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Trailer vs. gameplay video?
Forum Index - Events - Super Mario World Central Production 2 Completion Project - SMWCP2 Archive - Trailer vs. gameplay video?
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Yes, I did, and I assume the others did, too. We just wanted to reinforce that too many trailers could hamper, rather than help, this project.
Since the hack is around a couple of months from completion, I'll agree that it wouldn't be good to have too many trailers. Two seems like a fair amount at this point. I'd say that the first could be a non-gameplay teaser using the narrative recording that Camerin made. It would just announce the game it's self, and some of the general details about it, kinda like what Sonic 4 did with it's first trailer. Then, the second one could have gameplay footage (though, it wouldn't have any World 9 levels or any other secrets/late game spoilers), and would be shown around a few weeks before the official release.

Though, if we do go with the gameplay videos, we probably shouldn't show every level. Maybe pick one or two from each world and show a 10-20 second clip from each (not including World 9, of course).

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I agree with what everyone is saying, that we should have a maximum of three to four trailers, but I also think that might be overkill. Depending on how it is done, if we have four trailers showing off a fraction 7-8 different levels, then your going to have a lot of gameplay already. The main purpose of the trailer is to intrigue the viewer, to create anxiety, and if too much gameplay is shown out of all the trailers, the anxiety is diminished exponentially.

I must say that I REALLY like Karatekid5's idea of having a Sonic 4 type trailer system, that seems most efficient.

We could have gameplay videos after the full release is out, isn't that what most games do? I don't remember valve or nintendo posting official videos of entire levels until after the game could be bought/obtained.

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Hmm. . . not sure what to say so I'll just stop talking. . .

Honestly, I don't see the need for a lot of trailers. It's not like we are going to showcase every pre-World 8 level in the hack... are we? I'd say two trailers should be enough if that is the case, but the question is, how will we decide on them...

I guess we could have a theme with each trailer. Like one trailer shows off the various industrializations that Norveg Industries has created throughout the worlds (as it is a theme prevelant in many levels of the hack), while another trailer could have the more "natural" or "happy" looking levels not polluted with steel works.

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My Let's Play channel (Current LP: Final Fantasy VI, MegaMari)
Originally posted by GeminiRage
I guess we could have a theme with each trailer. Like one trailer shows off the various industrializations that Norveg Industries has created throughout the worlds (as it is a theme prevelant in many levels of the hack), while another trailer could have the more "natural" or "happy" looking levels not polluted with steel works.

No, put both in one trailer, slap dubstep music on it and at the drop it's suddenly all polluted!! I like ZSNES.

Seriously every second game I play these days does that olo

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Originally posted by leod
No, put both in one trailer, slap dubstep music on it and at the drop it's suddenly all polluted!! I like ZSNES.

You know, when I said that, I actually put tags around the "I like zsnes" that said "[Sarcasm, you dipshit]", but they were in html comments, the zsnes part was just meant as an example. That said, I like your version better, and will be using it in the future.
I prefer one long trailer instead of multiple divided ones for two reasons.
1: The viewer won't have to search for all of them.
2: More content gives more satisfaction to the viewer and makes the viewer want more.

What should we have in the trailer? Well, if you're insistent on wanting a narrator, maybe we could have it similar to this, or this. In other words, have the narrator be sarcastic, smart, and witty. While there's a narrator talking, show off the hack.
Also, lol.

EDIT: If we're not having a narrator, then let's make it like the New Super Mario Bros. Wii trailer. It shows gameplay, shows off some features of the game, and it's Mario-ish. This IS a Mario hack, so this could work.
I'm not sure I like the idea of having narration- it seems to take away from the sense of accomplishment at achieving something so unprecedented, as if it's not taking itself seriously enough. That's just me, though.

What I'm wondering about now is the musical accompaniment- should we crossfade between one representative song each from the worlds we show, for example, or use one theme throughout the whole video? If the latter, should we use one of the themes we've already made, or compose a new one (or an arrangement of an existing one) just for the trailer?

I remember someone mentioning five second intervals for each snippet, but personally I'm thinking around ten seconds would be better- it gives viewers more time to digest each piece, and prevents us from having to show too many levels. We could even show more than one clip for some of the levels- viewers won't know levels have multiple clips since they haven't played the game yet, and we can give the illusion that we're revealing more than we are, in a sense.

In any case, I don't know when we were planning on actually recording this, but seeing as a couple of levels were just dropped, I think it's still a bit too early to do anything yet. I actually think we're more than two months away from completion here, especially when you consider the overworld, level order, final tweaking, beta testing, and what have you. I don't want to post a major trailer only to go dormant for half a year. Since we don't get the same exposure as commercial games do (as it seems to me), I feel like our publicity has to be a bit more tightly clustered and timed correctly.

Of course, we could go the multiple trailers route, but if that's the case, we should probably start setting up some sort of timeline. How many trailers? How much time between them? When do we start? What do we do if we encounter delays?



If we do one trailer, I think we should record when we're partway through overworld construction. There'll be less uncertainty about when things will finish than there is for levels at that point, i.e. a lower chance of delays. There are around 80-90 levels (?), so we could pick around a dozen to showcase with a collection of ten-second clips. That saves plenty of levels for further trailers if we encounter delays.

Levels I would avoid are the first/last level (don't want to spoil the introduction/ending) and World 9 (keeps the endgame unfamiliar).

Things I think we should showcase:
-One or two levels on secret paths (but not in World 8/9), so if viewers "finish" the game without seeing them, they'll know they haven't found everything.
-One boss, to demonstrate what we're capable of.
-One switch palace, to show that they're actually levels.
-One or two oriental/carnival levels- between the tilesets and mechanics, there's a lot to show off in Worlds 3/5
-A couple of industrial levels, to communicate those overtones

Specific levels I would suggest:

Velocity Valves- Shows off the industrial overtones, has fun bouncy mechanics
Countdown Chamber- Has a cave section with the switch palace tileset at the end, so we can show how the switch palaces start outside at first and work their way in
Lily Swamp Romp- Drips with atmosphere, has plenty of unique-looking things like the lilies, ravens, and bubbles
Treetop Tussle- A bit more on the familiar side (for balance), and its length allows us to use more than one clip
Tourou Temple- Showcases a really nice tileset combo, not to mention a very noticeable boat section; this one would draw attention quickly
Beach Ball Brawl- Again, I think the large beach balls would draw attention
Sunset Split, for similar reasons to Treetop Tussle
Coaster Calamity, to show off the carnival world and the roller coaster mechanics
Cumulus Chapel, for its sense of atmosphere
Shivering Cinders- shows the fire/ice duality, and its length allows for more than one clip
Frostflow Freezer- the snowball chase would be an excellent way to end the trailer
Chilly Colors- The rainbow aesthetic will draw attention, especially because this is a Mario game
Musical Mechanisms- Like Velocity Valves, shows off the industrial theme and has novel mechanics

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Now I'm kind of leaning towards AxemJinx's idea there, especially given his level suggestions. The more I've read this thread, the more I've thought that as interesting as a few trailers may be, they won't really hit home like one really awesome trailer would. It might also be wise to get the title screen done first too, that way we can end the trailer with a shot of it and a "Coming Soon" message or something. We did that with SMWCP and it seemed to work nicely.

Hmm .. it might be cool to actually compose a unique theme for this trailer (once it is done) that mixes in a bit of each of the levels being showcased. That is, basically a giant remix of several of the tracks used in the hack. Just a thought.
Something like the credits theme from Sonic & Knuckles or from Sonic 2, for example? I think that would be really nice, actually- it gives us a chance to show off a lot of the music, too.

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Just jumping in to say that I think AxemJinx's proposal will probably give you guys the best results. Along the lines of the amount of trailers created, I think having one very good trailer will probably be more effective than several (even if they are all of high-quality).

tatanga
Also start the trailer with that W1-Intro cutscene thing Kipernal was doing.

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What Axem stated is pretty much the best way to go. Why create a bunch of trailers when we can simply create one really good trailer that showcases some key aspects of the hack (tilesets, level themes, transitions, and a couple gimmicks)? The only argument I can see against this is that a lot of levels wouldn't get showcased, but I would honestly prefer it this way. We wouldn't want to spoil too many of the levels on trailers, as it would remove a lot of the excitement for players entering the next level, something that a lot of us as designers would prefer to keep.

As atmospheric as Rusted Retribution is, I'd prefer the dilapidated sector comes to the player as something of a surprise than something they might've seen beforehand.

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My Let's Play channel (Current LP: Final Fantasy VI, MegaMari)
I like AxemJinx's idea, except that I think 10-second snippets are too long. The point about avoiding revealing too many levels is fair, but how about this?

- 5-second trailer from level A.
- 5-second trailer from level B.
- 5-second trailer from Level C.
- 5-second trailer from level D.
- 5 more seconds from level B.
- 5-second trailer from level E.
- 5 more seconds from level A.
- 5 more seconds from level C.
- 5-second trailer from level F.
- 5 more seconds from level D.
- 5 more seconds from level B.
- 5 more seconds from level A.

...This pattern could be modified depending on how long we want the trailer.

Ten seconds at a time seems like too long. We should showcase ten seconds of material from various levels, but in five-second intervals. Not only will this add a bit more variety to the trailer, but it could also let us show off different snippets from the same level that we could not show with ten striaght gameplay seconds.

I still think narration could work, but it could be limited to the start of the trailer (which was actually my intent all along).

As for music...depending on when the recording will take place, I could write something.
Perhaps I'm misjudging how much you can show in five seconds. Looking at the SMWCP trailer, that might be fine.

I'm not comfortable with narration unless I'm comfortable with the script and the voice that's performing it. I don't want this to end up like SMWCP1's cutscenes.

Originally posted by Camerin
Bear in mind that for the actual trailer, my work will be a bit more...polished.

So we're just supposed to have faith that we'll like what we hear when the time comes? That's not good enough for me. Granted, if everyone's fine with that sample, I'll acquiesce, but personally, I want to see what you're really capable of first. The script/performance in that sample seems a little too...cheesy. For me, anyway.


Originally posted by Camerin
"From the makers of A Super Mario World Central Production,"

Are you sure we should make that association? Apart from the difference in quality, a lot of the people involved are actually different.

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Narration would honestly seem out of place for a mario hack. In a way, it seems like it would be pretentious.

We don't need something crazy, just a trailer showing some clips will do. The first trailer got plenty of attention and we can promote it similarly.
Originally posted by Camerin
"From the makers of A Super Mario World Central Production,"

Are you sure we should make that association? Apart from the difference in quality, a lot of the people involved are actually different.

Well, it would garner SMWC good attention, and it was made by similar people. S.N.N. lead both productions (the first one eventually), and people who made good levels in the first one made levels in this one. Plus, it kind of seems strange that we wouldn't say that the makers of the first one also made the second one.

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So we're just supposed to have faith that we'll like what we hear when the time comes? That's not good enough for me. Granted, if everyone's fine with that sample, I'll acquiesce, but personally, I want to see what you're really capable of first. The script/performance in that sample seems a little too...cheesy. For me, anyway.


Actually, I don't think it was that bad for throwing it all together in four minutes.

If I were allowed to narrate the trailer, I can tell you two things would be different.
1. I would put more care into it. That sample was meant to show off what is possible.
2. Someone or several people would criticize it/offer suggestions before using it. It isn't like S.N.N. or the maker of the trailer would say, "Hmm...doesn't sound that good. Oh, well. I'm sure it will do."

I really don't care either way, though. I will be happy with whatever is deemed best for the trailer.
I for one am against the narration, no matter how well it can be pulled off. Voice overs are simply out of place in Mario titles. I didn't mind it in Sunshine, but I imagine there's a reason they haven't done it since. Let's try to preserve that Nintendo-ish trend!

On another note, should we use text in place of a speaker, let's make absolutely sure the grammar and spelling are at least passable. It may seem like a silly thing to complain about, but you can't expect many to take your work seriously if you can't even be assed to do this correctly. I've seen several amateur trailers lately that have made these mistakes, and they simply made me wish to close the video then and there rather than hype myself for the games' eventual releases.
I agree with Mineyl. I don't think voiceovers really work in Mario games =/

... Unless you want to parody the original smw commercial =P
Originally posted by Sind
I agree with Mineyl. I don't think voiceovers really work in Mario games =/

... Unless you want to parody the original smw commercial =P


And are the reason why I will forever despise post-Genesis Sonic games. /offtopic

On Topic: If the trailer must have any kind of words in it, it should be text that occasionally fades in like "Created By Over 200+ Users", "Original Soundtrack", "Many Secrets to Find", etc.. to help promote some of the more outstanding aspects of this hack.

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My Let's Play channel (Current LP: Final Fantasy VI, MegaMari)
Pages: « 1 2 3 412 13 »
Forum Index - Events - Super Mario World Central Production 2 Completion Project - SMWCP2 Archive - Trailer vs. gameplay video?