Originally posted by AxemJinxThe first time I saw this enemy, I had no idea what it would do, and then it promptly jumped on top of me. Does the first one you encounter have to have the high ground in a relatively narrow space?
Normally, I'm a very strong proponent of non-instantaneously harmful sprite introductions, but I could not resist violating this rule here, as this particular one is intended to startle the player (hence the lack of any enemies at all before it). I actually tried moving the first one out in the open, but the effect was...just not the same. And while the player will probably get hit by it the first time, I imagine they'll be laughing when it happens, and in any case, there's a mushroom right before, anyway, so it won't be instantly fatal.
Quote7: Why is the bottom half of the arrow sign solid? I can accept strange happenings in this level, but this sticks out to me.
Simple Map 16 goof there when I was fixing the palette issues mentioned in an earlier post.
QuoteOverall: Why are players limited to mushrooms in the first section? There are plenty of things to get used to, and half of the enemies don't even die, so if anything, this would be the section to give players a bit more leeway. I guess that's just me, though.
Atmospheric reasons, mostly--all the blocks are fake, so the powerups are all simply lying around. It also gives it a touch of a more desperate feel--as I mentioned, I wanted the intro to be short and intense, with the (pre-midpoint) second section being longer, but a little more relaxed, as fits the subdued, flowing æsthetic. I could throw in another hidden powerup if you like, but the section's pretty short to begin with, so I wonder if that might not be shifting things a touch
too[ far...
Quote4, right: Another instance of the first encounter being in a potentially dangerous spot. If you guessed that these enemies will act like swoopers, congratulations! Otherwise...
I didn't really think that was all too dangerous a spot, but I'll see what I can do about making the first one more demonstrative in function.
Quote6: Probably just my personal bias, but balancing on short steep slopes while waiting for a boo circle? Blegh.
I tried to arrange that so the player, if moving at a steady pace, is less likely to have to wait for very long, but obviously that doesn't occur in any instance. Of course, personally, I'd take having to precariously balance over just standing around (which unfortunately seems to be a more common way of using said circles) any day.
Quote7, 9: These spots felt like EEEs to me- I never seemed to have much time to dodge as I landed on the platforms.
It tends to be a good deal easier if you spin jump, which tends to be my own personal reaction around large numbers of Eeries. It might not be a bad idea to widen the stationary platform on screen 09 a tile, though...
QuoteF: If you want to force a fire flower, perhaps you could just use the sprite version? What if players hit both blocks back to back?
I considered that, but the sprite memory issues in that section made it gafloigle. Separating the blocks a tile was my attempt to compensate for overzealous block-hitting, but I can see how particularly impetuous players might be thwarted even then. In any case, the Extended No Sprite Tile Limits patch should probably allow the sprite version to appear properly.
Quote11-1E: This may have just been my experience, but this entire section felt pretty luck-based. Sometimes I almost never got hit, sometimes I couldn't avoid getting hit repeatedly. Traveling below swooping ghosts is one thing, but traveling in the midst of them? You also have a couple of stationary flames, which definitely looks confusing among all the moving ones.
Luck definitely plays a role here, and the entire section is definitely decidedly unorthodox, but I wanted to do a sort of conceptually unreasonable (but in practice not really that bad at all) section in this level (think of various parts of Thirdspace in TSRPR, though perhaps a bit less ridiculous than that), ending the bonus world as it is. I also really, really wanted to try to use the rarely seen boo ceiling in a decidedly different manner, including making use of the "floor" part and forcing the player to travel directly through the swarm. The whole thing's definitely supposed to seem like an all-out assault on the player, though in practice it's really not as demanding as it seems at first, especially once you get the rhythm down. As for the stationary flames, I've been considering making them a slightly different color in order to avoid visual confusion.
Quote10: Just my opinion here, but I think these enemies spit blue flame way too infrequently. I find myself waiting in anticipation just so I don't make a hasty jump and get hit, which gets pretty irritating after a while.
I agree; the Grey Snifit sprite is definitely in need of some tweaking, both in this respect and in its inability to turn around when Mario is behind it (more on that later). I may make a post in the resource request thread to see if any of our coders might be willing to solve these issues (well, I could probably change the firing interval myself, but it's probably a good thing to make "official").
QuoteB/C, left: Don't you think you're asking players to repeat a little too much here? Why not add a platform in midair so players can immediately return to the note blocks?
I'm actually surprised you're the first one to mention this; I expected this section to be a good deal more controversial than it seems to have been. I may well do exactly what you propose here.
QuoteB-A: Footballs on single note blocks that always seem to have the high ground? To me, this is the epitome of luck-based platforming. Take it from someone who's really overused footballs in the past. On top of that, you have to go through all of it- and the next few screens besides- with a single powerup if you start from the midway point.
I actually wanted to use the flame-spitting variant here, but their inability to turn around made this impractical. Again, another reason to make that request.
Quote3-2: As I implied before, the note block path is much, much easier.
I actually made the other side harder because it was originally so much
easier than the noteblock path. I had indeed suspected that I had shifted too far in the other direction, and was considering tossing another element into the noteblock path to shake things up a bit, but I was unsure how much trouble other people would have with the noteblocks compared to me, the designer, who necessarily has a skewed view of things. But it's good to have it confirmed that this would be worth doing.
QuoteOther: Almost forgot- it's kind of odd that question blocks crumble in the first section but act normally afterward.
Every section has its own specific little quirks; the crumbling blocks are one of the gimmicks of the first section, which is generally twisted and decayed--the other sections aren't, though, and thus don't have this feature (though they have their own quirks). The one thrown in at the top of the tower serves as a bit of a joke; after traveling through the rest of the level with all normal blocks (and thus having semi-forgotten about their presence in the first section) the player runs into one again at the end, making it once more a bit of a surprise.
QuoteAlso, the fact that the Luigi sprite is just a red elite reskin, on top of the "boss" after that, makes it feel like a double letdown. I almost feel like the Luigi sprite should be a boss all its own (though that would encourage the use of four midway points), so as to emphasize the irony of the second fight while still giving players something to chew on.
I'd love that idea, provided we have enough free sprite slots in the end. Of course, it basically
had to be a reskin in this version, since I, ah, cannot code sprites at all.
QuoteThe second boss's "upgrade" gives me a
Tyrian vibe, actually- interesting. I don't think you even need that fight, though I suppose removing it would also mean removing the "TNK" suspense buildup.
Oh, lordy, yes, it's necessary. The post-Luigi section is actually my favorite part of the level; it's a sort of parade of steadily-increasing bizarreness, which seems a good way to end the final normal level of the dream world. As you may have noticed from my other level, I'm very, very keen on combining darkly atmospheric and patently absurd elements, and for the end of the bonus world, this really seemed the only logical way to go. It also ties into the idea that our most terrifying nightmares are often really quite ridiculous when viewed objectively, but that doesn't stop them from having their fear-inducing effect when our subconscious runs away with us.
QuoteStill...now that I've actually seen it, that whole section seems pretty nonsequiturish to me. I was more interested in the dreamlike Luigi character, personally. I'd even go so far to say this might make a good final level/ final boss (essentially nullifying the question of whether we need a separate boss level) if we make something more complex out of the Luigi character and cut out everything after that.
Pionpi Luigi is great fun, but honestly, he has more than a touch of the sort of cliché, "The boss is Mario's worst nightmare, which is himself!/fear of his brother's resentment!/yackity-yackity-yoo!" business I'd really,
really prefer to avoid ending the dream world with. Also, he's pretty obviously a construct created to screw with Mario--as witnessed by the fact that he
is a bit cliché--which is why I thought it imperative to bring in Mr. Dee-Bay (not to be confused with Frank above me) as the man behind the curtain. That said...
Someone suggested making the final phase of the Norveg battle (one all robots and the like are eliminated) such that the boss doesn't actively attack, and goes down in a single hit. Well, one idea I had for the bonus boss which I developed earlier concurrent with my earlier, controversial Ascended Deedle-Ball idea was to do an impressive and fun-to-battle but semi-cliché boss (originally conceived of as a Kirby's Superstar Computer Virus-type foe, as was suggested far earlier, but Pionpi Luigi would probably work even better, since he's rather more interesting and fits better into the world already), yet follow things up with a "Wait, this thing's clearly not acting by itself--who's
really behind all this?", whereupon the Deedle-Ball would be revealed as the self-proclaimed evil mastermind, followed by the joke battle seen here as the final phase. This would allow us to do something like the idea described above, only instead of diminishing our primary antagonist, we use a clearly comedic, self-important character who woefully overestimates his own abilities in this role, which strikes me as considerably more appropriate. So if someone wanted to do a properly epic Pionpi Luigi boss, perhaps followed by a shout of "I'm sorry, Master! I've faaaailed yooooou!" or something and a shocking, Deedly conclusion, I'd be all for that--though I suspect that the same folks who didn't like the other Deedle-based denouement I suggested probably wouldn't like that idea much better. So in that case, I think it'd be best if we left him as a sort of mini-boss, though if someone wanted to code a proper sprite for him (perhaps with some will-o'-the-wisp-based attacks), that'd be pretty groovy, too.
And as for level names, I think "Fear the Sphere" (or "FEAR THE SPHERE") is the obvious way to go.