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Tip: Take advantage of easy to install Patches in your hack. The No More Sprite Tile Limits patch should be considered if you're encountering glitches where Mario and/or sprites are turning invisible.Not logged in.
133: Reverse Universe - Aja
Forum Index - Events - Super Mario World Central Production 2 Completion Project - World 10 - 133: Reverse Universe - Aja
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Pages: « 1 2 3 » Link
Claimed by: aj6666

World: Bonus
Exits: 1
Theme: Abstract/Dream
Music Options: 1, 2, 3, or compose your own.

Briefing: Be as creative as you wish with this one, but try to make your area almost surreal/abstract/dream-like. The possibilities, quite literally, are endless here. Clever ExAnimation, neat graphical swaps, and more can go a long way to make these levels memorable and fun. These levels should be quite challenging as well, but fair.

Note that this does not mean you can dump a Kaizo level here and call it a day.
I've been wanting to have a world 9 level for quite a while now, and I've got some ideas in mind, so I'll claim this level if nobody else wants it.

Then it be yours. Make me proud.
:P
Layout by LDA during C3.
Well then, I guess I should start explaining what I have in mind.

Have you ever wondered what if things are not the way you think they are? Well then, you'd better start wondering if you haven't yet, because Mario will have to face the consequences of this.

This level will start as an ordinary grassland level with nothing special, at the beginning everything will be fine, until Mario decides to jump into the water and suddenly he notices everything has been reversed all the things around do the exact opposite they're supposed to do.

The level will be called "Reverse Universe", and as you probably guessed by now, the main gimmick will be reversion. The first segment will be short, probably no more than 3 or 4 screens, while the main segment will be taking most of what remains of the level, and I'll have a short final segment where everything goes back to normal and maybe I'll have a transition with the next level (depends on what the next level is going to be).

As I said, the main gimmick would be reversion and I want to apply this in every possible way. In the main segment, the controllers will be reversed, meaning you will have to press right if you want Mario to move left and vice-versa (I remember there was a sprite that could do this, but I can't seem to find it now); also, I'll use custom sprites that do the opposite of what they are supposed to do (like the inverted boo or the inverted thwomp, if you have any suggestions for this let me know), and I'll edit the graphics of some of the sprites so it will look like they are walking backwards, and I'm also planning to invert the palette (though if it looks too ugly I might think of something else).

For the graphics, I'll probably take one of the tilesets from world 1, I'll be inverting the palette anyway, so it won't be repetitive, as for the music, I'm not sure if I'll take one of the songs from the base ROM or request one, I would like to use a "dark" theme for this level.

I will be starting working on the level this weekend and I'll have something to show before Monday, for now, feel free to post any thoughts/feedback/suggestion you have.
This is an interesting idea, though I hope you can expand it beyond the simple control reversal gimmick. It sounds akin to Poisonous Pipeline from DKC3, which is nice .. but then again, it also sounds akin to Sinister Dungeon from SMWCP, which isn't as nice. Since you're actually making the level revolve around this gimmick, it may work better here than it did there.

...honestly, it's tough for me to say much at this point. It sounds good in theory, but so have a lot of other ideas which ultimately flopped. Good luck though - I'm hoping it turns out well.
When you say everything is reversed, do you mean that Mario's controls are also going to be reversed?

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I no longer have interest in SMW Hacking as I did when I first started several years ago.
Originally posted by TomPhanto
When you say everything is reversed, do you mean that Mario's controls are also going to be reversed?


Originally posted by aj666
the controllers will be reversed, meaning you will have to press right if you want Mario to move left and vice-versa
Originally posted by S.N.N.
Originally posted by TomPhanto
When you say everything is reversed, do you mean that Mario's controls are also going to be reversed?


Originally posted by aj666
the controllers will be reversed, meaning you will have to press right if you want Mario to move left and vice-versa


Now I see.

Well anyways, it's certainly a good gimmick for the first level, since a new player will have no idea what to expect the first time they enter World 9.

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I no longer have interest in SMW Hacking as I did when I first started several years ago.
If you're planning to use reversed controls, it might be best to have the effect be constant throughout the entire level rather than being something that flickers on and off, unless you can think of a good reason why reversed controls should change at times.

I can picture the reversal gimmicks can be taken to many levels beyond controls though. For example, maybe enemy roles could be swapped, or their normal behaviors altered into "reverse" patterns (such as the Anti-Boo, or a Swooper that rises instead of swoops down). Maybe items could behave differently too, possibly in misleading or even harmful ways?

Oh, and did I forgot to mention this level should involve going left instead of right?

As for the stage music... Abstract/Dream Stage 2 seems pretty dark in my opinion, but it sounded like you wanted something even darker...

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My Let's Play channel (Current LP: Final Fantasy VI, MegaMari)

Extras



I should have something witty to put here (even if it's just to update dated info), shouldn't I?

Advertising Space

Originally posted by Maxodex


We're not using any ports for this collab.

You know, I really don't see why you need the control reversal gimmick, especially if you're going to keep it in for an entire segment. Yes, it fits in with the theme of the level, but I doubt the level would suffer much if the controls were just kept the same way.
I would like to see the ideas GeminiRage suggested, but there's a whole lot you can do in this theme outside of simple control reversal - stage flipping? Gravity switching or something, and having to account for that? I'm getting images of what I think was the switch palace in :P:P:P, where everything but the on/off switches flipped when the on/off switches were pressed - but that's kinda one step removed from reversal (and probably fairly ASM-heavy), so tread that area of design carefully, if you decide to do stuff similar to that.

Hm. You could just go with something really abstract, or just rework the inverted palette of one of the world 1 levels into something decent-looking.
But yeah, good luck on this level. There's a lot of design potential here, and I'd really like to see what you come up with.

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harpy

tits


tumblr
You should use that thing that reverses the whole screen by Alcaro.
Don't remember if it was a sprite (likely) or a patch (less likely).

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Your layout has been removed.
Originally posted by S.N.N.
This is an interesting idea, though I hope you can expand it beyond the simple control reversal gimmick. It sounds akin to Poisonous Pipeline from DKC3, which is nice .. but then again, it also sounds akin to Sinister Dungeon from SMWCP, which isn't as nice. Since you're actually making the level revolve around this gimmick, it may work better here than it did there.

Well...actually I did like the sinister dungeon from SMWCP, but I'd say my idea closer to poisonous pipeline, since the controls will be reverted during all the level, they won't swap all the time.

Originally posted by TomPhanto
Well anyways, it's certainly a good gimmick for the first level, since a new player will have no idea what to expect the first time they enter World 9.

I don't think it this will be the first level of world 9, I remember S.N.N. said he would re-order the levels depending on the gimmick, so it will probably be placed at the end.

Originally posted by GeminiRage
If you're planning to use reversed controls, it might be best to have the effect be constant throughout the entire level rather than being something that flickers on and off, unless you can think of a good reason why reversed controls should change at times.

I can picture the reversal gimmicks can be taken to many levels beyond controls though. For example, maybe enemy roles could be swapped, or their normal behaviors altered into "reverse" patterns (such as the Anti-Boo, or a Swooper that rises instead of swoops down). Maybe items could behave differently too, possibly in misleading or even harmful ways?

Actually, that's exactly what I was planning, as I explained in the fourth paragraph. I'll be requesting some custom sprites like a reverse ninji or a reverse piranha plant. I didn't think of the swooper bat though, it sounds like a good idea, so I guess I'll request that too.

Originally posted by GeminiRage
Oh, and did I forgot to mention this level should involve going left instead of right?

This, in the other hand is something I didn't think about, but I like the idea, so I'll do it.

Originally posted by GeminiRage
As for the stage music... Abstract/Dream Stage 2 seems pretty dark in my opinion, but it sounded like you wanted
something even darker...
I listened to the song yesterday, and I think it sounds dark enough for the level, so I'll use it, unless somebody has a better suggestion.

Originally posted by Feenicks
You know, I really don't see why you need the control reversal gimmick, especially if you're going to keep it in for an entire segment. Yes, it fits in with the theme of the level, but I doubt the level would suffer much if the controls were just kept the same way.
I would like to see the ideas GeminiRage suggested, but there's a whole lot you can do in this theme outside of simple control reversal - stage flipping? Gravity switching or something, and having to account for that? I'm getting images of what I think was the switch palace in :P:P:P, where everything but the on/off switches flipped when the on/off switches were pressed - but that's kinda one step removed from reversal (and probably fairly ASM-heavy), so tread that area of design carefully, if you decide to do stuff similar to that.

Originally posted by Leod
You should use that thing that reverses the whole screen by Alcaro.
Don't remember if it was a sprite (likely) or a patch (less likely).

I don't want to use ON/OFF gimmick because I think those are quite overused now, and I want to have a gimmick that last through the whole level, not just some parts of it. About the gravity reversion thing, I think I'll go with Leod's suggestion and use that patch, however, I just CTRL+F Alcaro's name in the sprites and patches and I also looked in Alcaro's files section and I didn't find anything so it would be nice if you could provide a link.

Edit: I had less homework than what I expected, so I decided to start working on the gimmick. Here is a video of some sprites walking backwards, a reverted bullet bill and a mirrored P-Switch (I'm not sure if I'll use it though).

Also, disabling layout because of big super mega giant post.
Originally posted by aj6666
I just CTRL+F Alcaro's name in the sprites and patches and I also looked in Alcaro's files section and I didn't find anything so it would be nice if you could provide a link.

I think you're thinking of this one. It's not hard to make it not use the on/off switch, you just need to replace a RAM address.
Note that it's a relatively heavyweight patch. It requires $0CB5 bytes for me, and SNN said he's worried about running out of freespace. However, it will work fine in banks $40+.
Also note that it only affects graphics. To flip gravity, you need a much more complex patch. I think MarioE tried making this, but I don't know what happened to it.


In case you're bored: Find the two instances of LSR A STA $00 BCC +, replace the BCCs with BCS, turn on the flipping address, and create vertical scroll of one pixel per second or less (I suggest a "tornado jump" with the cape).

Then grab a backup of your ROM.

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<blm> zsnes users are the flatearthers of emulation
It pretty much looks like it reverses gravity for absolutely everything, so yeah (not sure where aj read "reverse gravity" in my post though).

Also that reverse gravity thing MarioE made is already in the ROM and used in one or two levels.

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Your layout has been removed.
Originally posted by Alcaro
I think you're thinking of this one. It's not hard to make it not use the on/off switch, you just need to replace a RAM address.
Note that it's a relatively heavyweight patch. It requires $0CB5 bytes for me, and SNN said he's worried about running out of freespace. However, it will work fine in banks $40+.

Well, I'm not sure if I should insert a heavy patch just for one level, so maybe I won't use it, it's not really essential anyway. I'll think about it.

In other news, I have finished the inverted palette, here's a screenshot:


(Note that is just test level I did, this won't be an actual fragment of the level).

The FG is from world 1, and the base palette (the palette which had the colors I inverted) is from Grinder Grasslands; the BG is a blatant edit of the one WYE did for his level, and the base palette was a green gradient I made. Personally I though the inverted palette would look way uglier than this (actually it doesn't look bad except for the white outlines) so I'll keep it this way. Mario's palette is not inverted because he's not part of the reverse world, even if it still has some effects on him.

Now, if I could find that sprite that reverts the controllers...
Make the level so the player goes right to left. I also think that the palettes are ugly as can be. Just saying.
Originally posted by Pikerchu13
Make the level so the player goes right to left. I also think that the palettes are ugly as can be. Just saying.


Try to make a Negative palette that doesn't look "ugly". Outright color inversions are going to turn out strange no matter how they looked originally, it's just our human nature to perceive such a thing as bizarre or even ugly, because it just isn't normal.

Besides, this is the Abstract/Dream world, where nothing is truly normal.

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My Let's Play channel (Current LP: Final Fantasy VI, MegaMari)
Well, without altering the graphics, it'd be pretty hard. But with a couple adjustments, I could probably make it work. Especially with a different sky color.
Pages: « 1 2 3 » Link
Forum Index - Events - Super Mario World Central Production 2 Completion Project - World 10 - 133: Reverse Universe - Aja

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