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Kaizo hack submission guidelines
Forum Index - SMW Hacking - Works in Progress - Kaizo Hacks - Kaizo hack submission guidelines
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Welcome to the kaizo hack submission guidelines! First, however, please note that the core values for standard hacks, as seen in the "Submit File" page in the hacks section, also apply to kaizo hacks. If you do wish to submit a kaizo hack to the hacks section, you should consider these morals in addition:

  1. Be careful about breaks
    If you're not careful, unintended shortcuts can ruin the level design. Which leads into:

  2. Be careful about certain glitches
    Some glitches (block duplication, for example), once they're introduced, give the player an opportunity to use it whenever they can, thinking it's the intended solution. Keep in mind that duplicating a turn block into a solid block overwrites the solid block tile with the newly created turn block. Bringing power-ups from previous levels is also frowned upon for the same reason, but it's not a removal reason by itself.
    If you use the respective fix patches, then no need to worry.

  3. Unlike regular hacks, glitch abuse is allowed

  4. Do not abuse glitches that you would normally find in pit hacks
    Most players would find it exceedingly annoying and frustrating to perform a wall-jump or even a wall-catch, not to mention having to design around it if you require it. Requiring things like corner clipping, wall-jumping, item swap, etc. is probably a removal reason.

  5. Don't use overused tricks
    If you do incorporate them, add some kind of unique twist. If a joke is funny, it's probably not going to be nearly as funny every time. Think of Kaizo traps as tropes. It can get tiresome and predictable when you read a story and the same trope is played straight with little to no deviation. Try to subvert the player's expectations. Elements such as "run under the Clapping Chuck" and "press the P-switch and cross the goal" are hardly challenging by themselves.

  6. Don't make it too easy
    The more difficulty you can cram into the level, the better. Try to optimize the given design for challenge (making jumps the maximum distance, little room for error during time challenges, etc.) and give the player a hard time from the get-go, but don't turn the level into a Muncher obstacle course where jumping precision is the main challenge.
    Slowdown may be allowed for harder hacks, as long as I don't have to spam 25% or 13% speed for (almost) the entire level, or use frame advance.

  7. Try not to add unnecessary free items
    It's more challenging if you only give items when needed, and not more.

  8. While not required, videos or a .SMV file of your hack do help moderation along.

  9. When choosing a difficulty, please specify whether your hack is "Kaizo: Light" or "Kaizo: Hard"
    "Kaizo: Light" is considered to be done without tools, while "Kaizo: Hard" is intended to be played with tools. Make sure your hack fits one of the categories before you submit it.

If you have any questions, feel free to post here or contact a kaizo or pit hack moderator.
Seems about right. I should also note that a hack that has breaks will be accepted if they don't hinder the level design in general.
Let me get this straight, so if I don't require a certain glitch or trick anywhere, like say block duplication, if someone breaks my level with block duplication, is that considered a bad thing based on these guidelines?

Also, if I do require block duplication, yet someone breaks one of my levels by duplicating a turn block a long distance (even if it is easier to pull of then the rest of the level) would that be a bad thing?

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This -->Click!!<-- This



thefinalboss726.blogspot.com
http://www.youtube.com/TheFinalBoss726
1) If the player never requires block duplication, but the level is breakable with it, I wouldn't consider it a removal reason, but if it's an easy glitch, then it might be depending on how much is broken.
2) Maybe, depending on how long or tedious it is, and the difficulty compared to the intended solution.

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Legacy custom music


How am I so creative? I think taking walks might have something to do with it.
Every single level of every single ROM hack I've ever made is easier than Ultra Necrozma.


I feel like some of these guidelines are debatable. Number 6 and 7, for instance; "easy" is debatable for a Kaizo hack, depending on what style you're going for. For instance, you could be aiming for a savestateless Kaizo hack that is not overly difficult (a la endgame ASMT). "Unnecessary" free items, too; if it leans more toward the puzzle hack side, unused items are often a form of red herring (see Z. Raffle tikt's level design).

As for the whole problem with glitch abuse, though, I feel like that isn't too big of a deal. After all, There are several patches on SMWC to fix some of the easy ones. Preventing some glitches, though, seems like it would take a lot of work and end up making strange level design; I feel like some of the more difficult to fix glitches should be negligible.


Professional frame-by-frame time wizard. YouTube - Twitter - SMW Glitch List - SMW Randomizer
So if I make a level that requires to make a frame-perfect glitch (walljump) at a certain time, will it be a removal reason? Also, floating muchers are now allowed because there isn't a part where it says that they're bad.
Originally posted by Sokobansolver

Don't make it too easy-the more difficulty you can cram into the level, the better.
Slowdown may be allowed for harder hacks, as long as I don't have to spam 25% or 13% speed for (almost) the entire level, or use frame advance.


why say kaizo hacks can't be too easy and then say i shouldn't have to spam slowdown

so basically our hacks must be the difficulty of your hacks

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will test any hard hack you guys have
I'm guessing 'too easy' would be something like Tubular or one of the final stages in SMW. Soft Kaizos would be fine from my understanding.

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Why not go to my Youtube channel?

This was way harder than I expected.
Originally posted by Thomas
I feel like some of these guidelines are debatable. Number 6 and 7, for instance; "easy" is debatable for a Kaizo hack, depending on what style you're going for. For instance, you could be aiming for a savestateless Kaizo hack that is not overly difficult (a la endgame ASMT).

If they're aiming for a savestateless Kaizo, no problem. I should have probably mentioned more about difficulty tiers.
Originally posted by Thomas
"Unnecessary" free items, too; if it leans more toward the puzzle hack side, unused items are often a form of red herring (see Z. Raffle tikt's level design).

I should have clarified that by saying if said items can easily be used in unintended ways. It was just a word of caution. Other than that, I don't see too much objectively wrong with red herrings, and I didn't really think of that.
This is one of those things where the overall vision is a whole lot more clear than any attempt to explain.
Originally posted by InitialBN
I'm guessing 'too easy' would be something like Tubular or one of the final stages in SMW. Soft Kaizos would be fine from my understanding.

Yup.

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Legacy custom music


How am I so creative? I think taking walks might have something to do with it.
Every single level of every single ROM hack I've ever made is easier than Ultra Necrozma.
I should have added more to my previous post but guess people already did it. Anyways:

Quote
so basically our hacks must be the difficulty of your hacks

No. Every submitted kaizo hack can have any difficulty you want, as long as it doesn't turn into pit. If everyone made their hacks have the style of Sokobansolver's hacks it would become unprofessional. However, I have to agree what others said about rules 6 and 7; there is no problem in making savestateless kaizo hacks and submitting them to the section (maybe we should make it more clear?) and there are respective patches to fix certain glitches.
Originally posted by Katerpie
I should have added more to my previous post but guess people already did it. Anyways:

Quote
so basically our hacks must be the difficulty of your hacks

No. Every submitted kaizo hack can have any difficulty you want, as long as it doesn't turn into pit. If everyone made their hacks have the style of Sokobansolver's hacks it would become unprofessional. However, I have to agree what others said about rules 6 and 7; there is no problem in making savestateless kaizo hacks and submitting them to the section (maybe we should make it more clear?) and there are respective patches to fix certain glitches.


Wait a minute, Pit is also debatable. For instance, people have told me that my Kazu Kaizo is a pit hack when I find it pretty easy, the only exception being the castle I made which I find to be easy pit/insane kaizo, along the difficulty lines of the later CoC levels. How do we determine the lines of Pit hacks?

Take Pit of Despair for example... That hack was insanely hard when it first came out, but with all the new techniques and incredible skills of the new players, I would classify it as mid CoC difficulty at best. Yet it was the very first Pit hack, so are we saying that it is no longer Pit difficulty, or are we saying that CoC should not be accepted as a kaizo hack?

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This -->Click!!<-- This



thefinalboss726.blogspot.com
http://www.youtube.com/TheFinalBoss726
Basically, we determine the lines of pit hacks as having pixel and frame perfect glitches, walljumps or every other strategy that is almost impossible to perform and is often found in these. In that case, I guess Kazu Kaizo wouldn't be classified as a pit hack with the exception of the castle which got close, so that would be debatable. There is a difference between a hack that is around C|C difficulty and has pit tricks, and a hack that doesn't have such tricks but would still be classified as harder.

If C|C was ever submitted to the hacking section it would still be accepted and people can in any way get influenced by that; Pit of Despair would still be a pit hack no matter if it was inspired by the former.

Apologies if I sound contradictory (if I did you are more than willing to oppose me); hope that clears things up.
I am still a little confused by Pit of Despair. I haven't played it in a long while but I do remember it being really easy and does not require any frame perfect tricks, so why is it classified as pit?

Also, saying frame perfect does not really help distinguish tricks. Mid-air shell jumps are really common, and they are frame perfect. Yes, they are easier then wall jumps, but they are still highly frame dependent. Which brings me to another issue. I see a difference between kaizo and pit as being with kaizo you are not always doomed if you are not using excessive tools. You can usually place a save state at a position, and repeatedly try the jump or two. With pit you are usually screwed because without slowdowns and other tools you will have to make multiple insane jumps without time to press save state. The problem then becomes, what if i have an open room, no time limit, and it requires a wall jump, and that is it. In this instance, we are making the level easier then a shell jump. This room can be done with no tools and no worries. If it were a shell jump, the player risks killing himself, which is not the case with a shell jump. Additionally, they are both frame perfect tricks.

Another issue I was curious about is puzzle hacks. I do not want to use the Super Puzzle World series as an example since it is sort of a bad example, but I will try since I do not know many hacks of this type. When the kaizo section was made, these hacks were placed here. How come? Super Puzzle World 3 gives the player infinite time, infinite lives (with the saves at the end of each level making up for the fact that it only gives you 99 lives) and is all possible without tools. I know there is the muncher run, which is where the hack runs into trouble, however that level is not very difficult, other than the puzzle itself. So why does that get classified as kaizo, especially based on these guidelines? Is it simply the nature of the hack being that it is hard? In that case I would say it is unfair that a puzzle hack gets put with kaizo hacks. Kazio hacks are hard to play because they require incredible skill, yet puzzle hacks are hard because they require deep thinking.

If the issue is that since it is hard, it is classified as kaizo, then I would say the proper solution would be to have its own section as a puzzle section. But then we are left with hacks like Super Ingenious World and Pitiless which combine the best of both kaizo and puzzles, which in turn would mean its own section. Thus, should puzzle hacks not be defined by their difficulty and rather be accepted as normal hacks? And the ones that use difficult jumps and insane precision and require some form of tools be placed with kaizo hacks?

Sorry if I am sort of ranting, its just that a lot of these guidelines are really iffy in my opinion...

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This -->Click!!<-- This



thefinalboss726.blogspot.com
http://www.youtube.com/TheFinalBoss726
Pit of Despair has key "flying."
Which reminds me of something else that is debatable in Kaizo hacks: key jumping. I rarely see more than 1 or 2 consecutive key-jumps in a regular Kaizo, but Pit of Despair hopes the player can theoretically do it an infinite number of times. Doing multiple mid-air key-jumps for me would require about 25% speed maybe. Or less.
With determining difficulty, it might help to think of if your potential audience is casual Kaizo players or experienced TASers or somewhere in between.

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Legacy custom music


How am I so creative? I think taking walks might have something to do with it.
Every single level of every single ROM hack I've ever made is easier than Ultra Necrozma.
Oh wow, I was just watching over moltov's video and lol I forgot how hard it was. All I remembered was the easy bullet jumps. Forgot about the disco shell and key jumps because I was so used to the jumping through the on/off block to break the level.

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This -->Click!!<-- This



thefinalboss726.blogspot.com
http://www.youtube.com/TheFinalBoss726
Just a question, but are pit hacks like this one allowed?
Not at the moment. That is, until SMW Central decides to actually accept any pit hack and/or have Kaizo hack moderators that are experienced in those.
Sorry for HUGE bump.

Would breaks and cheese that are harder than the 'intended route' be allowed? Thanks.
Sure. If a shortcut would only be useful for a TAS, I think that's fine.

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Legacy custom music


How am I so creative? I think taking walks might have something to do with it.
Every single level of every single ROM hack I've ever made is easier than Ultra Necrozma.
Originally posted by Sokobansolver
  • Do not abuse glitches that you would normally find in pit hacks Most players would find it exceedingly annoying and frustrating to perform a wall- jump or even a wall-catch, not to mention having to design around it if you require it. Requiring things like corner clipping, wall-jumping, item swap, etc. is probably a removal reason.

  • Sooo, would the "grab multiple items from a block by side-caping while scrolling the screen or collecting a transformation powerup at the same time" glitch be allowed? It's not too finicky, and you probably don't need frame advance for it. (at least I don't)

    youtu.be/a51H8qaBQsI at around 9m55s he does it.

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    Current project: Kaizo Mario Bros. 2

    Current dimension: 3
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