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ZMZ: Snes9X and bsnes for ZSNES lovers
Forum Index - Sunken Ghost Ship - C3 Museum - Summer 2013 - ZMZ: Snes9X and bsnes for ZSNES lovers
Pages: « 1 2 3 »
ZMZ
ZMZThe schizophrenic emulatorThe schizophrenic emulator


ZMZ is a tool I've been working on for the last couple of months. It combines the GUI of ZSNES with a Libretro backend; this allows people who like ZSNES' interface but dislike its poor emulation accuracy to get the best of both worlds.

It ships with Snes9X 1.53 by default; if it's too slow, try Snes9X-Next, or if you prefer bsnes, grab one from the same source (note that SPC dumping only works with Snes9X cores); it will mess up if you give it a non-SNES core, though. To switch core, go to Misc->Libretro. (I planned on making it look roughly like the ROM chooser, but I kept procrastrinating.)

Download here. (If you want to compile it yourself, use only Makefile.ms; the others haven't been kept up to date. You're unlikely to get it to work under DOS or Linux either.)

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<blm> zsnes users are the flatearthers of emulation
Originally posted by Alcaro
(If you want to compile it yourself, use only Makefile.ms; the others haven't been kept up to date. You're unlikely to get it to work under DOS or Linux either.)

Seems to work in wine (I had some sound issues, but installing Debian package lib32asound2-plugins fixed them). Anyway, I'm not sure whatever it's Wine issue or not, but IPS auto-patching doesn't seem to work. It shows IPS when loading the ROM, but it isn't actually patched (yeah, I don't patch IPS files for some reason).

Also, it would be nice to have filters (like hq2x), because the standard, blurry interpolation is ugly. But I assume it's on TODO list (like cheats).

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Legacy ports zip (now that those went down because Dropbox)
Hmm, the mouse acts a little too much like a real UI. When you leave and come back in another part of the window, the internal mouse goes to your current mouse, instead of the other way around, as is proper. This means that if I click on the icon to focus the window, my mouse stays exactly where I last left it instead of jumping into the ZSNES window. It's also a little too consistent with giving control of my mouse back to me after leaving the window. In the original, almost half the time I'm no longer able to see my mouse after I leave the ZSNES window. You should look into supporting that. Finally, if I'm focused on another application, instead of just making my mouse disappear with no effect on the ui when I scroll over your window, the mouse continues to work. That simply won't do.

In the options, I noticed that you default to PNG screenshots instead of BMP. Why would I want to take up less space without any loss in quality, that's what I ask to you. Also, the ability to use the system native UI for file choosing is scary. Too many characters in a row.

The text is a little blurry in windowed mode, and when I fullscreen and try to return to windowed mode, it sends me back to fullscreen if I move the mouse too much, and also the mouse doesn't work at that point (kudos for trying, but it's just not the same). I need to use the keyboard to exit the application during the short period of time I have before I get sent back to fullscreen.

Besides that I'm loving it. Big fan of the 8x8 fonts and the fact that it just keeps one aspect ratio regardless of the size of the window. It just wouldn't do for the UI to resize except as a naive scale so that, regardless of how big you make the window, you can always fit the exact same amount of stuff on the screen. How else could you retain the wonderful 8-10 character limit in dropdown menus and and the 3 character limit in control text fields? I don't know what I would do if my up arrow weren't referred to as "C8H". The ever important background effects are done very well. I'd be lost without my fire/snow when I want to open a menu.

Overall, just great work. It was about time someone did this.
Originally posted by GlitchMr
Seems to work in wine (I had some sound issues, but installing Debian package lib32asound2-plugins fixed them).

Yep, works for me too.

Quote
Anyway, I'm not sure whatever it's Wine issue or not, but IPS auto-patching doesn't seem to work. It shows IPS when loading the ROM, but it isn't actually patched (yeah, I don't patch IPS files for some reason).

Sounds like I hook too early in the ROM loading code. Lazy testers.
Fixed. I'll submit it tomorrow, I'll assume that's not the only thing I missed.

Quote
Also, it would be nice to have filters (like hq2x), because the standard, blurry interpolation is ugly. But I assume it's on TODO list (like cheats).

I didn't change how ZSNES acts when it comes to filters. They're off by default, but they work.
(I prefer Super2xSaI, but that's a matter of preference.)

Originally posted by HuFlungDu
Hmm, the mouse acts a little too much like a real UI. When you leave and come back in another part of the window, the internal mouse goes to your current mouse, instead of the other way around, as is proper. This means that if I click on the icon to focus the window, my mouse stays exactly where I last left it instead of jumping into the ZSNES window. It's also a little too consistent with giving control of my mouse back to me after leaving the window. In the original, almost half the time I'm no longer able to see my mouse after I leave the ZSNES window. You should look into supporting that. Finally, if I'm focused on another application, instead of just making my mouse disappear with no effect on the ui when I scroll over your window, the mouse continues to work. That simply won't do.



Quote
In the options, I noticed that you default to PNG screenshots instead of BMP. Why would I want to take up less space without any loss in quality, that's what I ask to you. Also, the ability to use the system native UI for file choosing is scary. Too many characters in a row.



Quote
The text is a little blurry in windowed mode, and when I fullscreen and try to return to windowed mode, it sends me back to fullscreen if I move the mouse too much, and also the mouse doesn't work at that point (kudos for trying, but it's just not the same). I need to use the keyboard to exit the application during the short period of time I have before I get sent back to fullscreen.

I have no idea if this bug report is legit, or if it's a bug report at all.

Quote
Besides that I'm loving it. Big fan of the 8x8 fonts and the fact that it just keeps one aspect ratio regardless of the size of the window. It just wouldn't do for the UI to resize except as a naive scale so that, regardless of how big you make the window, you can always fit the exact same amount of stuff on the screen. How else could you retain the wonderful 8-10 character limit in dropdown menus and and the 3 character limit in control text fields? I don't know what I would do if my up arrow weren't referred to as "C8H". The ever important background effects are done very well. I'd be lost without my fire/snow when I want to open a menu.



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<blm> zsnes users are the flatearthers of emulation
Originally posted by Alcaro
Quote
The text is a little blurry in windowed mode, and when I fullscreen and try to return to windowed mode, it sends me back to fullscreen if I move the mouse too much, and also the mouse doesn't work at that point (kudos for trying, but it's just not the same). I need to use the keyboard to exit the application during the short period of time I have before I get sent back to fullscreen.

I have no idea if this bug report is legit, or if it's a bug report at all.

The only joke in that paragraph was the suggestion that you created the mouse bug to act more similarly to the original ZSNES GUI.
Hard to know when the other three paragraphs are full of sarcasm.

Fullscreen bugged rather badly for me on Wine, but I blamed that on Wine instead of ZMZ. I think it's fixed now; same download link as last time.
I also fixed some widgets (scrollbar in video config panel, most if not all buttons, probably some others) ignoring mouse input in windowed mode. Apparently they don't like seeing -32768 when they expect 0 or 1.

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<blm> zsnes users are the flatearthers of emulation
So for some reason, I can't change the resolution, the set buttons don't work.
Intentional?


Redownload, I fixed that bug about ten minutes ago. (I accidentally posted before submitting the update.)

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<blm> zsnes users are the flatearthers of emulation
Originally posted by Alcaro
Hard to know when the other three paragraphs are full of sarcasm.

To be fair, I wasn't actively lying about how the program acts in the other ones, just about my reactions to how it acts.

Originally posted by Alcaro
Fullscreen bugged rather badly for me on Wine, but I blamed that on Wine instead of ZMZ. I think it's fixed now; same download link as last time.
I also fixed some widgets (scrollbar in video config panel, most if not all buttons, probably some others) ignoring mouse input in windowed mode. Apparently they don't like seeing -32768 when they expect 0 or 1.

Yeah, that seems to have fixed it.



Now I feel the need to mention that I love how you emulated the scroll bars. Scrolling the selection after the bar reaches the bottom? Lock the mouse into the area of the scroll bar? Brilliant.
Alcaro was nice enough to give me the opportunity to be one of the testers for this. I really would encourage any zsnes user to adopt it. I always had stuck with zsnes for the GUI and the features but regretted its inaccuracies. This addresses both matters. It's like SNES for 2013. It's my emulator of choice now. Alcaro -- you never explained what zmz stands for!

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[?] Miscellaneous Helpful Hints
If I moderated your hack, there was apparently a 90 percent chance it was rejected.
Oh, I'm really interested in this as I always wanted an accurate emulator with ZSNES GUI, just a question though, does it support rewinds? That's one of the main reasons I still use ZSNES; sometimes I fuck up something unintentionally (read: glitch the game horribly for doing odd moves) and that's the only way to get to the game again.

Edit: Seems like it does, yay.

Edit 2: Hm, I can't move the emulator window by holding left and right click, is that intentional?
Even if ZSNES's interface, from a usability point of view, might be nothing worth copying, it's hard to overestimate the power of habituation. Despite the interface being completely out-of-date, many people (including me, I admit) have a hard time letting go of it simply because ZSNES is the first they've encountered.

In the back of my mind I've always wished for an emulator that felt familiar yet actually emulated something - a wish I'm sure many others had - and Alcaro once again put an admirable amount of effort into making that wish come true. (I'm happy I could be of help by finding a couple of bugs.)

Thanks for making this, Alcaro - I sure hope this won't be met with as much suspicion and hostility as FLIPS was.

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only complaint is that speedup is still s9x-tier (skippy)

p good besides that
There is little tic noises that happens sometimes on the audio, is this a snes9x issue?
^ That's probably you using music uncompatible with accurate emulators lol.



I got to agree with Ladida, the turbo mode is rather annoying. I also hate one of my speakers for not working; I'm having some trouble with making the sounds work accurately (not like ZSNES is accurate anyway :P), but that's more of an issue of mine.

Other than that, that was a really good idea. I'm not sure if I will make it my main emulator, but I'll keep in on my desktop. Let's see what happens!

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Twitter
Originally posted by KY2010
There is little tic noises that happens sometimes on the audio, is this a snes9x issue?

i get it all the time in s9x, never zsnes. perhaps due to cpu speed/vsync/whatever. adjusting buffer length (in s9x) will help but not fix it

sorry for derail lolcaro, i am ready for my ban now #ab{~:o}
How come whenever I click libretro and select the .dll for bsnes it crashes horribly?
Originally posted by Masterlink
Oh, I'm really interested in this as I always wanted an accurate emulator with ZSNES GUI, just a question though, does it support rewinds? That's one of the main reasons I still use ZSNES; sometimes I fuck up something unintentionally (read: glitch the game horribly for doing odd moves) and that's the only way to get to the game again.

Yep, works fine. It'd be a poor zsnes clone if it didn't rewind, wouldn't it?
(Pretty sure I needed to have a tester point it out, though.)

Originally posted by Icemask
How come whenever I click libretro and select the .dll for bsnes it crashes horribly?

Apparently something broke. I've fixed one bug, but there's still another in there, and it's not really friendly with helping me figure out where it is... I'll upload a fix as soon as I've figured out what exactly it's doing.

Edit: Done. That sure was irritating.

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<blm> zsnes users are the flatearthers of emulation
Awesome to (finally) have a version of ZSNES that's as accurate as SNES9X and BSNES.

However, for some reason I'm not getting any sound when using a BSNES DLL. Also, neither the BSNES core nor the SNES9X core will let me rewind or disable/enable layers (it says "Not supported by core").
Rewind works for me. Maybe you connected it to the same button as something else? I'm pretty sure neither ZSNES nor ZMZ likes that.
Or maybe you forgot connecting it to anything at all (config->saves->state->rewind).

Layer/sound toggle is since they don't exist in the Libretro ports (or, in the case of bsnes, at all). I mentioned it to the Libretro guys, but I think they see it as low priority. (I didn't tell that this is what I'm working on.)
Everything that doesn't work but still exists is planned to add as soon as a valid Libretro equivalent is added, or I'm told that it's broken. I have removed plenty of buttons that won't make sense for any other emulator core, for example the new GFX engine.

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<blm> zsnes users are the flatearthers of emulation
Pages: « 1 2 3 »
Forum Index - Sunken Ghost Ship - C3 Museum - Summer 2013 - ZMZ: Snes9X and bsnes for ZSNES lovers

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