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Ending Credits and Music
Forum Index - Events - Super Mario World Central Production 2 Completion Project - SMWCP2 Archive - Ending Credits and Music
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Extras



I should have something witty to put here (even if it's just to update dated info), shouldn't I?

Advertising Space

Originally posted by Torchkas
lol site PR


Whether you like it or not, it is a very real issue the mods/admins have to deal with.

Originally posted by rwhan
If this is such a huge problem why was this not addressed way earlier? If a lot of people feel so strongly about this, why jump this bandwagon now?


At least for me, the last version of the credits I watched before a final version was posted never reached that far. On top of that, I've been busy focusing on trying to get other, personal needs trying to be taken care of.

EDIT: Do NOT try to carry this discussion the "pantsu" scene any further unless an admin states otherwise.

Originally posted by MrDeePay
EDIT: Do NOT try to carry this discussion the "pantsu" scene any further unless an admin states otherwise.

bugger off, wanker (also, you typoed)


i hope it's ok that, as the source of the problem, i give my opinion on a few things and respond to some other things.

as much as I disagree with many of MrDeePay's points and views, he is right in that I should have learned my lesson from last time. Even though it's no longer a full-on naked woman, I should have realized a simple panty drop would still be too out-of-place for this hack. which brings me to the credits...

I do not see why the rest of the credits are not getting the same attention as the pantsu drop. as the creator of the credits, I can tell you that I created them with full intention to be completely out-of-place, even going so far as to have them inspired by anime done by the studio that does bizarre and risque the best: Shaft. I think only HFD has seen my comments in the credits source, so I'll post it here:

Code
LDA !event
JSR EXECUTEPTR
dw EV_ORIG	;homage to original SMWCP credits
dw EV_SZS1	;1st intermission, zetsubo-sensei's pseudo-1st OP
dw EV_BAKE	;bakemonogatari's title cards, ssb melee's debug menu
dw EV_SZS2	;2nd intermission, zetsubo-sensei's 2nd OP (scene after horiz lines)
dw EV_MADO	;madoka magica's real ED (ep3+)
dw EV_SZS3	;3rd intermission, zetsubo-sensei's kumeta animation
dw EV_ARAK	;arakawa under the bridge's 1st OP
dw EV_SZS4	;4th intermission, zetsubo-sensei's 1st OP (hanging scene)
dw EV_HIDA	;hidamari sketch's 1st OP
dw EV_SZS5	;5th intermission, zetsubo-sensei's title cards
dw EV_MARI	;maria holic's 1st ED, homage to SMW credits
dw EV_SZS6	;6th intermission, same as 1st intermission


any "references" to "SMWC culture" or whatever is purely your imagination looking for a way to validate an otherwise out-of-place credits sequence

yet only EV_SZS3 causes drama, just because a pair of pantsu slide down a girl's legs, in a credits sequence where more out-of-place stuff occurs. this caught my attention. is this really about being "out-of-place"? or is it about the subject matter itself: a girl whose panties drop.

you might ask "why did you attempt to create a credits sequence that is completely out-of-place?". that brings us all the way back to SMWCP1 (repressed feelings lie ahead):

I didn't make any level for the first hack. However, I somehow managed to make the overworld border and alot of the standard sprite graphics. This made me happy.

jump to the beginning of SMWCP2

SNNNNNN talks with me about having a team of graphics designers for the hack, where me and a select few will design tilesets, sprites, whatever is needed. this made me pretty happy.

he ends up posting a free-for-all graphics thread

I guess i was mad, because I told myself I would not help with the hack. the level i was supposed to make ended up not being made

though in the end i make the overworld border

as well as some boss graphics

and some asm

i still felt like i hadn't done anything for the hack. i really wanted to... do something. OW border and graphics are not enough; I already did that in the first hack. i really wanted to make something that says "here is Ladida's work". so when this thread appeared, I jumped to it (the secondary reason is because I wanted to pwn jimmy's credits). attention-starving? yes. I just wanted people to go "haha nice Ladida". instead, I get a 3-month-delayed "WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING LADIDA".

but yeah, I've learned my lesson. I know people like MDP, imamelia, maybe alcaro, don't want me anywhere near a future collab. I can, and will, respect that.


back to the credits:
i created them with the intention to be fully seen. the fact that 1 scene is out really irks me. even doing something like the BABY thing is pretty dumb in my eyes; they are credits, not some QTE (also, very early in the thread the argument was brought up that the credits shouldn't have player input, and I followed that through). That's why I said "all or nothing": not to create some hostage-like situation, but for the credits' sake. though, like others have brought up, you can't really have your wishes respected in a collaboration. I still would highly prefer my credits not be used if one scene is going to be removed or replaced, for all the reasons I explained earlier.

regarding the shitstorm:
to be honest, i really was contemplating leaving the site. this felt like the last straw for me. i've been fed up with numerous things and this was the tipping point. though, gladly for some, sadly for others, i'm still here. i'm happy that there are people that supported me greatly through all this (while others were just shitposting). and i'm happy that there are people who disagreed with what i've done but did so respectfully, like HuFlungDu (and I'm deeply sorry for him; he was the epicenter when I wasn't. all of this was because I acted prematurely).

you can't have argument without gum, which sticks us all together
please kill me for this lame pun



there's still alot of stuff I really don't like, such as this whole "site PR" thing people have been pushing, or the whole direction SMWC has been going, or the quality of the community, but that's unrelated to the credits themselves so I'll leave it out of this thread.



I am still going to depart from the credits, however, you can keep my name. Remove the pantsu scene if you must, but I wish it could be acknowledged that it existed, for the credits' sake and my sake. that's just my wish; no need to do anything about it. it's a collab after all. ideas come and go


that's all i guess. thank you for your time

if there's one thing i learned from all this, it's that falconpunch's idiocy is really underestimated
I'm glad this is settled. Honestly, it should have never come to an argument like this, and although it's a product you made which provoked it, it's really not your fault that everyone handled it so poorly. It leaves a sour taste in my mouth, and I really hope everyone can move past this. I would quote individual parts of your post and reply to each, but there's no point - I think we've finally reached a consensus that everyone can at least tolerate.

Oh, since I removed the other thread, I wanted to link my final post from there to here in case anyone missed it: link. I've calmed down since I made it, but I'm still rather frustrated that things even came to this. Sigh.

Thanks so much for your help on the ending stuff Ladida. Despite everything that went down, I'm at least happy that you were one of a few people who actually stuck with SMWCP2 for so long and kept the ball rolling. Let's see if we can make that final push and get this thing released.
Originally posted by Ladida
I just wanted people to go "haha nice Ladida". instead, I get a 3-month-delayed "WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING LADIDA".


I think you got that wrong. I guess you were so frustrated and angry that you somehow missed it and I don't even blame you for that, but most people, including myself, actually said that they liked your credits. Most people here just said that one (or multiple) of these scenes felt out of place. And this doesn't even mean that we didn't like that scene. I actually enjoyed it, it was quite funny. Saying "something doesn't suit the hack" is different from saying "something is bad". And even then, I didn't really feel like anyone was very passionate about this in the beginning or was trying to attack you personally. I guess the criticism just hit you on the wrong nerve and you perceived it as more negative than it actually was meant, making you respond in quite an angry tone, which in return made other people angry, setting this whole thing on fire. But I'm pretty sure most people here weren't trying to devalue your work, but just to give objective criticism, even if it was three months too late. It was all just an unhappy chain reaction of events. Anyways, I want to apologize in case you felt personally attacked by me or others. I was really just trying to be objective and state my view on this topic.

Originally posted by Ladida
I do not see why the rest of the credits are not getting the same attention as the pantsu drop.


I kinda agree with you, the other scenes are also kinda out of place. But I guess they aren't "out of place" in a provocative way like that pantsu scene, which is probably why noone mentioned or minded them. Well, asside for maybe that suicide scene, but I somewhone completely missed that while watching the credits. The pantsu scene is hard to miss, though, so that is probably why it was the first (and only) scene most people mentioned. Overall, I guess most people are OK with "out of place" stuff as long as it isn't provocative or "inapropriate". And then again, what even is "provocative" or "inapropriate"? Everyone has different opinions on this, so it's hard to even blame your for anything. For some people a pantsu scene is provocative, for other people it's not. Sometimes you just can't know that without doing it first and I honor you for just trying it, even though it turned out to feel inapropriate to a lot of people afterwards, but that's really not your fault. Just don't take it as personal criticism, this is not about you, this is just about your work. #w{=D}

Originally posted by Ladida
I am still going to depart from the credits, however, you can keep my name. Remove the pantsu scene if you must, but I wish it could be acknowledged that it existed, for the credits' sake and my sake


Well, I don't see why anyone would have a problem with this. #w{=D}
It's not like you killed someone or anything like that. It was just a fun joke that backfired and led to an exaggerated shitstorm for some reason. Some time in the future, everyone will laugh about this and laugh about themselves for getting so unreasonably passionate about this. It's all good, just don't take it too personal. #w{=D}

--------------------
Feel free to visit my website/blog - it's updated rarely, but it looks pretty cool!
I still say I swear I gave feedback on the credits quite a while ago, but eh...it's in the past anyway. I actually talked with Ladida about the whole thing in a query on IRC. I can't entirely gauge his reaction because he was kind of quiet, but I think it turned out okay...? While we should keep this kind of thing in mind for any future collaborative hacks that may turn up and potentially cause controversy (best to nip that kind of drama in the bud if possible), it's still disappointing how quickly and severely the whole thing escalated. You'll notice I stopped posting in the first thread pretty early on and didn't even participate in the second one. I could have said any number of things of various degrees of being serious and insulting, but I figured at that point, the mature thing to do would just be to let well enough alone (not to mention the safest; probably anything I would have said would have only added more fuel to the fire). A decision has been reached and the discussion is basically over, so at this point, it's time to make like my holiday username and let it go.
Originally posted by RPG Hacker
And then again, what even is "provocative" or "inapropriate"? Everyone has different opinions on this, so it's hard to even blame your for anything. For some people a pantsu scene is provocative, for other people it's not. Sometimes you just can't know that without doing it first and I honor you for just trying it, even though it turned out to feel inapropriate to a lot of people afterwards, but that's really not your fault.

The safest bet would be to avoid anything that is considered inappropriate by mainstream culture (by this I mean the "normal" moral/belief, is there a better word for it?), as it is the one that will have an impact on the most people. I assume that it's obvious, but mainstream culture don't like any kind of sexual content in "kid" stuffs. Outside of weeabuu culture, I think we should expect negative reactions from falling panties in a SMW hack. It wouldn't be as much of a problem if this was Ladida's personal hack, but now it's something that is being made by others peoples too. For the ones in the development that see it as immoral (which should be expected due to mainstream culture), it turn the project into an object of shame instead of something to be proud of.
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Forum Index - Events - Super Mario World Central Production 2 Completion Project - SMWCP2 Archive - Ending Credits and Music

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