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Government shutdown --How do you feel about it?
Forum Index - Sunken Ghost Ship - Forum Graveyard - Hot off the Press - Government shutdown --How do you feel about it?
Pages: « 1 2 3 »
Originally posted by HuFlungDu
Originally posted by Kipernal
Socialist stuff

I have a feeling you don't really know what the Affordable Care Act is.

Oh hey, look you replaced Kipernal's post with a buzzword. Bravo on that argumentation.

But even though you didn't go through the actual effort to make an argument, it's true that ObamaCare is a poor, poor substitute for universal health care at best, and at worst just... bad.

Having said that, most people are not educated on the subject. Mostly because it's arguable whether people in the news and politicians even know much about ObamaCare, let alone the people listening to them! I caution you to take what even I say with a grain of salt, as I have not read the law myself. But the way I see it this is the biggest thing you'll see change with ObamaCare on your end.

If you already have insurance through your job, Obamacare probably doesn't effect your monthly premiums *immediately* though it can cause them to rise over time. If you don’t have insurance, on the other hand, you’ll be required to get a plan on Obamacare’s new marketplaces and you’ll have to pay a premium for it, which depending on your area will most likely be relatively hefty.

Of course, there's more to it. For one thing, it's more government spending, since more people will be put on medicare and medicaid as a result of provisions in the law.

Individually, it can do good things for those already on health insurance.

Any preventative care is now available for now out of pocket cost, including STD/STi screening, blood pressure screening, birth control, the works. More maternity care is also covered by the law.

However, for those not on health insurance, it means a hefty new premium to pay out to insurance companies. The government hardly sees a cent of that money, all the while they're paying a lot of money to put more people on medicare and medicaid, not to mention the cost of these copays has to be covered somehow, which will likely be by your insurance.

The last thing I think we need right now is extra government spending. To hear Fox News tell it, you'd think ObamaCare will open a gateway to the underworld for 10,000 years of darkness. It's not quite so bad, but it's still quite the problematic law. Some things(like not needing to pay copays for a number of preventative treatment) can be nice, until you see insurance premiums start rising, and government spending rise.

I like the idea of universal health care 100%, but here in the US given the current political climate, it can't work. There's just too much debt. And this 'pseudo-universal' care law likely wont fare much better.
Originally posted by MidoriMelody
Oh hey, look you replaced Kipernal's post with a buzzword. Bravo on that argumentation.

Oh hey, look you completely misunderstood the point of my post. Bravo on that comprehension.

Rather than grab all the bits that my post relied on, I simplified his post to indicate that I was replying to the parts where he seemed to misunderstand what the ACA is, namely where he mentioned the socialist things he assumed it does, which is does not. My post had no point beyond that he did not understand what the ACA was. If I had wanted to argue against the ACA or Socialism in a larger sense (Or any sense, since any person with a brain could see that my point was that the ACA is not socialist), you can be quite assured that I would have.
Originally posted by BlackMageMario
Crisis averted. I just heard on RTE news that a deal has been reached.

Although I'm Irish, thank god this was avoided. This could have turned out very bad.

- BlackMageMario

A deal has NOT been reached. It passed through the Senate but it still needs to pass through the House.

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~ Music's got me feeling so free... ~
Originally posted by HuFlungDu
Oh hey, look you completely misunderstood the point of my post. Bravo on that comprehension.

Rather than grab all the bits that my post relied on, I simplified his post to indicate that I was replying to the parts where he seemed to misunderstand what the ACA is, namely where he mentioned the socialist things he assumed it does, which is does not. My post had no point beyond that he did not understand what the ACA was. If I had wanted to argue against the ACA or Socialism in a larger sense (Or any sense, since any person with a brain could see that my point was that the ACA is not socialist), you can be quite assured that I would have.

Ahh, I see. I guess I messed up there then, but I would also venture to guess that Poe's Law played a part in that.
Originally posted by MidoriMelody
Ahh, I see. I guess I messed up there then, but I would also venture to guess that Poe's Law played a part in that.

I mean, I wasn't being satirical. Just precise and lazy.

Originally posted by OneMoreTime
A deal has NOT been reached. It passed through the Senate but it still needs to pass through the House.

So in other words nothing has changed, since it was the house holding it up in the first place?
HFD's original post was complementary, anyway.


Also it passed the house, or so I've been told, and just needs to be signed by the President. Unless Obama went crazy or got bodysnatched, he's going to sign it.

EDIT: Yup, done.

Also crazy people being crazy.

EDITEDIT: Even more crazy! (the audio from the microphone she grabbed)
Saw this on one of your links:

Originally posted by Milo deVere
This past ten days, a minority faction of the republican nearly succeeded in what Al-Qaeda has been attempting to do for the past two decades; subvert the American democratic republic form of government, cripple the global economies, particularly Western nations and promote civil strife and despair among all Americans.

The TPT's (tea party terrorists) must be stopped at the polls in 2014.

So... The Tea Party is like China? Why even defund public healthcare? are non-millionaires that much of a burden on society to them?

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Let's milk Sunny Milk. Then she'll have enough money to fund Sunny Milk Real Estate.
Everypony's digging with a shovel
Originally posted by HuFlungDu
I have a feeling you don't really know what the Affordable Care Act is.


You'd be mostly right. As I said, I'm nowhere near an expert on any of this kind of stuff, I was pretty much just summing up how I felt about the situation. This is why I'm not a news anchor, I'm just a string of text ranting on the internets.

I mean, personally I do believe that universal health care as a fallback, not a replacement, for existing health care, is a good thing. Without actually having empirical data in front of me, though, written in a language that stupid people like me can understand, I can't actually say how well the ACA does that. Though now that it's actually enacted, regardless of how good or bad it is, I'd imagine it would, from here on out, get better, not worse.
I should get a new layout.

Probably won't, though.


Your knowledge could be worse. Its not like you think it creates death panels and gives away free insurance to illegal aliens.

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Yeah, so what if I haven't shoveled out my signature yet, I'll get to it later.
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Originally posted by Kipernal
You'd be mostly right. As I said, I'm nowhere near an expert on any of this kind of stuff, I was pretty much just summing up how I felt about the situation. This is why I'm not a news anchor, I'm just a string of text ranting on the internets.

I mean, personally I do believe that universal health care as a fallback, not a replacement, for existing health care, is a good thing. Without actually having empirical data in front of me, though, written in a language that stupid people like me can understand, I can't actually say how well the ACA does that. Though now that it's actually enacted, regardless of how good or bad it is, I'd imagine it would, from here on out, get better, not worse.

Primarily it forces everyone to buy health insurance. Because the reason poor people didn't have health insurance before was because they were just too damn stupid.

Originally posted by Kaijyuu
I put the wrong link before: Here's the audio from the crazy person during the House of Representatives vote.

I thought you meant crazy in the normal internet "A Republican" kind of way. Apparently you chose your words wisely.
Oh there are plenty of crazy representatives there too, with the crazy along the lines of racist, sexist, transphobic, plutocratic, etc. This one was the religious and conspiracy theory type of crazy.
Well, our government's back; now to try and sort this mess out for the next two months when they have to renew again. In the meantime, the furloughed workers are being paid for the duration they were laid off for.

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I no longer have interest in SMW Hacking as I did when I first started several years ago.
Originally posted by Wiimeiser
Saw this on one of your links:

Originally posted by Milo deVere
This past ten days, a minority faction of the republican nearly succeeded in what Al-Qaeda has been attempting to do for the past two decades; subvert the American democratic republic form of government, cripple the global economies, particularly Western nations and promote civil strife and despair among all Americans.

The TPT's (tea party terrorists) must be stopped at the polls in 2014.

So... The Tea Party is like China? Why even defund public healthcare? are non-millionaires that much of a burden on society to them?

They want it defunded so it dies NOW, instead of after it affects millions of US citizens who feel it's going to destroy their lives because they can't afford it. That's what my family believes; we may be right, we may be wrong, but either way, this is the person they fight for.

That quote honestly reads to me like someone who just plain hates the Tea Party and will take any chance they get to liken them to terrorists who are OBVIOUSLY trying to destroy us from within. :/


<Adam> I feel like smwc is a prostitute now, because we put up a porn ad for money

Remember, people! Telepathy is a wooonderful magic!
If you can't afford health insurance, then dear god, I hope no one in your family gets medical problems as they're 100x more expensive without it.


Anyway, "destroy America" is definitely hyperbole, but anyone who was pushing for a default definitely wanted to do some serious and needless damage.


EDIT: More crazy. (or more accurately, stupid and impressionable) This one's from my state, too.
Originally posted by Riolu180
]
They want it defunded so it dies NOW, instead of after it affects millions of US citizens who feel it's going to destroy their lives because they can't afford it. That's what my family believes; we may be right, we may be wrong, but either way, this is the person they fight for.

That quote honestly reads to me like someone who just plain hates the Tea Party and will take any chance they get to liken them to terrorists who are OBVIOUSLY trying to destroy us from within. :/

The issue is though that such an action covers no ground. Imagine if you will that a Batman who had recently been beaten and robbed by a petty criminal approaches Bane. He says that if Bane doesn't stop his evil plans, he will proceed to punt babies out of windows. Does that make any sense to you? Because it really doesn't to me.

A move like this is very similar. I think that this health care reform is a poorly timed, poorly worded law, but shutting down the government to try to stop a law from passing(that has ALREADY passed) is not only reminiscent of the analogy above, but also arguably even more disruptive in many ways. It has effects on government worldwide, not just in the US, and the tea party is causing collateral damage FAR beyond what is necessary because of a single law that they don't like.

You can say they're fighting for you all you like. But at the end of the day, they're the ones needlessly causing massive political damage and outstandingly failing at gaining any ground on the law they're trying to stop.


I've been pretty impressed with most peoples(in this thread) ability to discuss this without letting political bias play much of a role. Discussing both sides fairly like in the post above. Its something that is impossible to find in the real world.

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Yeah, so what if I haven't shoveled out my signature yet, I'll get to it later.
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Originally posted by BloodyToothBrush
I've been pretty impressed with most peoples(in this thread) ability to discuss this without letting political bias play much of a role. Discussing both sides fairly like in the post above. Its something that is impossible to find in the real world.

I'm flattered, but I disagree with you.

Now, look. I don't want to be accused of being biased; favouring one political party or point of view over another.
But I am a moderate leftist at the end of the day. I have prejudices against my right-winged friends. Especially people on the far right. These are facts that I am stating for the record.
As much as I would like to call myself unbiased, I'm not. And I wont take such a title.


I ment nothing more then you presented both sides of the argument in a fair light. There are a lot of people on both the left and right who cannot do this.

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Yeah, so what if I haven't shoveled out my signature yet, I'll get to it later.
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Originally posted by MidoriMelody
Now, look. I don't want to be accused of being biased; favouring one political party or point of view over another.
But I am a moderate leftist at the end of the day. I have prejudices against my right-winged friends. Especially people on the far right. These are facts that I am stating for the record.
As much as I would like to call myself unbiased, I'm not. And I wont take such a title.


His point was that you weren't being a dick about your point of view.

Anyway, getting this thread back on track, I don't see this as more than a grab for attention from the Tea Party. Because of their small sphere of influence (if they had been stronger, the shutdown would still be going on) I think they're just trying to get the interest of people who want a far-right America without the anarchy and crap (and trust me, I know people who think this was a fantastic move). My view is that the move was ineffective, though Obamacare is really ineffective as well so I guess the moral is you gotta pick yer poison.
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