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Overused/underused stuff

This is a list of stuff that seems over/underused in SMW hacks. I'll update this if someone suggests something good. Note that I only accept stuff that's doable with LM only, NOT e.g. making the music continue while the game is paused. Stuff from SDW is OK, but not stuff from SDW3 or SDWTLC.


Overused stuff:

Sprites:
The creating/eating block (if the level doesn't fit the path properly. So NO making an empty area to ride it through, that doesn't count as "fitting the path".)
Pirhana Plants with fish stems
Enemy generators only to increase difficulty. Impossible hacks isn't fun.
High bouncing green koopas
Keys and keyholes besides each other (but don't skip them totally)
Rip van Fish
Very Fast autoscroll

Blocks:
Note block corridors (note blocks above and below Mario with only a little air between)
Invisible blocks
Black pirhana plants, ESPECIALLY when they are simply flipped and there's silver Ps nearby! That's ugly!
"Mazes" where you need to hit P-switches fast
One-block-high corridors that's too big to slide through
Multiple 3up moons at the same place

Misc.:
ALL kinds of glitches! From the ghost house holes going over the pillars to flipping lava!
Exploiting glitches! Fix them instead! Wait, fixing them isn't not doable with LM. Silly me...
"Perfect" jumps where you must do exactly right or die.
Wrong-spelled stuff, if there's no good reason, like a teethless person saying it. "Finn ma feef leas!" is OK.
Many powerups at the same place, except in Top Secret Areas and bonus rooms.
Having Bowser as the main villian
Having rescuing Peach as the main goal
Locking ROMs, some people might need to know how the levels look!
Traps with goals that can kill you.


Underused stuff:

Sprites:
Most kinds of Chargin' Chucks
High bouncing green koopasWhy did I put this here? It's overused and hard!
The creating/eating block (if the level fits the path)
The eating block alone
Pokey
Diagonal "carrot top ledges"
The Chuck clone that can't be normally accessed via the LM windows (96)
Dark rooms
Diggin' Chuck
Growing/Shrinking Pipe End
Ninji
Moving Ledge Hole for Ghost Houses
Brown platform on a chain
Super Koopa
Balloon
Scale Platforms
Fuzzy/Sparky/Hothead
Timed Lift
Grey Moving Castle Block
Layer 2 smash commands
Classic Pirhana Plant with nice stem
Sliding Koopas
Para-Goomba generator
Para-Bomb generator
The generator creating both of these together
Monty Mole
Yellow Koopa Troopa with wings
Rex
Portable springboards
Flying red coins
Floating spiky balls
Non-green Yoshi
Autoscroll

Blocks:
Berries
Yoshi wings. I put these in the Blocks section beause they come from blocks.
Directional coins. They're hard to control, but can be fun.
Wall-running triangles
The SMB3 bricks you can find in SDW
Blocks making 1ups appear (I think)
Invisible blocks containing treasures (I think)
3up moons (I think)

Misc.:
Levels scrolling left.
Custom graphics, especially for Mario and the FOI.
Changing Mario to someone else.
SMB3 style levels, sky levels, mountain climbing levels, water levels.
Shell puzzles, where you need to use shells wisely.
Having to jump Bullet Bills to find secrets.
Spots where you have to leave Yoshi behind to continue.
Multiple paths in levels.
Falling layer 2.
<blm> zsnes users are the flatearthers of emulation
Originally posted by Alcaro
Sprites:
Most kinds of Chargin' Chucks.

XD

But seriously...

XD
Don't you like them? Well, it's not my favourite sprite, but I will use them. I like variations.
<blm> zsnes users are the flatearthers of emulation
Chargin chucks are underused? That seems to conflict with the romhacks I've tried, they're used quite a bit.

Also, I think the eating block should be under "underused" as a separate entity. You don't need a creating block to use the eating one, and it's really interesting to implement otherwise.


On another note, why not include "music continues while paused"?


In any case, though you just started this list, as it expands I'm sure it will become a great resource. For my own suggestions:

Overused: -Black Chompers
-Green bouncing winged koopas... *shudders*

Underused: -Eating blocks (not connected to creating block)
-Shell puzzles
Overused:
Using SMW graphics + ExGFX

Underused:
Using custom graphics entirely (sprites, blocks, powerups)
Originally posted by Metroid48
Chargin chucks are underused? That seems to conflict with the romhacks I've tried, they're used quite a bit.
You're the second one to suggest this, so...okay. I'll strike them.
Originally posted by Metroid48
Also, I think the eating block should be under "underused" as a separate entity.
Okay. When I wrote that, I didn't know how much would have to be copied to separate them. I think I say no instead.
Originally posted by Metroid48
You don't need a creating block to use the eating one, and it's really interesting to implement otherwise.

I have only one vague memory of a hack using only the eating block without the creating. It might be Chaos CompleXX or somewhere in the SMW+ series. Or I might remember it wrong. Anyway, they're the same sprite, and they're made to be in a pair. So: No.
Originally posted by Metroid48
On another note, why not include "music continues while paused"?
Since that's not doable without a hex editor.
Originally posted by Alcaro
Note that I only accept stuff that's doable with LM only.
Originally posted by Metroid48
Overused: -Black Chompers
-Green bouncing winged koopas
What's Black Chompers? Is it the to me underused moving holes in ghost house floors?
And I don't find the bouncing koopas very overused, but... I can agree that the high bounging type is a little overused.
Originally posted by Metroid48
Underused: -Eating blocks (not connected to creating block)
-Shell puzzles
The creating block is the same sprite as the eating one, and they're made to be in together, that's why I have them in one entry.
Shell puzzles...could you please tell me what that is?
Originally posted by Gigyas
Overused:
Using SMW graphics + ExGFX
Underused:
Using custom graphics entirely (sprites, blocks, powerups)
I can add Custom Graphics in the Underused section. It is slightly bending the rules, you need to use copy & paste, but...

Nice with so much comments.
<blm> zsnes users are the flatearthers of emulation
No, you don't get what I'm saying. Many people use ExGFX in their hacks, which is custom GFX. But very few people go and change stuff like the powerups, the koopas, etc. Plus I have used the eating block by itself before, quite successfully. Shell puzzles are where you need a shell... to do a puzzle.
Originally posted by Alcaro
Originally posted by Metroid48
You don't need a creating block to use the eating one, and it's really interesting to implement otherwise.

I have only one vague memory of a hack using only the eating block without the creating. It might be Chaos CompleXX or somewhere in the SMW+ series. Or I might remember it wrong. Anyway, they're the same sprite, and they're made to be in a pair. So: No.

It's your list, but you just affirmed the point: only one vague memory of someone creatively using eating blocks. Leave it out if you want, but I say that eating blocks can create really interesting levels with no creating blocks as Giygas mentioned(btw, I've got a level in my upcoming hack that uses eating blocks alone. The level is completed already and it's a neat implementation that I haven't seen before).

Originally posted by Alcaro
Originally posted by Metroid48
Overused: -Black Chompers
-Green bouncing winged koopas
What's Black Chompers? Is it the to me underused moving holes in ghost house floors?


No, black chompers, chomps, etc. are the black instant-death plants that yoshi can walk on.

Originally posted by Alcaro
Shell puzzles...could you please tell me what that is?


It's just when you need to use shells, in combination with blocks, bouncing it, getting a blue koopa to kick, etc. to solve something. A not-so-complex implementation was in Kaizo: There were three ? blocks that each had a green shell in them, with a blue koopa walking ontop of them. You had to hit a block so that the blue koopa would kick it into a slot which would (eventually) deliver it to you.
Originally posted by Alcaro

High bouncing green koopas.


Really? I myself tend to use that one occasionally.
More than the creating/eating sprite.

Originally posted by Alcaro

Custom graphics.


Disagreed. Hmm, agreed, after reading the other posts.

I agree with most others... I don't use note block corridors, actually, but I see a lot of other people do it.
--------> Don't follow "Find Roy's Dignity", my hack. Because it's pretty outdated. <--------

Originally posted by Giygas
No, you don't get what I'm saying. Many people use ExGFX in their hacks, which is custom GFX. But very few people go and change stuff like the powerups, the koopas, etc.

Few people actually take the time to design all of the graphics themselves, which usually has a way better outcome then those graphics that came from the ExGFX section.


AS IF I KNOW WHAT TO PUT HERE.

Hack Status: Cat Adventure Deluxe
-100% Undone
Derp.
Since 2006

What is the creating/eating block? Is that the block that moves on a path in a castle etc.? >_>

Overused:

INVISIBLE COIN BLOCKS
Black Chomps
"Perfect" jumps when you have to squeeze through an area with perfect timing or you die.

Underused:

I rarely see Pokeys...

Yes.

One thing I find underused are the diagonal moving grass platforms. I don't play many hacks, so I'm not completely sure.


AS IF I KNOW WHAT TO PUT HERE.

Hack Status: Cat Adventure Deluxe
-100% Undone
Derp.
Since 2006

Overused: P-switch + long string of coins = RUN TO TEH FINISH!!1!
Underused: Good water levels
Originally posted by AtomicShroom
Yes.

One thing I find underused are the diagonal moving grass platforms. I don't play many hacks, so I'm not completely sure.


I also agree with this, very underused, I rarely see them used, I've played about 30 hacks since joining here (just for fun etc.) and maybe 2 had the grass platforms...
Overused
Big boo as End boss with hp++

Levels with 54,252,543,254 of the same custom sprite

The Forest of Illusion OW Theme. --Especially the scary trees. I mean is it That hard to make the Regular/Happy Trees?

Bowser&Kids.. At least attempt to make something different.


underused
Short (but sweet) SMB3 style levels

Sky Levels :D

Good Mountain Climbing Levels

Changing the File Select stuff (File A, Erase Data, ect)

Changes to Mario's Palette (that isn't horrible)
Originally posted by D4RK M4R10
Overused:
Black Chomps


Not here. Haven't used them once even. I think they're ugly. Generally, hard hacks overuse them in a way I can't even describe.

Originally posted by D4RK M4R10
Underused:
I rarely see Pokeys...


Heh, not here...
--------> Don't follow "Find Roy's Dignity", my hack. Because it's pretty outdated. <--------
Originally posted by Gigyas

No, you don't get what I'm saying. Many people use ExGFX in their hacks, which is custom GFX. But very few people go and change stuff like the powerups, the koopas, etc. Plus I have used the eating block by itself before, quite successfully. Shell puzzles are where you need a shell... to do a puzzle.

Do you mean, like custom sprites? If yes, NO. That needs more than LM.
But okay, I'll add a comment about that eating blocks alone can be good.

Originally posted by Metroid48

No, black chompers, chomps, etc. are the black instant-death plants that yoshi can walk on.

Do you mean the "black pirhana plants", map16 tile 12F? Okay.
Originally posted by Metroid48

It's just when you need to use shells, in combination with blocks, bouncing it, getting a blue koopa to kick, etc. to solve something. A not-so-complex implementation was in Kaizo: There were three ? blocks that each had a green shell in them, with a blue koopa walking ontop of them. You had to hit a block so that the blue koopa would kick it into a slot which would (eventually) deliver it to you.

Okay, I'll add that.
Originally posted by Dark Mario
Overused:

INVISIBLE COIN BLOCKS
Black Chomps
"Perfect" jumps when you have to squeeze through an area with perfect timing or you die.

Underused:

I rarely see Pokeys...

Invisible coin blocks? Okay.
Black chomps? Assuming you mean the same as I think metroid48 means, OK.
"Perfect" jumps? Yes. One-block-high corridors, too.
Pokeys? Okay.

Originally posted by AtomicShroom
One thing I find underused are the diagonal moving grass platforms. I don't play many hacks, so I'm not completely sure.

Yes. I've barely seen even one in a hack.
Originally posted by Gigyas

Overused: P-switch + long string of coins = RUN TO TEH FINISH!!1!
Underused: Good water levels

Okay for both. I'll add Grammar Errors to the "overused", too.
Originally posted by Onyx

Overused
Big boo as End boss with hp++
Levels with 54,252,543,254 of the same custom sprite
The Forest of Illusion OW Theme. --Especially the scary trees. I mean is it That hard to make the Regular/Happy Trees?
Bowser&Kids.. At least attempt to make something different.

underused
Short (but sweet) SMB3 style levels
Sky Levels :D
Good Mountain Climbing Levels
Changing the File Select stuff (File A, Erase Data, ect)
Changes to Mario's Palette (that isn't horrible)

BBB with hp+, too many custom sprites, changing Select File? NO. I wish I could ban everyone that violates the Only LM stuff rule...
FOI theme? Hmmm...That sounds like custom music. Custom music=not LM doable=NO! If it means something else, tell me.
SMB3, sky levels, mountain levels, changing Mario? Okay.

Wow, this seems to get flooded! I did expect some answers, but not ten answers in one day!
<blm> zsnes users are the flatearthers of emulation
Forest of Illusion is custom music? Wtf? Don't talk crap! It's very doable to put that music in other submaps, even with LM (only with LM, for the newb users under us).

If we must talk about LM-only stuff... I took out the sprite list, listen up :

Overused :

Classic Piranha Plant
Bullet Bill Generators
Lots of powerups
Sliding Koopa

Most of you will probably not agree.

Underused:

The Chuck clone that can't be normally accessed via the LM windows (96). (I use it, though, but sporadically atm.) Actually, most unused sprites in the original game are unused in hacks too.
Dark rooms
Diggin' Chuck
Growing/Shrinking Pipe End
Ninji
Moving Ledge Hole for Ghost Houses
Brown platform on a chain
Super Koopa
Balloon
Scale Platforms (I don't even know what they're used for?)
Groundguided Fuzzy/Sparky (generally Fuzzy, Sparky is normally used)
Timed Lift
Grey Moving Castle Block
Candle Flames
Some of the Layer 2 smash commands...

But really, most notably : Coin Game Cloud and Green Shell that won't change colour after Special World has been passed.
I've never seen these and wouldn't know why they would be in hacks, anyway. 2 pink berries will automatically create a coin game cloud, and you still need to take effort. And the latter... I don't see much purpose in it, really.

Correct me if I'm wrong about all these things.
--------> Don't follow "Find Roy's Dignity", my hack. Because it's pretty outdated. <--------
Originally posted by Alcaro
Originally posted by Onyx

Blah Blah Blah

BBB with hp+, too many custom sprites, changing Select File? NO. I wish I could ban everyone that violates the Only LM stuff rule...
FOI theme? Hmmm...That sounds like custom music. Custom music=not LM doable=NO! If it means something else, tell me.
SMB3, sky levels, mountain levels, changing Mario? Okay.


:P

I must have missed the "Only LM Rule"

And did you even read my post when I said
Originally posted by Onyx
The Forest of Illusion OW Theme. --Especially the scary trees. I mean is it That hard to make the Regular/Happy Trees?????


I'm talking about the General Theme of the FOI. Basically the Palette, and the GFX. And don't tell me you can't change the OW GFX in SMW without LM, cause you can. Just use the Super GFX Bypass, and set the GFX to the ones that contain OW stuff.

Originally posted by Alcaro
FOI theme? Hmmm...That sounds like custom music.

Lol, have you played SMW?

Originally posted by Alcaro
changing Select File? NO. I wish I could ban everyone that violates the Only LM stuff rule...


Oh, and you can change the File Secelt Screen in LM. Generally it would be alot harder (if not very ineffective), but it's still possible.
Even doing as little as changing hte Cursor GFX would be enough.

I wish I could ban everyone who doesn't think when they read posts...


Originally posted by Joe13...
Forest of Illusion is custom music? Wtf? Don't talk crap! It's very doable to put that music in other submaps, even with LM (only with LM, for the newb users under us).

I know it's not accurate. I thought "theme" meant "musical theme", but it seems that the correct meaning is "graphical theme". Okay, I'll add a comment about this.

Originally posted by Joe13...
If we must talk about LM-only stuff... I took out the sprite list, listen up :

How am I supposed to listen to something written? I've got no speech synthetisis program
! Ignore that, it's just dumb...
Originally posted by Joe13...
Overused :

Classic Piranha Plant
Bullet Bill Generators
Lots of powerups
Sliding Koopa

Most of you will probably not agree.


I actually think the CPP is underused. But if it has a fish stem, it's overused.
BBG seems to be used in a good way.
Powerup masses? Okay.
Sliding Koopa? That seems underused to me.

And yes, I did disagree with most.

Originally posted by Joe13...
Underused:

The Chuck clone that can't be normally accessed via the LM windows (96). (I use it, though, but sporadically atm.) Actually, most unused sprites in the original game are unused in hacks too.
Dark rooms
Diggin' Chuck
Growing/Shrinking Pipe End
Ninji
Moving Ledge Hole for Ghost Houses
Brown platform on a chain
Super Koopa
Balloon
Scale Platforms (I don't even know what they're used for?)
Groundguided Fuzzy/Sparky (generally Fuzzy, Sparky is normally used)
Timed Lift
Grey Moving Castle Block
Candle Flames
Some of the Layer 2 smash commands...

But really, most notably : Coin Game Cloud and Green Shell that won't change colour after Special World has been passed.
I've never seen these and wouldn't know why they would be in hacks, anyway. 2 pink berries will automatically create a coin game cloud, and you still need to take effort. And the latter... I don't see much purpose in it, really.

Okay for all, except Candle Flames and the green shell.
And I don't want everything to be equally used. For example: Big Boo is meant to be used less than Koopa.


Originally posted by Onyx

And did you even read my post when I said
Originally posted by Onyx
The Forest of Illusion OW Theme. --Especially the scary trees. I mean is it That hard to make the Regular/Happy Trees?????

I read everything in this thread, but I can misunderstand stuff.
Making the trees happy, you say? So that's what you meant... Okay.

Originally posted by Onyx

I'm talking about the General Theme of the FOI. Basically the Palette, and the GFX. And don't tell me you can't change the OW GFX in SMW without LM, cause you can. Just use the Super GFX Bypass, and set the GFX to the ones that contain OW stuff.

I know. I'm actually doing this in my hack, in level 105.
By the way, my level 105 is The Hub, containing "links" to the levels in progress.

Originally posted by Onyx
Originally posted by Alcaro
FOI theme? Hmmm...That sounds like custom music.

Lol, have you played SMW?

Yes, I have. It's better than many hacks. As I said, I must have misunderstood something.

Originally posted by Onyx
Originally posted by Alcaro
changing Select File? NO. I wish I could ban everyone that violates the Only LM stuff rule...


Oh, and you can change the File Secelt Screen in LM. Generally it would be alot harder (if not very ineffective), but it's still possible.
Even doing as little as changing hte Cursor GFX would be enough.

Aha, I thought you meant changing the tilemap. So: Okay.
Wait...the cursor is on layer 3! 2BPP GFX isn't changable in LM!
And don't come say "Yes, it is. It'll look messy while editing, though." I count that as "not LM doable". An example of a mess is 8x8 tiles 6D0 to 6FF (use ctrl+shift+pagedown).

Originally posted by Onyx
I wish I could ban everyone who doesn't think when they read posts...

I think that you can misunderstand stuff, too.

I'll also add that 1up appear blocks and invisible blocks with treasures seems underused, but I likely just missed most of them.
<blm> zsnes users are the flatearthers of emulation