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The remaining biggies: the credits and the hub

Okay, so at this point it looks like everything else is covered. The bosses are nearly done, the maps are nearly done, and the cutscenes are at least ready to be written. There are two things left that we need to discuss: the credits (whether it should happen after Norveg or after world 9, what it should be like (simple/complex), etc.) and the hub. We had a lot of high hopes for the hub when we first began the hack, but realistically, I don't think we can do much with the limited space we have left. Let's not pull an SMWCP1 and half-ass something though - even if we can't make something insanely impressive, let's at least give the player a reason to visit that area.

So yeah. Any thoughts?

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At this point, I cannot see any plausible and worthwhile use for a HUB other than just to have it, so I would be inclined to get rid of it.

And here comes Rameau with an idea that would include the house Mario was in during the introduction scene he wrote. Which of course would include a Toad and that three-eyed walking fish chatting it up.

And here I respond "God dammit."

If we were to include anything resembling a hub, that is indeed pretty much what I would suggest. That said, on a purely practical level, we could probably survive without anything at all there. What we have in this game is a sort of sprawling adventure across various lands, and I honestly can't see the player being all that compelled to come back home regularly, so there's little point at trying anything elaborate--just a little curiosity like Yoshi's House in the original SMW, or even nothing at all.

Alternatively or in supplementation, I guess we could include a little place where one can discover awards for SMWC coins? We never did entirely determine just how we were handling those...

As for the credits, I think having them after Norveg seems the logical choice; that's the end of the main story, and World 9 and associated matters are more of an unusual step-to-the-side/aftertale to the main plot. It seems both would feel more satisfying if put the normal ending, credits included, immediately after Norveg, thereby dividing main story and trippy epilogue more neatly from one another. Now, as for as for what exactly how to handle the actual credit sequence itself...
Yeah I'd go for the credits after Norveg. Remember how SMG had the credits right after the last Bowser but then you came back to get the remaining stars? It was impossible to get those stars until you defeated Bowser. So if an official Mario game does it, we should do it too.

As for handling the credits, I honestly think we should just keep it simple and have scrolling text, maybe a few images depicting each world of the game (two each, one of a level, one of a boss) then after the ending of the credits, an image depicting the next world appears before returning to the overworld and gaining access to World 9.

It'd be pretty easy to pull off and on top of that preserve a lot of rom space than if we did something which looked fancy. To be honest, I don't think the SMWCP credits sequence of Mario walking was worth the rom space.

As for the hub, we could have something where you could check on your achievements, such as talking to a Toad and he'll tell you statistics like play time, number of exits you've gotten, overall of lives you've earned and lost, and maybe a few hints as to how to get some more difficult secret exits.
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The HUB should contain awards for having a certain amount of SMWCP coins. Maybe have secret areas that contains certain power-ups that you can get to if you have a specific amount of coins.

Really, I still think the SMWCP coins existing just to get to World 9 and a crazy cutscene isn't enough, especially how both awards are given somewhere at the end.

And I agree with MVS about having a Toad or message box of some sort that tells you your statistics.

And lastly, how about put Bowser's vacation house there?

~

Credits, after Norveg.
The credits really should come after the Norveg battle, it wouldn't make sense for them to come after secret world, and I think they don't need to be an overly fancy thing... but neither an overly simplistic thing, it has to be balanced, MVS' idea sounds plausible enough.

I also agree with the idea of having a progress-recording Toad, and this should be Toadbert, he really looks like the type of Toad who'd make this sort of thing. A house sounds like a good idea, too.

Didn't we agree on having something like the NSMBW credits (as in a little minigame) for the credits or am I making things up now?
I don't know, would be more interesting than a standard credits roll, which people usually skip or hate if they are unskippable.
Your layout has been removed.
If we're going for an NSMBWii sort of credits scene, here's an idea I just got: Spell out the credits using blocks with letters on them, and make the letters change when the blocks are hit from below to allow for a bit of interactivity.
Very space-consuming I'm aware, but I'm sure it'll be a credits scene worth experiencing.

(Edit: as for the hub, I honestly doubt we need much more than a generic house with a message or two. I doubt there's anything we can do that would make people want to return there over and over.)


 

Originally posted by WhiteYoshiEgg
If we're going for an NSMBWii sort of credits scene, here's an idea I just got: Spell out the credits using blocks with letters on them, and make the letters change when the blocks are hit from below to allow for a bit of interactivity.
Very space-consuming I'm aware, but I'm sure it'll be a credits scene worth experiencing.

I made blocks like this when I did the interactive credits level in my last hack. I could post them here, but they would still need to be SMWCP2-ified
Layout by LDA during C3.
For me, after the credit roll end. It should has a enemy photobook, like the SMW do.
What if we had the 'enemy' credits after the Norveg battle, but an actual 'staff roll' after the w9 boss?
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People have been mentioning on IRC (and here a bit it seems) that we shouldn't go too crazy on the hub. Like, someone mentioned that it should have the SMWC coin shop and nothing more, and another person mentioned that we should just delete the level tile entirely and have the player start on Girder Grassland. Thoughts?
Just make it Mario's house with a Toad that sells/lets you unlock shit and nobody will complain about a ghost town or a half assed hub!

And by SMWC coin shop you mean the player can spend his SMWC coins for stuff, right?
Well, what for? Powerups seems kind of underpowered, considering SMWC coins don't respawn..
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Originally posted by leod
And by SMWC coin shop you mean the player can spend his SMWC coins for stuff, right?
Well, what for? Powerups seems kind of underpowered, considering SMWC coins don't respawn..


I say certain sub-levels in the hub that are unlocked with how much SMWCP coins you have obtained. Kinda like unlockable Secret Areas with only one kind of power-up for each.
In my opinion, there really is no reason to have a hub in a game unless it's the only way you can access the rest of the levels. When I played SMWCP (granted, I only played up to world 4 before I lost interest), I went to the hub once (if only to see myself in the Bar & Grill) and never looked at it again. So unless you plan to scrap the overworld and make all the levels accessible through the hub only (which is incredibly improbable at this point), there really isn't a reason to have it at all.

As for credits, I believe a few screenshots of each level would be enough to keep the player entertained. However, a character rollcall such as in Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door could be a very interesting idea as well. It could just be as simple as having all the characters (or at least just the important ones) walk across the bottom of the screen until the credits end. That might be hard to pull off with the limited ROM space, but it's only a suggestion.
I prefer the screenshots of the different level idea for the credits like in New Super Mario Bros. As for the hub, I really don't think there's anything really worth having there right now.
I no longer have interest in SMW Hacking as I did when I first started several years ago.
Are we still going to have a "god mode" power-up that unlocks after doing everything, where Mario can basically break leves? If yes, I see reason in the hub, if no then you guys know best.
I wonder what a HFD opcode would do in ASM...
Just to put my own input: "Credits after Norveg". That makes the most sense, and since World 9 is a bonus, it makes it feel like there's still quite some more secrets hidden in the game.

As for the hub, I vote against it, we could honestly use that space for either more secrets, or just incase something goes a miss. I never used the hub in ANY SMW Hack at all.
For the hub, it shouldn't be too amazing, it should be like the tree house from the first level of DKC, where it only has a few coins and thats it.

For the credits, why not both? Perhaps maybe that after Norveg, there are all the credits of who made what. As well as a Hidden Staff Credits where Everyone is credited including all the people who started it. I don't know, its just my own idea here.
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I think it would be better and make more sense if the credits came after the Norveg battle because that's when the player finishes the game. As for the hub.. well, I don't see any reason why we should have one for the sake of having one. Unless it has interesting mini-games, unique shop items, etc. I think it'd be worthless. Maybe we could put up a poll to see what people prefer.

For the credits, maybe we could have the simple downwards scroll effect with maybe some animations in the corner like in some movies? Maybe we could have a camera pan effect showing some levels and the names of the users? Making it NSMB Wii style wouldn't be a bad idea either, IMO.