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World 10 Boss: Dreamer -
Forum Index - Events - Super Mario World Central Production 2 Completion Project - World 10 - World 10 Boss: Dreamer -
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Briefing: The proposed boss for this level is the Dreamer. Name, Design and Attacks have not been finalized yet. Preferred to have some sort of Abstract/Dream theme to match World 9's theme.

Proposed Idea:
Originally posted by Magiluigi
So yeah, here goes...
I'll show the battle arena layout already:

(Please excuse the poor artwork).
Now to explain the symbols at the top:
Each one represents one emotion, the first one is happiness, the second, mischief, the third, perplexion, the fourth is sadness and the last one is anger. Each one looks like a smiley if you look at it at the right angle. So, when the boss is at its normal state, none of these appear in the BG, but when it changes to one of the emotions, these appear in the BG and it also changes color to match the emotion (if it's happy, the grey thunderclouds chage to yellow, when it's angry, they change to orange-ish red and so on). These symbols could also appear during each phase so they don't look out of place when they appear during the battle.

You see, the dreamer herself is in the BG while the boss is on the FG. That's because you won't battle the dreamer's physical form, but a manifestation of her powers, it's what she looks like in her world, some sort of "goddess form" (I think somebody suggested that), and since the only one able to hurt the dreamer is the dreamer herself, you actually have to throw something at the goddess dreamer so she accidentally throws it to the background right on her physical form's face.

You can see the ground is actually scrolling layer 2, maybe it can be a normal BG and layer 2 interaction can be enabled with level ASM (so it'll be an uniform repeated pattern).

Another idea I have is for the BG to undulate more chaotically the weaker the dreamer gets, but I think that'd be too much work.
Also I love ShadowFire's introduction idea, I think it can be done like this: There's the beautiful sunny sky, then it turns pitch black and two thunderbolts strike, during this interval, the layer 3 BG tileset can change (I think that can be achieved with DMA or something iirc) and then it fades back again, now stormy (like the Demise battle in TLoZ: Skyward Sword).

I haven't thought of any attacks, though, the only one I did think of was a thunderbolt attack, in which she summons thunderbolts that try to strike where the player is, and after all the normal strikes, she summons a chain of them in set spots (just like Ballos [Cave Story] does in his first form). Also, I believe that can be achieved with cluster sprites.

If you don't want a "goddess dreamer" to be the boss, everything can be done just fine, except she'll be summoning stuff with her mind and you'll have to throw stuff at the BG (was I clear here?).

I can try designing the dreamer's goddess form... if you want.
It should be a mix of all levels...
It shots poison candies (Candy Calamity) , can be attacked only when shows you a lolface (Euphoric Emience) , can walk upside down (Reverse Universe).
All at the moment.
I don't even know if world 9 will need a boss. It depends on how the last level (Rameau's Nephew's) plays out I guess. I want to get the other eight done first before thinking about this one, at lest.
Well, I've designed my level to work either with or without a proper bonus boss, but if it is ultimately decided that we should have one, man, have I got a proposal for you folks. Oh, but we'll save that for the appropriate time...
In case this world ends up having a boss... what about "Norveg Soul"? Kind of got this idea from Kirby games, since almost every final boss has a "soul" form, and they're always pretty epic... also instead of using mechanical attacks, it would use attacks more related to the "magic" side. Just a random idea...

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Well, his level kinda revolves around the idea of what would happen If Norveg got his way and took over the world. May be an evil version of Mario(brain-washed, robot, shadow, etc) could be the final boss?
Layout by LDA during C3.
I quite support the 'Mario' idea Lightvayne suggested. Not only is it a unique boss idea, it's also something abstract and unexpected, which is what world 9 is all about.
I'm really quite against said idea, it seems like a horribly cliché boss in my opinion, and probably something every 11 year old person dreams of making (no offense) at some point.
It just seems.. uncreative? "Lame"?

Just my opinion of course.

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Your layout has been removed.
Originally posted by leod
I'm really quite against said idea, it seems like a horribly cliché boss in my opinion, and probably something every 11 year old person dreams of making (no offense) at some point.
It just seems.. uncreative? "Lame"?

Just my opinion of course.

I agree. It's an overused cliché indeed.

That's not to say I really have any ideas either. How about just making the boss an abstract, undefinable being that attacks using abstract shapes representing things lightning, fire, ice, etcetera, and calling it a day? Been playing Mother 3 lately, and the abstract attack graphics are pretty cool looking.
Originally posted by Lightvayne
May be an evil version of Mario(brain-washed, robot, shadow, etc) could be the final boss?


*Cue TLMB and his secretly developed idea for final boss final that he was planning since reading the plot thread initially*

Bosses Name: Norveg's Dream
Form: Larger robotic version of Mario

Backstory (at least the one I stemmed this out from):

This being the dream world, it'd be a most fitting end if it was left to the dream Norveg had before Mario stopped his evil manifestation of the world/Mushroom Kingdom. As Norveg initially carried out his plans, all his dreams consisted of Himself being a powerful ruler in an industrialized world he created. This was all he wanted of course, until MArio came into the picture...

As Mario traveled throughout the land in his quest to defeat Norveg, his actions haven't gone unnoticed to the ever-watchful eyes of Norveg from his headquarters. As insurance to make sure his plan succeeded, Norveg consulted with Dr. Croc about this opposing force and how to eliminate any chance of impedance on his dream. Immediately, Dr. Croc spent numerous hours of research on how Mario has dealt with his past enemies (and current ones such as the bosses) then put his data to the lab. Through many trials, models, and test builds (one of these test builds could be found in Pyro-cyro Castle, that robot thing that's only decoration), Dr. Croc finally composed a written proposal of a machine that would truly eliminate Mario once and for all. He takes the document to Norveg, who agrees to the schematic with a devilish grin on his face. In a matter of seconds, both were in shock when an intruder alarm sets off within the factory. Norveg calls security to hear what is the current situation at hand, and curses the world to hear that Mario is within the factory's vicinity. He orders Dr. Croc if the emergency factory defense was fully functional, Dr. Croc reluctantly says yes and warns him of the possible repercussions of using it, as it was only for emergency. Croc suggests that he will go take care of Mario himself with his more dangerous, less destructive machines.

*cue everything that happens between World 7 and after Mario defeats Norveg*

After Mario defeats Norveg in a battle of epic proportions, he sets things right and stops any possible advancement of Norveg's plans. Shattered by the realization of the event and that his dream dream dies here; Frustration, Rage, and vengeance infest his mind and corrupt the dead dream with a simple idea, the end of Mario.

Norveg defeated/locked-up somewhere, Mario felt pretty confident his quest was over, this was until he reached the mock bonus world. In there, he learns that even though he defeated Norveg and stop all possible advancements of his industrialization, the factories remain are still being powered by some unnatural force. So MArio travels to the abstract/dream world to find the source of this energy and shut it down.

After going through the trails of dreams that were laid in front of him, Mario enters an area created by Norveg's mind. Entering it, he hears a voice very familiar, but sounds as a mix of 2 different people (Norveg's and Mario's). Going through a hallway containing many dreamt images created in Norveg's mind, he enters a throne room and is shocked to see who was sitting on the throne staring back at him. It was himself.

Mario demands an explanation of what's going on here, and the doppelganger willing agrees to explain the phenomena at hand. He states that he is a manifestation of Norveg's dream to power, that Norveg's desire was too strong for it to die when all hope was lost for Norveg to advance. The ideas of industrialization and vengeance on Mario provided enough... motivational energy to come into being, based all upon the proposal created by Dr. Croc. This energy continued to multiple for it to keep all the factories back in the world running, as it fed the dreams possibility to exist. The Dream chuckles about the force producing himself in a resembling form as the one he hates the most for attempting to stop its coming to life. He laughs even harder as he states that it is definitely most fitting that Mario is eliminated by his own hands.

Structure of Battle: 3 phases, one midpoint after each phase

First Phase (weakest phase):
The Dream attacks Mario the normal way Mario attacks anything, by running and jumping. Takes 3 stomps to defeat.

Second Phase (The destructive one): The Dream unleashes his power to the fullest extent. It utilizes all forms of Mario (regular, Super, Fire, Feather).

-midpoint-

Regular- This form is the vulnerable form that Mario needs to get the Dream to in order to deal damage to him, but even in this state it won't be as easy as said. This form is also the most dexterous form of the Dream, allowing it to make swift movements in an attempt to ram into Mario. A stomp on the head is all that is needed. To be fair, It stays in this form until the player damages him, time limits are no fun (right Atma?).

Super- With Bigger size comes more power, such as the ability to break blocks with a spin jump. This form takes the spin jump and spams it to bounce around the ground, causing debris to fall with each impact. (To be fair, the earthquake won't stun Mario). To shrink the dream, as it chases you, you'll have to make debris fall on it's head.

Fire- This is where it's Robotic Nature comes to its advantage. The dream utrns its arms into cannons and fire blasts of flame. What's even more dangerous about this form is that it teleports with each blast. (Think of Marx's teleportation pattern from Kirby Super Star). At one point he so fast that there are 3 images of him that each of them fire a blast directed at Mario. After this attack, the Robot is overheated to the point it shrinks by itself.

Cape- I'm not entirely sure what attacks this form would have. Blasts of wind? Spinning in place and firing mini-tornadoes? Flying off-screen and dive bombing the land below? Throw in a suggestion or something.

4-5 hits? Each hit dedicated to a specific phase, First Regular, the Super->Regular, Fire->Regular, Cape->Regular.

-midpoint-

Final Phase (Let's give Yoshi some love):
The battle is taken to the sky as N's Dream rides a mechanized yoshi while Mario tails behind it with a flying Yoshi (that he is unable to dismount). The Dream fires missile and flames at Mario while the M. Yoshi drops floating egg mines as it flies. Mario would have Yoshi lick the mines and spit them back out at the Dream to damage it. 5 hits to finish the battle once and for all. (What'd be cool for this phase would be to have a song from the second phase of the battle but with a bongo added to the mix, plus a crazy dream-like BG with scrolling.

After defeating the dream, all the factories die from life and the world is once again completely safe. MArio then receives a power-up that acts as a 'god mode' (Allowing double jumps, switching between power-up statuses inlevel).

And that My take on the Idea of a Robot Mario, sorry for any uncreativeness this post has.

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I wonder what a HFD opcode would do in ASM...
Now, now, folks, let's not get ahead of ourselves. In the meantime, why not better familiarize yourselves with some of the levels in this world?

I love TLMB's idea and personally would love to see it go in that direction.
Layout by LDA during C3.
We already had a "Yoshi appears in the final battle" thing once and decided that it felt totally out of place and arbitrary.
Where does the Yoshi come from so suddenly, inside the arch-nemesis' own territory? Why does it have wings, and since when do those stay permanently? Why would Yoshi suddenly play a major part in the hack when he only appears half a dozen times?

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Your layout has been removed.
I personally agree with TLMB, it would be really cool to see good old Yoshi during the fight. I was SERIOUSLY disappointed that he was absent from SMG2's final battle, so it would be cool to see him here. Also, leod, Yoshi ALWAYS appears out of nowhere. Mario logic ftw.
As much as I like TLMB's idea, I think we shouldn't go with something as complex as the final boss from SMWCP1. If we're going to make a boss like that, then it should give powerups at some points of the fight, otherwise it might be extremely hard to beat him without savestates/rewinds.
Originally posted by aj6666
As much as I like TLMB's idea, I think we shouldn't go with something as complex as the final boss from SMWCP1. If we're going to make a boss like that, then it should give powerups at some points of the fight, otherwise it might be extremely hard to beat him without savestates/rewinds.


That's exactly why I included midpoints throughout the boss battle, of course that may not always be fool proof. Everything I typed was just a proposed design for how the battle would be played out, I welcome suggestions to it or even suggestions of another boss that may be even more awesome than my highly technical one. If needed, we could always throw in an idea on how Mario could get a power-up, like when the Dream gets powered down Mario gets the item it lost in a reserve or something.

However, I wouldn't compare this boss to the final boss of SMWCP, which was a bunch of randomness thrown everywhere. You couldn't easily tell how to hurt the boss, or even what you needed to do at some points. This fight simply focuses on one main enemy.

To be honest, I kinda surprised you asked such questions LeOdD about Yoshi, since logic doesn't apply far into Mario games (especially with plot twists). The answer to these questions are simple too :P

Originally posted by LeOdD
Where does the Yoshi come from so suddenly, inside the arch-nemesis' own territory? Why does it have wings, and since when do those stay permanently? Why would Yoshi suddenly play a major part in the hack when he only appears half a dozen times?


In SMW, there is an item box which contains wings that Yoshi could collect to gain the ability to fly. It could be said that Yoshi felt he needed to help Mario out since he wasn't around that many times, so he hit an item box he found (Yoshi can do that in this hack, since we have a level entirely dedicated to playing as Yoshi), collected the wings and flew to Mario's aid. Just a bit of creativity is needed with the sources given to us to answer these types of weird things.

Originally posted by R's N
In the meantime, why not better familiarize yourselves with some of the levels in this world?

I think we don't really need to in order to create a boss for the dream world, dreams don't need to be consistent with what happened earlier.

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I wonder what a HFD opcode would do in ASM...
Originally posted by TLMB
To be honest, I kinda surprised you asked such questions LeOdD about Yoshi, since logic doesn't apply far into Mario games (especially with plot twists).

I was just surprised that you didn't say anything bout that stuff, while you had the rest laid out in detail right up there in that huge post.
Even then, your explanation is pretty much lackluster IMO (those wings canonically make Yoshi skyrocket into the sky, until he lands on a bridge in space/a place with a starry night background with floating, rude (see: Paper Mario) fuzzballs all over the place) and I still hate the idea of a robot Mario but what can I do, the fight's mechanics don't sound too bad.

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Your layout has been removed.
To be honest, I don't like any Mario idea for this boss as well. Even if he was a giant robot, it still is a battle where "Mario" will be attacking Mario.

The obvious direction to go in would be anything mechanical, as Norveg is all "lol nature sucks letz kill it". But, let's not get ahead of ourselves.

Maybe it can go with a nightmare type of creature, as this battle is in the DREAM/abstract would, and most of the levels look extremely happy. Why can't we have something corrupting those dreams?

This nightmare boss could have three phases. Two of the phases take place in a darker version of the two happiest levels in this world (the candy one and the one by MagiLuigi?). The third phase will be in just a void of darkness, I guess (or somewhere else, if you can give me better ideas).

This is just an idea. I have no idea what his attacks will be, or what he will look like, but I just thought the idea was a little unique.

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Just back here to browse a bit.
Whatever happened to this guy?


I don't quite remember what Ludus originally made him for, but I believe it was this world.

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Your layout has been removed.
I think I know what Rameau's Nephew has in mind for a boss and let me tell you I'd probably be 99% behind it.
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Forum Index - Events - Super Mario World Central Production 2 Completion Project - World 10 - World 10 Boss: Dreamer -

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