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What exactly defines "Pit"?
Forum Index - SMW Hacking - Works in Progress - Kaizo Hacks - What exactly defines "Pit"?
Pages: « 1 »
Pit hacks are known for two things: emulator slowdown, and glitch abuse.

But about emulator slowdown: does a level that requires emulator slowdown automatically become pit? For example, I made a level I plan to submit to the contest (once they get judges), but the contest has strict rules that you cannot submit a pit level. Now some portions of my level had to be tested at 1/2 speed. Does that make it a pit level? Or would it still be kaizo?

If you are wondering what level I am talking about

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I generally think of pit as a one-level hack, where kaizo can be many levels. To me, the ORIGINAL purpose of the original kaizo mario was to be hard as can be without requiring any glitches or slowdown, and they original video is even played without savestates. As kaizo grew and people got tired of easy, they made it harder and more creative, where slowdown was needed. But pit hacks require precision to pass, and require the player to complete a difficult task at exact frames. Kaizo relies on an almost puzzle aspect to create difficulty, like the original kaizo has puzzles and the player had to use their brain to get past jumps. In pit it's sometimes just TASing skill to get past a level. If the player has a lot of free space to move around and is not continuously in the process of doing a hard jump/glitch, is is probably not pit.
Last year most levels of the difficulty category required some slowdown to play (that is to say, most levels had a section where I decided to use some slowdown, all of them indeed at 1/2 speed). Something requiring some slowdown can indeed still be Kaizo, but you should be very careful with sections requiring slowdown since it can get tedious very quickly (and, as always, you are at risk of players using slowdown everywhere since it is required somewhere...).

Pit levels are usually a notch above that, requiring slowdown almost everywhere. Some of the older Pit hacks (such as the first ones made by Moltov) can be played at only 1/2 speed (iirc dainaguy TAS'ed them at half speed) but more recent levels definitely require frame advance or heavy slowdown (1/5 or even 1/10 speed or so). Requiring anything over 1/3 speed is a clear indicator that the level might be too hard to be called Kaizo.

As for Pit hacks being one level hacks: most are, but not all. My Pitiless has several levels and I personally think it's a Pit hack. I must admit that Pitiless is in fact the only multi-level Pit hack I know, but it's not a solid rule that Pit hacks can't make use of multiple level-ending gimmicks.

Also as mentioned above: adding some safe spots and giving the player spare time can make a lot of difference.

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Of course you should fight fire with fire, you should fight everything with fire.

Oooh look at my userbar!


Sadistic Designer - testing Pit without tools.
So 1/2 speed is not really an issue then? Well, my level does not require anything frame perfect, and I think it could also be done without slowdown, although I think there was one jump that I put in there that I don't think anyone could do unless they are at 1/2 speed. As for the time limit, there is one segment that begin with 6 seconds, and every clock you grab adds 5 seconds, and you don't have a second to spare. However, that segment pretty much requires you to run at full speed and keep your momentum, which is not much of a pain (perhaps I should remove the coins indicating the timing to jump, I left them in by mistake). But the final boss is a puzzle, and if you do it properly, you can win with 1 second left on the clock. However, that boss was tested without slowdown.

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I personally think there should be 3 tiers of kaizo.
-hacks possible without tools at all
-hacks possible with rewinds and saves
-hacks possible with slowdowns and frame advancement

I have a tendency to call anything beyond reasonable without tools pit, even though it's not really the case. Constantly requiring precise jumps, crazy puzzles, and obscure glitches throughout each level would probably be a more accurate description of a pit. Of course this is all opinionated and is really up to the hacker.

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I think a pit hack needs to use pixel perfect and frame perfect tricks in do or die situations on a regular basis, where Kaizo only uses them sparingly, if ever.
Originally posted by Sadistic Designer
I must admit that Pitiless is in fact the only multi-level Pit hack I know

There's also Ludicrous Mario (not sure if that's still being worked on), and I'm pretty sure Super Skill World is also a pit hack.
Originally posted by Sadistic Designer's signature
Sadistic Designer - the only person alive to test Pit without tools.

How do you manage that? O.O

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Legacy custom music


How am I so creative? I think taking walks might have something to do with it.
Every single level I will ever make in SMM2 will be easier than Ultra Necrozma.
So if I only use a pixel perfect jump in once, it can still be kaizo?

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don't click this link...
Originally posted by Sadistic Designer's signature
Sadistic Designer - the only person alive to test Pit without tools.

How do you manage that? O.O</div></div>

Wow I didn't notice this... the hell Sadistic? You need to start youtube uploading man I'm extremely curious! If I had those badass skills I sure would. I can't imagine how long that'd take though.

Sokoban, you have some really interesting kaizo's I might try this way, one day... (and record it of course lol)

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Originally posted by aterraformer
Originally posted by sokobansolver
Originally posted by Sadistic Designer's signature
Sadistic Designer - the only person alive to test Pit without tools.

How do you manage that? O.O


Wow I didn't notice this... the hell Sadistic? You need to start youtube uploading man I'm extremely curious! If I had those badass skills I sure would. I can't imagine how long that'd take though.

Meh, only most sections of Pitiless. Slowdown and Frame Advance hated me so I just played it at regular speed most of the time.

Also mathelete: if the pixel perfect jump is too hard and makes people grab 1/3 slowdown or something of the sorts then I'd say your hack might be pit simply for one hard jump. To be honest it also really depends on whether the jump is fun or not... sorry for making things unclear.

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Of course you should fight fire with fire, you should fight everything with fire.

Oooh look at my userbar!


Sadistic Designer - testing Pit without tools.
Originally posted by Sadistic Designer
Originally posted by aterraformer
Originally posted by sokobansolver
Originally posted by Sadistic Designer's signature
Sadistic Designer - the only person alive to test Pit without tools.

How do you manage that? O.O


Wow I didn't notice this... the hell Sadistic? You need to start youtube uploading man I'm extremely curious! If I had those badass skills I sure would. I can't imagine how long that'd take though.

Meh, only most sections of Pitiless. Slowdown and Frame Advance hated me so I just played it at regular speed most of the time.

Also mathelete: if the pixel perfect jump is too hard and makes people grab 1/3 slowdown or something of the sorts then I'd say your hack might be pit simply for one hard jump. To be honest it also really depends on whether the jump is fun or not... sorry for making things unclear.

It does not need 1/3 slowdown, only 1/2 slowdown.

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Ok I decided to test the pixel perfect jump without slowdown...it is doable (I guess it is not really pixel perfect then, there is probably slight room for error)

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What exactly is the jump?

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Why not go to my Youtube channel?

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Forum Index - SMW Hacking - Works in Progress - Kaizo Hacks - What exactly defines "Pit"?

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