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13B: awakening - General Discussion
Forum Index - Events - Super Mario World Central Production 2 Completion Project - World 10 - 13B: awakening - General Discussion
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This is the general discussion thread to talk about the level part of World 9's Boss. Anything about the boss (Dreamer) and his/her attributes shall be a part of the boss thread.

If you have questions about any of the level designs for any of the 5 phases I will answer them as quickly as possible. Need ASM for that phase? - let me know so long as it's not cluster sprites. Dialogue writing should be in this thread as well as music compositions (if any).
The question is, do we want to get a new tileset which is unique to this level (and as such, would be palette-swapped between the five phases or something)? I'd really hate to see a complete mish-mash of stuff that was already used earlier in terms of graphics.
Also, this is my personal problem that I think applies here:

How will we integrate all these themes together?

I have a problem with my levels, which is usually disjointed (uhh...I need to find a way to better flow my Blue Switch), and with these five phases, it would feel out of nowhere when one time it's happy land the next its angry land.
Yeah that sounds like a good idea to have a tileset that is the same for all 5 phases. What I would say now is draw up the level where the FG3 = 15 for right now (Plains level) and someone who does the graphics can modify GFX15 and insert it. As for BG2 and BG3, those are free and can be used as decorations.

I wouldn't worry about the BG1 for right now. We'll probably find something that syncs with all of the levels together.

In shorthand FG3 and BG1 will have some form of tileset that matches all of the levels. The palettes though will change from phase to phase.

EDIT: @GSG. The goal is supposed to be progression. Starts off Happy and over the course of each phase gets more sad/dark. And Mario constantly goes back in and out of each phase once he passes that dream as if he's suffering from the dreams themselves.
Originally posted by S.N.N.
The question is, do we want to get a new tileset which is unique to this level (and as such, would be palette-swapped between the five phases or something)? I'd really hate to see a complete mish-mash of stuff that was already used earlier in terms of graphics.


I really think it probably should. Honestly, this stage should look different from any we've ever really seen in SMW hacking in general. What I'd really like to especially see are some crazy HDMA effects in the BGs similar to those seen in the battle sequences in Earthbound--some of those might be a bit beyond SMW's powers, but a lot of them use relatively simply graphics with a well-chosen bit of undulation and palette animation to make surprisingly impressive effects.

Originally posted by Giant Shy Guy
Also, this is my personal problem that I think applies here:

How will we integrate all these themes together?

I have a problem with my levels, which is usually disjointed (uhh...I need to find a way to better flow my Blue Switch), and with these five phases, it would feel out of nowhere when one time it's happy land the next its angry land.


Well, they seem to follow in such an order that a gradual transition of mood wouldn't be to hard--happiness is followe my mischief, and anger is last, after sadness/depression (with perplexity in the middle). The important thing, however, is that the designers really need to communicate on these parts in order to make sure they fit together well.

EDIT:

Concerning the ideas of the themes of the subsections...I'm wondering if they should all necessarily be posed as "What if"s. If we're pursuing the idea discussed in the boss thread of Mario trying to wake up the Dreamer, and here interpreting him as a nightmare/one of the forces previously trying to exploit her, it would make sense if the first section (Happiness) were simply structured as a sort of rowdy party, in keeping with the idea of Mario and the inhabitants of the world trying to make a lot of noise (especially as I've got to admit the the coin business strikes me as my least favorite of the proposals), thereby establishing precisely what's going on here. Part 2 (Mischief) ties into that as well--after part 1, the Dreamer is starting to stir, and so things begin to break down, and get a little more abstract. Part 3 (Perplex) marks the beginning of her counterattack by sealing Mario in a maze, and could also be where she starts to address him directly. Parts 4 and 5, correspondingly, could (but needn't necessarily) be more along the lines of what-ifs, wherein she refines her psychological warfare in an attempt to hit Mario on more of a personal level. When this, too, fails, we have the final boss. This would definitely help with giving us something of a smoother transition as well.
In terms of graphics, I'd be willing to offer up this set if it's suitable. It's not exactly a graphical masterpiece, but it's abstract and you can do some pretty cool things with it (the FG, I mean).

Shrug.

e: also, I wouldn't mind whipping up a final song here that could be shared between all 5 phases.
Originally posted by S.N.N.
In terms of graphics, I'd be willing to offer up this set if it's suitable. It's not exactly a graphical masterpiece, but it's abstract and you can do some pretty cool things with it (the FG, I mean).

Shrug.

e: also, I wouldn't mind whipping up a final song here that could be shared between all 5 phases.



I like it, but to me it doesn't fit with the other tilesets?

I think.

But anywho, what captured my eye is that cement block, actually. This is off-topic, but wouldn't that be a better cement block than the one we have now?
@SNN I like the tileset, I'd like to see a few more options first but I'll keep that one as one of the possible choices. I like the music though that was really nicely done.
I'm not quit understanding this. Are these sub-levels to the world 9 boss? How does one go about claiming the level? Yeah i didn't really kept up with the w-9 thread.

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Originally posted by 2dareduck
I'm not quit understanding this. Are these sub-levels to the world 9 boss? How does one go about claiming the level? Yeah i didn't really kept up with the w-9 thread.


Here's the idea for World 9's boss. The phases are sections of the experimental level that will be worked on leading up to the boss. If you would like to work on a section for this level, let me know which one and I'll add you to that section.

Originally posted by cstutor89
To me I like the idea of an experimental level but not exactly the concept of what was given. I was thinking more along the lines of what the boss does and that is to create dreams. As Mario gets closer to the Dreamer he becomes more affected by the dreams themselves. Each part of the level (dream) he takes on becomes more intense and abstract until he finally goes through all of them and then the boss battle starts. I'm thinking of 5 to begin with: happiness, sadness, anger, perplex, and mischievous - feelings of "what if X happened". Those "What If" questions would also be supplemented with if that did happen, then a consequence happens with it. Here's how I would design the level given this idea:

- Section 1: What If I Had All The Coins In The World? (Happiness) - Mario and friends has a whole stash of coins, but when everyone else finds out about it, then they come after Mario as a stampede. To break free he has to avoid all of that.

- Section 2: What If I Can Do The Impossible? (Mischievous) - This is where RN's ideas come in. Mario is now able to shoot up everything in site in this galaxy field of planetoids and gravity fields. Though there are some gravitational fields that are too strong and suck Mario into a black hole of nothingness.

- Section 3: What If I Can't Figure Out This Puzzle? (Perplex) - Mario is transported into a world with a confusing maze. Only when he gets out of it can he get win. I have some ideas about this maze though it's a go behind the BG and you can walk to another section of it (kind of like what was in Kirby's Epic Yarn). The consequence is to wander aimlessly thorugh the maze.

- Section 4: What If I Didn't Exist? (Sadness) - Yeah it's that feeling of not wanting to be alive. Everything is in shambles and the Koopas have taken over. Probably could throw in Norveg into this mix too. Luigi is barely alive and Princess Peach was of course captured. Mario gets this section of dialogue that builds into the fact that he has to go on. The consequence is he has to press on and beat the Koopas.

- Section 5: What If Princess Peach Got Hurt? (Anger) - Mario is able to take on paths of moving at obscene speeds and able to trample on anything that gets in his way. Though with anger comes the ability of being careless and destructive.

Those are the kinds of epiphanies that most dreams are made of. Those sections don't have to be very long, but if both the level and the boss are in the same level then it really should make sense together. Plus this final (special) boss should be something that goes all out without throwing too much stuff together and calling it a level or Kaizo. I like this idea as it has some discrete, abstract ideas that aren't necessarily related, but they all come together and are built on emotions and things that this dreamer has been feeling. It feels a bit more connected with what the boss does and how it acts. It also doesn't feel like this has been overdone too much (if not ever) in the SMW realm. Someone could disagree with that but that's how I feel about this idea.
The more I think about it, though...if we're really trying to keep these individual sections fairly short, the whole idea of structuring them with such complex scenarios (especially as seen in part 4) might not be in our best interests. I wonder if trying for a bit more impressionistic interpretation of the emotions listed might not be a more effective idea, especially as dreams tend to function more on that sort of fundamnetal, visceral level that some of the more...rational analyses of the emotions as described here.
Originally posted by Rameau's Nephew
The more I think about it, though...if we're really trying to keep these individual sections fairly short, the whole idea of structuring them with such complex scenarios (especially as seen in part 4) might not be in our best interests. I wonder if trying for a bit more impressionistic interpretation of the emotions listed might not be a more effective idea, especially as dreams tend to function more on that sort of fundamnetal, visceral level that some of the more...rational analyses of the emotions as described here.


I do partially agree with the statements you've presented. I think that keeping it a minute long maybe is too short at this point because some of these need more time to develop themselves well. The times should be elongated to 1-1/2 to 2-1/2 minutes top. Though some of the sections might be shorter than others for instance sections 1, 3, and 5 probably will be shorter than sections 2 and 4. There's some flexibility in the lengths of these parts depending on what comes up in the design. This level can be a lot more flexible in the time department because it is the final level of the game - though not too flexible that it drags on for half an hour as the void did. As far as the interpretation of the phase, that I'll leave up to the designer - though I'd like to keep the types of emotions the same. Phase 4 does have a sad state, but it not necessarily has to follow the sample idea I presented.
I'm currently at school, so not only do I not have any resources(sowftware and hardware, these computers are shit), but internet acces is also limited, so can't download(most things).Ill be making a quick tileset, and hopefully will be fitting to the theme.
Also, does the tileset have to be a gfx15 replacement + decorations?If so, I recently made a gfx 15 replacement and like making decorations.

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Your layout has been removed.
That's cool. It doesn't necessarily have to be GFX15 but I've found 15 to have a lot of different slopes and straight edges and things like that give room for the look of the level to be something that could go through all of the different sublevels of 13B. There's a couple of extra spots too with 15 that could be nice to add decorations.

Also, just as a note for the designers, if they have a certain decoration that was used in another level and is relevant to the sublevel they are designing, they can use BG2 and BG3 for that too in combination with the general tileset for all of 13B.
What kind of "decorations"(as they pretty much are complimentary tilesets) would be neccesary?Also, the most important, what kind of style would be prefered(normal black outlines, no outlines, dark colours for outlines, etc.)?

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Your layout has been removed.
That's a good question. The FG is kind of interesting in that being in a dream it almost could look like anything - colors-wise and shape-wise. A palace setting might be nice for the dreamer part of the FG, but for everything else, it pretty much could be anything at this point. SNN had a clip of some abstract FGs and that could work too ... I'd have to think about that part a little bit more. Other people should comment on this too. Dark Color outlines are probably good for something like this.

Decorations are kind of iffy for me - it depends on the designer and depends on what idea they are going to stick with. Planets was mentioned in the boss thread, I think, that would be good for Section 2. Stacks of coins would be a good BG for section 1. Section 3 and 5 are open right now. Section 4 probably could use some firey and burned tiles. I'll have to look into the decorations for now and see what people come up with in that department.
Ok, someone mentioned this in the proposal thread, so here goes:

YY-CHR Snapshot. Palette Blueberry

I'm sorry, I had to do it. A simple gfx-swap of the Magikoopa. I think I'll go now.
Good lord, it don't look like a berry at all. I guess i'll make some simple sprite graphics for it myself, for a custom sprite if anyone want to code. I think a magikoopa reeskin is not a good idea.

EDIT:

I imagine something like this.



Like /Everlude
Follow @Ludus.Art

@custor:
So, some sort of landmass with a smoth texture, and some simple diferently colored border?That way, it can be anything.As for BG2/3, we can have some temple/ruin gfx some sort of light/energy platforms similar to what SNN showed, some extras like coins, burnt grass etc.?
Also, Ive got a BIG exam tomorow, so not only to day but tomorow I wont be too active.Hopefully Ill be able to make a WIP in the next 5 minutes...

EDIT

Some overly grainy dirt and much smother dirt.These are extremes, just to see what they look like.Apart from that I have made gras with 2 diferent textures and several diferent borders.The one with the grainy ground has a dotted texture, the smothground one has lines.
This is just a WIP, please coment so it can improve.

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Your layout has been removed.
There's something about the smooth dirt that I like a lot more. Trying to envision these tiles into other colors is tough for me ... but I think that one can work out pretty well. Maybe what also could be good is a few architectural items like small impressions - star/moon/sun that are pressed into the wall itself on the normal dirt tiles. I'd probably go with the smoother one.

I'd like other people to comment about the tiles too.
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 »
Forum Index - Events - Super Mario World Central Production 2 Completion Project - World 10 - 13B: awakening - General Discussion

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