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US Supreme Court strikes down Defense of Marriage Act, 5-4
Forum Index - Sunken Ghost Ship - Forum Graveyard - Hot off the Press - US Supreme Court strikes down Defense of Marriage Act, 5-4
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This doesn't fully solve the issue since they're still letting states decide themselves whether or not to ban gay marriage, which you KNOW the ones that already banned it (or tried to) WILL, but at least it's a step in the right direction! Perhaps one day, the Supreme Court will rule broadly that same-sex marriage is allowed in all states, period, and that no matter what, they deserve the same benefits as heterosexual couples.

Still progress! Azurik's gonna be so happy.


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I do believe that all noncriminal people should be given equal rights, and to be homosexual is no crime. I think it's still natural, just less common, and not always a decision made on one's own, for a man to love another man or a woman to love another woman, and their union should have all the rights of marriage. The church may want to define marriage as union between a man and a woman, but I don't see why that definition should mean they have more legal rights than people of the same sex who happen to care for each other so deeply, especially since you don't choose which sex you're born as. It's completely unfair.

I am really happy to see DOMA struck down and this woman get the refund she deserves. I am sad, however, that this means Azurik will probably not be moving to Massachusetts to marry his future boyfriend because now we can't meet up and play video games after work. {B( Congratulations to LGBT for the victory, though.
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Homosexuality IS completly natural. Many animals (Dolphins) can be homosexual. You also can't choose your sexuality. It's been scientifically proven. I couldn't become homosexual, because it's not a choice. It's decided from birth.

Anyway, glad to hear that this crappy law is gone. Hope that gay marriage is eventually allowed everywhere in the states.

- BlackMageMario


It doesnt matter if its been scientifically proven or not, people will still just claim the scientists will be payed off. Its a shame the decision was so close too. The fact that this is even an issue at all is disgusting but at leastw e are getting somewhere. Unfortunetely though, considered there are still people in the states who are against interracial marriage(I wish I was making that up), there will always be discrimination against homosexuals, even if their marriage is allowed all throughout the states. We just have to wait for those idiots to die off like the ones who dont want interracial marriage.

I sort of ranted and that isnt really fair since what happened is actually a good thing. (:

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Originally posted by BlackMageMario
Homosexuality IS completly natural. Many animals (Dolphins) can be homosexual. You also can't choose your sexuality. It's been scientifically proven. I couldn't become homosexual, because it's not a choice. It's decided from birth.

Oh good, I'm glad it's not something people choose to do. Because then it would be abhorrent.

Also I would like to see that "scientific proof", because you are 100% wrong.

Also yay, I'm glad this is gone.
Originally posted by HuFlungDu
Originally posted by BlackMageMario
Homosexuality IS completly natural. Many animals (Dolphins) can be homosexual. You also can't choose your sexuality. It's been scientifically proven. I couldn't become homosexual, because it's not a choice. It's decided from birth.

Oh good, I'm glad it's not something people choose to do. Because then it would be abhorrent.


Exactly I could grant the concession that it's 100% unnatural and a choice and conservatives still wouldn't have the ghost of a point because wearing clothing is unnatural and driving automobiles is unnatural and vaccines and hospitals are pretty unnatural too.

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Originally posted by HuFlungDu
Originally posted by BlackMageMario
Homosexuality IS completly natural. Many animals (Dolphins) can be homosexual. You also can't choose your sexuality. It's been scientifically proven. I couldn't become homosexual, because it's not a choice. It's decided from birth.

Oh good, I'm glad it's not something people choose to do. Because then it would be abhorrent.

Also I would like to see that "scientific proof", because you are 100% wrong.


I've read in many reliable sources and heard from many people that it is not a choice. And don't make it sound like I'd be against gay people if they could choose, of course I wouldn't be.

- BlackMageMario

EDIT: Proof:

Originally posted by APA,org
Most people experience little or no sense of choice about their sexual orientation.


Here.

Here.
Did you even read that article, or did you just Google until you found something you thought supported your claim? Because I actually read it.

Originally posted by same article
Some people might argue that if you are “genetically gay” but the thought of homosexuality nauseates you, then you just haven’t accepted the fact that you really are gay. That argument is based on the assumption that sexual preference is purely biological; therefore, it has no place in a discussion about the possible causes of homosexuality.


Originally posted by BlackMageMario
And don't make it sound like I'd be against gay people if they could choose, of course I wouldn't be.


I'm not saying you think that, I'm saying that's a dangerous and useless argument, never make it again. I spent years being against the legalization of homosexual marriage because people made arguments like that because it's incredibly easy to refute (I just did) or simply ignore. You are giving credence to an argument that is not relevant when you say that. Would you argue against a kkk member that it was ok to have interracial marriage because it's natural for people to be attracted to people of other races? It is a wrong argument and will never convince anyone.

Edit: I mean good God, the end of that article is saying the same thing I am.
Actually, it's perfectly to make that argument, IFF someone says "I hate gays cause it's unnatural", just to prove them wrong.
But yeah, don't ever use it to actually promote gay marriage, only to prove retards wrong.

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Even then, you are allowing for the idea that if it isn't natural then it would be ok to hate them for it. It is not. This is particularly harmful because the science on the subject is still so inconclusive, so even if you say it to "prove them wrong", they can justly walk away secure in the knowledge that you have given them no reason to change their mind. Again, you don't argue with a white supremacist that interracial marriage is natural, if you do you will be stuck there forever because it's a moot point. You ask them what kind of psychopath they are that that would matter to them.


Yeah thats not a very good argument against legalizing gay marriage. Oh wait, there is none.

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I probably shouldn't have said that it was scientifically proven, for that I appologuise. However, still doesn't mean that homosexuality isn't natural, and that many people don't feel like they have a choice in their sexuality. Those are the points I were trying to make.

I also wasn't using it as an agurement to promote gay marriage, I was just stating what I had learned from other people, and I'd usually only say it when assholes say that homosexuality is not natural.

And I did read the article. I really only realized later that it didn't support my arguement. Be glad that I am not like the majority of the internet though and tried to get sources. And you haven't commented on the two other sources I've linked. There are still other sources you can check though if you want. That, and you could also provide your own sources for your argument too.

- BlackMageMario
Choice is very relevant when it comes to expectations. If you expect someone to do X, but they're completely unable and incapable of doing X, then you only have yourself to blame, not them.

Choice isn't relevant in this case because being gay isn't bad. Expecting someone to give up something completely harmless and in fact beneficial to themselves and others is ridiculous.

The "naturalness" if something is irrelevant in pretty much every conceivable case.



Anywho, could we turn this into a celebratory thread? Discussion's fine but let's keep a happy tone.
Originally posted by Kaijyuu
Anywho, could we turn this into a celebratory thread? Discussion's fine but let's keep a happy tone.


You may be forgetting that some people aren't celebrating. I, for one, believe homosexuality is a sin; heck, the sermon was on sexual boundaries today (premarital sex and pornography was included in that). I am one of the few Christians that doesn't really care what the government does about it, but I believe the tone in this thread is unfairly one-sided.

Anyway, I'm pretty neutral on this. Considering I'm incredibly left for where I live, I have a feeling that a lot of people where I live will not agree with me, but whatever. LGBT people are people just like us, and can get their sins forgiven if they choose.
Um, even religious folk should be celebrating. Separation of church and state and all that. I don't want to shower the thread with disapproval toward the evil folk who are wanting religious laws implemented into government. Instead, I'd prefer to ignore them and celebrate.

You can claim whatever arbitrary things you want as sins, but you should agree that it's a Bad Idea for sins that don't harm anyone to have laws made about them. Imagine if some other religion became dominant and starting enforcing its laws on you! Jain hindus would force you to go vegetarian.


I do realize there are a lot of bad people out there who want to shove their religious ideas down other people's throats (even going so far as making them laws, as was with the Defense of Marriage Act), but I'd prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt and assume they're not one of those first. It's plain unfair to christians to assume every single one is homophobic.
Only true Christians are not homophobic, or discriminate in any way.

Egadd, if you want to follow Jesus, then treat everyone the same.

That's all he wants you to do.

- BlackMageMario

EDIT: You know what Egadd, since you love music, I'm going to show you a song.

Listen to this. Listen to every word. Listen, and be saved.
I do agree with Egadd that homosexuality is a sin. But, everyone sins, and you shouldn't judge someone just because they sin differently than you. Premarital sex is a sin that is mentioned a lot in the bible, yet it happens everyday. I don't see people getting extremely mad about that.

I'm perfectly fine with people being gay. As people, we should have the right to like whoever/whatever(though that's kinda weird to like an object) we want.
Originally posted by Kaijyuu
You can claim whatever arbitrary things you want as sins, but you should agree that it's a Bad Idea for sins that don't harm anyone to have laws made about them. Imagine if some other religion became dominant and starting enforcing its laws on you! Jain hindus would force you to go vegetarian.


The difference is that Christianity is the only true path, and every other religion is wrong!

In America, at least, there will never be any equality as long as a large portion of the population still believes that outside influences are tearing the country apart. It's really come to the point where I don't feel welcome in the country anymore--it doesn't affect me personally too much in my home state, but knowing that these people exist is incredibly disheartening.

But this thread isn't about religion, of course. Don't get me wrong, I'm incredibly glad that DOMA got shut down, but as long as ignorance exists nothing is going to change. There really is nobody to blame for this though, it's natural for a society to want to protect their culture, and the country was largely founded by Christians.

I think the whole idea of advocating for gay "marriage" is pretty dumb to begin with, since most of the debate is over the semantics of marriage more than anything. I really have no idea what alternatives would exist, however. Civil Unions or something like that I guess? I really don't understand the whole system myself, but I really see no problem with allowing those if the state is truly secular. It's a bit ridiculous to not let people engage in a harmless partnership.

In advance, I honestly don't mean to offend any Christians or homosexuals with my post. I really do understand the sentiments on both sides, which is why I think it's incredibly difficult for a suitable agreement for both sides to be reached.
Whatever ever happened to "Thou shall love thy neighbour"? I feel as if their is no excuse not to celebrate, even if one does believe that homosexuality is a sin. Shouldn't a Christian still show support to those they don't agree with? I'm not saying one should deny their beliefs in any case, but they should still be respectful to those who think differently from them and live different lifestyles. Everyone deserves to be treated equally, no matter who they are or what they believe in
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