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021: Gunky Grotto - JDC

Complete

Yeah I'm going to agree with a lot of Kojeco said. @Kojeco, I believe it is Beach Ball Brawl that has that wave. Even with all of the Charging Chucks, you still have the same problems.

I'm tired of repeating myself over and over again and writing long posts and getting little results. You know what the problems are, FIX THEM. I stand by what I said in the last post and what I've been saying in the last 3-4 posts ago.

Frankly I don't like when designers have long lists of "Ignore all of this stuff" and most of that list contains stuff I already said needs to be fixed. If you have to do that, it means that the IPS is not ready for testing. GSG does it too, but at least when there's an IPS from GSG there's substantial change to it that actually makes sense.

JDC, you keep saying that you have an updated IPS but I haven't seen an IPS posted within the last month that would lead me to believe it is updated and fixed.
What ever cstutor :/

Download

I had to hire Mr ESC to be stricked at me, he did a pretty good job, what do you think of the level, all of the problems Mr ESC450 and Kojeco2 are fixed, how ever the bubbles are not fixed, please ignore that, I'm not aloud to over wright JDC's Map 16 page and his next IPS has the fix anyways :/

Well enjoy anyways, please.

Edit: Shouldn't of said that, crossed.
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Originally posted by JDC
Enough. Daizo and I have decided the tar should not have layer priority.

Mind telling us why? I don't see any reason as to why this should not be fixed. Also, I'm confused as to why the Quicksand Pit block wasn't used in the level instead of the normal Quicksand blocks you're using now. The tar pools are often used in pits, so it'd make sense... to be fair, though, your level isn't the only level that has this problem. Also, what's with the midway placement? A midway point shouldn't be a challenge to get, but rather a relief of sorts. Not to mention, it's somewhat close to the beginning of the level, too. I'd recommend extending the first part with 2-3 screens and putting the midpoint there instead.

By the way, what the hell is with this bubble debate anyway? Just fix it. It'll take half a minute and you'll shut people up. Don't even think about spending time typing up an angry reply at me, just do it.

I didn't get much time to analyze the actual level, I'm just pointing out a couple of things that irked me on the first playthrough.
aran - Graces of Heaven
Daizo, I'm starting to wonder if you don't actually know how to remove the layer priority. Does it not have to do with the sprite's YXPPCCCT value? Just set the 'PP' part of it to 01 or 10, it has to be set to 11 if it is appearing in front of Mario.

I probably sound like an idiot in this post if the tar bubbles aren't sprites.
Hmm. . . not sure what to say so I'll just stop talking. . .

Originally posted by Kojeco2
Daizo, I'm starting to wonder if you don't actually know how to remove the layer priority. Does it not have to do with the sprite's YXPPCCCT value? Just set the 'PP' part of it to 01 or 10, it has to be set to 11 if it is appearing in front of Mario.

I probably sound like an idiot in this post if the tar bubbles aren't sprites.


The Bubbles are blocks, not sprites, so that will not work sadly #w{=(}

Edit:
I'm not aloud to over wright JDC's Map 16 page and his next IPS has the fix anyways :/

I said that like a few times now, the bubbles are NOT in my control, its in JDC's.
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@GN: I feel that the layer priority is unnecessary kinda. The effect of tar, despite the temporary GFX, can still be shown even if the layer priority is disabled. Secondly, enabling the layer priority causes a few problems regarding cheap hits, as you can't see the enemies that go through the tar.
The bubble problem is already fixed. Need I remind everyone again that the map16 is outdated on Daizo's end.






Watch "Full" version Video V0.8

PLEASE READ THE PROBLEMS BEFORE LAUNCHING ANY VITRIOLIC COMPLAINTS AT US. THANK YOU.


Problems (known)
-The light doesn't appear at the start of the bonus level.
-Yes, some sprites appear in front the spoltight on the bonus level. Not intentional.
-The bonus level ain't that great. :/ I'll restart it probably.

-I'm aware of how sporadic the tar bubble sprites are. Sometimes they do not appear, while others, a glitchy corner tile appears. I'm looking into this one.
-tar GFX is temp.
-I'll probably change the bubble generator at the end to a single bubble.
-I'll make that ledge higher so you can't jump up to get the SMWCP coin. I only realised this after I recorded. :P

Not bad so far. Besides a few enemy placement issues, it looks pretty good imo, but a playable IPS would be a better judge of that in the end.
Layout by LDA during C3.
I'll give some feedback, the problems I found:

-Where the first Fire bro is, its kind of pointless prize after that, a 1-up or a SMWC coin would be better then a bunch of coins, sorry :(

-where the second pokey is, could you rise the sealing, kind of a cheep hit with the boomerang bro's boomerang.

-Could you maybe make the light block in the dark room brighter?

-The ninji's look a little too dark (in the spot light room), ether brighten them up or make the white palette gray may fix this.

-You could just shell jump to the 3rd coin, which is kind of easy to do (for me anyways), to fix this, remove the tar at the bottom of the empty yellow switch blocks.

Thats all I can say, other then that, Its a really good level.

%80.12

Edit, whoops, you already pointed that out :P

Edit again, And another error already spoted
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Originally posted by Daizo
-Where the first Fire bro is, its kind of pointless prize after that, a 1-up or a SMWC coin would be better then a bunch of coins, sorry :(


I beg to differ, although that is not the easiest of places to reach, it is not that worthy an achievement to simply time your jump (which in this case is not too difficult), so coins are fine up there. A Mushroom might be suitable, but I still think coins are the best choice.

This level is getting pretty close to complete, but it still isn't perfect. I would have to agree with you JDC that I would restart the bonus room, the sprite choice and placement seems slightly cheap. It might just be the brightness of Youtube, but because of how completely dark it is in that room, I, and I'm sure a lot of others, would have a difficult time predicting the position of those chucks. Slower sprites might be a better choice (such as Ninji's, Pokey's, etc.) if the final bonus room will actually appear that dark.

And should you really be forcing the player to find the Yellow Switch to get the last SMWCP coin? I don't know, its not a big point so you can keep it if others have an alternate opinion.

I STILL don't get why the Mid-point is placed that way. Besides, the last IPS showed that the bubble that is necessary to get the mid-point is a one-time use, so if you miss it or it pops, you don't get the mid-point.

Also, I was thinking maybe you could darken the background palette in the main area? It might look a bit better and have more contrast to the foreground if you did that.

The level is shaping up to be really good! I'm slightly worried as to how Daizo's half will fit in, but I guess I'll see in the next IPS.
Hmm. . . not sure what to say so I'll just stop talking. . .

Originally posted by Daizo


Willing to test this thing, I just want to make sure the people I got didn't miss anything #w{=P}
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@JDC, I'm not giving any feedback until there's an IPS. Send what you have now through an IPS, I'm not waiting another month for stuff to happen - videos and screenshots at this point don't count. You've still got some problems that weren't address before and some problems that were now created.

@Daizo, what more can I saw about your part. You keep doing the same thing and expect different results, I'm repeating what I've said before + more problems.

EDIT: JDC, it's decent.
Originally posted by TMI
Did you even fix anything?


Yes I did. Did you bother to check or did you post to flame me?

Huh.
Originally posted by JDC
Originally posted by TMI
Did you even fix anything?


Yes I did. Did you bother to check or did you post to flame me?

Huh.


He quoted his post from early, which was followed up by criticisms. I'm asking if anything has been changed since that post.
Originally posted by TMI
Originally posted by JDC
Originally posted by TMI
Did you even fix anything?


Yes I did. Did you bother to check or did you post to flame me?

Huh.


He quoted his post from early, which was followed up by criticisms. I'm asking if anything has been changed since that post.


Yes, I did, I Made some improvments:

-Removed the bullet bill and added a flying red koopa.
-More decoration
-Brought back the bros to make my and JDC's level fit.
-All the bugs cstutor and other beta testers pointed out (Except for the bubbles/Tar but JDC is puting my level in his IPS anyways so its fine)

Yeah, hole lot of changes, please enjoy, and tell me how to fix everything too :)
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IPS For Testing!

IPS of Full version V1.0.
-This includes both DK's and my sublevels.
-GFX will be drawn by Daizo and Jonny(I think he said so on JDCGames. I think.. :/)
-The tar bubbles are still a pain. :/ I can't fix this unfortunately.
-I've yet to "optimise" the level as it is called.


Please IGNORE the following:
--I'm aware of how sporadic the tar bubble sprites are. Sometimes they do not appear, while others, a glitchy corner tile appears. I'm looking into this one.
--The temporary GFX.


Please give positives, negatives plus how to improve whilst reviewing. This is the best approach to reviewing, and is the most helpful. Thank you.
Please ignore my level for now, I'm trying to fix it so it fits JDC's new IPS
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Yeah, I'd agree with Daizo actually. If we can please ignore 9E for now, that'd be great. :D


For the level name, We have decided to go for either "Sticky Subterranean", "Tarpit Tunnels" or "Gunky Grotto"

I prefer Gunky Grotto myself, but I'm interested in other opinions.
Is it just me, or is there no way of getting to Daizo's level from the IPS? I can't find the screen exit that leads to it in Lunar Magic, could someone elaborate?

It's looking really good, and the IPS showed me that the bonus room really isn't as dark as it appears in Youtube, so it isn't as difficult as I perceived.

I'm not entirely sure, but I think you can destroy the tar bubble generator with a shell, thus eliminating your chances at achieving in certain areas.

I have no real problems with the first section, I'll edit another part in discussing Daizo's half once I can figure out how to get to it.

EDIT: OH! 9E is, Daizo's part, oh, I should've realized. . .
If you guys want me to ignore it, I'll take your word on it and refrain from any criticism.
Hmm. . . not sure what to say so I'll just stop talking. . .

Okay JDC. As far as I can tell right now, JDC your part actually doesn't need very much modification at all. In fact it's almost ready for insertion provided that a few small things are fixed like slowdown and cutoff. I just want these changes done since you're close and you can insert it. It shouldn't take that long to finish it - a day at most, just finish it and you'll be done.

As for Level 21.

- I actually wished you used the darkness theme in the sublevel in 21 as well. Not necessary to change but something to think about. You could set it up so the player backtracks a screen to get to the secret area by putting the light block in Screen 6 and backtracking up the tar in Screen 5 to the secret exit.
- The yellow coin/block colors are dark for a well-lit area like this. If you make this area have darkness you can keep the colors the same.
- I don't know if I like the usage of Yellow Switch Blocks in order for a player to get SMWC coins or Secret Exits.

As far as Screen-By-Screen basis
- Screen 0, move the Power-Up block in Screen 2 back to where it was mainly because that Fire Bro setup is a mean one to go up and there are no power-ups at that point.
- Screen 9, pipe is unnecessary, can be eliminated.
- Screen A, eliminate the right-most muncher and raise the SMWC coin 2 notches up to make it harder to see.
- Screen E, raise the upper tar up one or two spaces mainly because the setup makes it so the bubbles aren't necessary to get up here. Cutoff on bottom-right tar. Some slowdown if bubbles come into play.
- Screen 10, Boomerang Bro is non-effective.

As for 9F:

- Replace the 3rd Chuck with a Blue Koopa and Shell. Slightly easen this sublevel as it's much harder to deal with than the normal level itself.

Other than the wonky bubble shooter which I could look at and see what is exactly wrong with it, you have a level.

EDIT: I forgot to mention JDC, the BG looks a lot better. So overall I think you did a lot of things right with this IPS.

As far as Daizo is concerned, I'm going to stress it right now, this level could be inserted right now without a secret exit. The next IPS you give Daizo is going to determine whether this one will have a secret exit or not because it still had the same problems for what I've seen - 4 times in a row. Make sure that the level you give, with 24 hours from now, as an IPS is THE final or near finalized product of what you want. You've had more time to think about, plan, and do the level than JDC and I don't think you should take longer than him to finish it especially when it's this close to finishing and he had less time than you did.

Complete