Banner
Views: 784,472,605
Time:
13 users online:  FPzero, leictreon, MiracleWater, MM102,  Ninja Boy, rosysunrise_,  RussianMan,  S.N.N., Sixcorby, TCgamerboy2002, Teows, westslasher2, Yung Gotenks - Guests: 47 - Bots: 216 Users: 41,026 (1,549 active)
Latest: DVGames
Tip: You can use Lunar Magic's Overworld Layer 3 Editing system to edit or create your own layer 3 images (castle bricks, fish, rocks) and apply unique effects per level via the Layer 3 Bypass in the main editor.Not logged in.
Teen's plan to kill family/bomb school in MN gets thwarted
Forum Index - Sunken Ghost Ship - Forum Graveyard - Hot off the Press - Teen's plan to kill family/bomb school in MN gets thwarted
Pages: « 1 »
Counterfeit // FIRE AND FORGET [~]
(CCCP:~) counterfeit% cat чики-брики.txt
News article.
Another news article.
Criminal complaint.

17-year-old John David LaDue of Minnesota is under arrest for attempted murder and numerous other charges, largely related to possession of bombs. He told the officers that:

- he plotted to kill his parents and sister with a .22 rifle because .22 rounds aren't as noisy as more powerful rounds.
- he'd set a fire somewhere off in the countryside to distract first responders
- he'd set pressure cooker bombs filled with nails and ball bearings and try to kill as many people as possible before a SWAT team arrived to kill him
In addition to that, he had over 400 rounds of ammo for his SKS, and I'm sure he wasn't planning on using it innawoods.

This horrendous act of violence was planned in his journal. The earliest date is July 24th of 2013, so he had this idea of mass homicide for at least 9 1/2 months. He had also practiced setting off bombs in the playground of an elementary school in March. He also idolized Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, perpetrators of the Columbine High School massacre in Littleton, Colorado, on April 20th, 1999.

My question is: How did all of this get by everyone for so long, especially the parents? Don't they question their son, check their rooms (at least to "make sure they're clean") or spend time with them? Did they even have a relationship? Did anything ever happen at all that would be a warning sign that there's something psychologically wrong with this kid? Prior to this, the second article portrays him as a fairly normal and obedient "quiet boy" with friends but then all this goes down and suddenly his demons come out.

Bless this dish washer for paying attention when others clearly did not.

Do any of you guys live in or around Waseca, Minnesota, or have relatives that go to school there? I'd like to hear something from the minds of the people this directly impacted.
✪ ✪ ✪ ✪ ✪
~ COU/NTERFEITGTX460 ~
Gentoo Linu/x userEx-Sta/ff
Overcaffeinated/My Anime_ List
I AM SILLY_2A Supporter
I don't even know how to respond to what almost could have been the worst mass school shooting in the history of the United States as far as I know.

People like him need to be executed, and fast.
More like, people like him need serious help from mental health services. It is clear to me that something pretty hellish must have happened to him to push him over the edge. The fact that he is 17 and had access to weapons deeply disturbs me.

I'm glad he was caught. I don't think anyone could stomach him getting away with it. Hopefully he can be helped, but that may not be possible.

- BlackMageMario
God Dang. Most criminals would never have been so careful in planning everything out and never getting suspected, and I kind of admire him for that.

I'm NOT trying to say that I wish his plan worked, but I'm kind of disappointed in him for being SO SMART yet SO STUPID to actually RECORD his plans in his journal.

Well, good riddance.

--------------------
Science teachers are too afraid to teach their students about the element of surprise.

Believe it or not, I actually am (attempting to) work on a hack. Just very slowly.
Holy shift... That's true, why did all that go past everyone, including the parents? But since he's arrested, good. That little b*st*rd.
It's terrifying to think what would've happened had his plans succeeded. Though it does raise the question that if his neighbours found his recent behaviours suspicious, why didn't they confront his parents?

Originally posted by HackerOfTheLegend
People like him need to be executed, and fast.

Death isn't a good solution to any problem. Mentality like this is why the offender wanted to kill in the first place.
Counterfeit // FIRE AND FORGET [~]
(CCCP:~) counterfeit% cat чики-брики.txt
Originally posted by BlackMageMario
The fact that he is 17 and had access to weapons deeply disturbs me.
You are 16/17 and also have access to weapons, if you think about it. The fact is, everyone who has access to the internet has access to weapon schematics and can make their own out of things you can't even imagine would somehow be weapons. That's not even counting the black market.

Quote
It is clear to me that something pretty hellish must have happened to him to push him over the edge.
If you read the article, that is likely not the case:
Quote
LaDue was described by Waseca schools Superintendent Tom Lee as a “good kid,” who was quiet and a B student who made the honor roll. He was never in trouble at school and never had any dealings with Chrz, Lee said.

Bailey Root, 19, who grew up with LaDue in Waseca, can’t fathom it, either.

“This little boy was shy, he never talked, always followed the leader,” she said. “I’m absolutely amazed.

“Growing up we played baseball in the side yard. We’d hang out at the park across from the railroad tracks. We’d play hide-and-seek. It was all of us, these three houses,” she said. “We were just a big gang.”

Lee said there hadn’t been any reports in junior or senior high school that LaDue had been bullied. Root said the same.

“He had plenty of friends,” she said. “It was like the outcast friends kind of thing, but he had plenty of friends. I don’t think they got bullied at all, not that I saw.”

Ryan Lano, who taught guitar to LaDue for four years, was left “totally shocked.”

“John was normal in every aspect. He was courteous. … He asked questions and followed instructions very well. He loved music and his guitar and did really well. He was polite and said thank you after every lesson.”

Three sets of neighbors across the street from the LaDue home recalled seeing him outside almost every day throwing knives and axes at a tall pine tree in the front yard. The bark is gone on a swath of the tree trunk. After neighbors complained, plywood boards, wider than the tree, were nailed to the other side to prevent the knives from flying through the bushes and into the street.

Shelly Simon, who lives across the street, said she thought at first that LaDue was practicing archery or some similar sport.

“Now,” she said, “it’s kind of disturbing.”

Cliff Keyes, the single father of boys ages 15 and 16, said he would hear the “thwacks” or “thuds” of LaDue’s axes hitting the tree. The teen didn’t socialize with the Keyes boys, but his parents seemed to be nice people, he said.
People don't need to experience any trauma to develop a criminal mindset. It does sound like he was socially awkward. He seemed to be a good learner and followed all the rules. He probably shouldn't have been chucking sharps at trees so close to civilization.

I just think, unfortunately, his obsession became the infamy of school violence on a mass scale: if his parents watched him, I'm sure they would've found the bombs, seen his web browsing history to find walls of links to stuff about Columbine well as the blueprints for the bombs he crafted, and they would've (or should've) set him straight. I think he's well aware of how immoral his plan was, which is why he kept it secret for so long. He made these plans over a long period of time, fixated on perfection and each detail. He seemed to take pride in it and taunted the police when they were searching his room with his "guess what I'm doing" shtick. I just can't buy the idea that he's insane... just very, very dark and creepy.

Also, mental health services wouldn't do a thing to fix this kid. There's so much false diagnosis and pill pumping and 'therapists' making the most cliched, obvious suggestions that I have zero faith in the system. I guarantee you he would shrug it all off and continue doing what he was doing before. None of this instills discipline, and that's what would REALLY help positively shape his character. Hopefully, his inevitable prison sentence will solve this problem.

Semi-related fun fact since we're kind of on the topic of bombs: ammonium nitrate fertilizer is banned in Afghanistan. You might be wondering, "why..." but it's used by terrorists to make IEDs. Yeah, they just smuggle it into the country, and there's nothing stopping them from making bombs other ways. INSTEAD, the fertilizer ban fucked things up for the farmers badly, and that's the reality of "weapon" bans: responsible users get shafted while criminals continue being criminals. That said, the guy in this article has a very good brain and made a new fertilizer formula which might give Middle-Eastern farmers their livelihoods back.

Also semi-related: Anyone find it funny/sad how with all the hubbub about the NSA spying on telecommunications and how they're trying to thwart terrorism, this stuff and the Boston Marathon bombing slip under the radar?


le obama face.jpeg

Originally posted by KTBHacking
God Dang. Most criminals would never have been so careful in planning everything out and never getting suspected, and I kind of admire him for that.

I'm NOT trying to say that I wish his plan worked, but I'm kind of disappointed in him for being SO SMART yet SO STUPID to actually RECORD his plans in his journal.

Well, good riddance.
Gotta admit the second paragraph made me laugh hard. Had he been successful, he'd paint shadows of paranoia everywhere because he seemed like such an innocent boy, creating that "IT COULD BE ANYONE" stigma.

One of my friends I showed this article to brought up a good point: "the media should stop publicizing edgy, violent teenagers." If you think about it, there's some truth to it: they glorified the hell out of Columbine, Virgina Tech, Sandy Hook, and judging from these reports, this is a literal copycat case. LaDue wanted to be just like Eric and Dylan.
✪ ✪ ✪ ✪ ✪
~ COU/NTERFEITGTX460 ~
Gentoo Linu/x userEx-Sta/ff
Overcaffeinated/My Anime_ List
I AM SILLY_2A Supporter
(I'm still sixteen at this point, I'll only be seventeen in August)

I don't know if its right to blame the parents exclusively but from reading the article it seems like that. I wonder who told him about those events though.

Not all therapists are crap but there are quite a few. Putting him in prison may not completely solve his problems either (and he'll be with other criminals as well, probably).

And your friend is right: the media should not be making such a big deal out of these things. Yes, it's bad, but of course there'll always be media companies just exploiting and sensitizing the story to sell stuff, which absolutely disgusts me. I wish tabloid newspapers and other sensilising media sources would get called out more. After what happened over in Britain (and somewhat over here in Ireland) with the Phone Hacking Scandle, I don't trust tabloids in the slightest (that and well, when the people they are interviewing uses language better than the journalist themselves, you know the writing quality is not good =p)

- BlackMageMario
Originally posted by Counterfeit
Gotta admit the second paragraph made me laugh hard. Had he been successful, he'd paint shadows of paranoia everywhere because he seemed like such an innocent boy, creating that "IT COULD BE ANYONE" stigma.

One of my friends I showed this article to brought up a good point: "the media should stop publicizing edgy, violent teenagers." If you think about it, there's some truth to it: they glorified the hell out of Columbine, Virgina Tech, Sandy Hook, and judging from these reports, this is a literal copycat case. LaDue wanted to be just like Eric and Dylan.



It COULD be anyone. Even someone who we suspect least.


It could be you, it could be your friend,

It could even be me.

--------------------
Science teachers are too afraid to teach their students about the element of surprise.

Believe it or not, I actually am (attempting to) work on a hack. Just very slowly.
Counterfeit // FIRE AND FORGET [~]
(CCCP:~) counterfeit% cat чики-брики.txt
Originally posted by BlackMageMario
there'll always be media companies just exploiting and sensitizing the story to sell stuff, which absolutely disgusts me.
I'm less worried about how they'll be using it to sell stuff and more worried about how tragedies like these are going to further a political agenda expressed by a loud minority who think emotionally rather than logically to take away the rights of the people or to justify unconstitutional practices. A lot of our major media outlets are liberal-controlled, with liberal biases, such as CNN, and I don't trust them. They aren't there to report news. They're there to stir up trouble. And, believe me, if this kid were allowed to follow through with his plot of a massacre, the media would blow this up (no pun intended) and swarms of politicans and soccer moms would push for oppressive legislation.

I'm not saying "Republican" news stations and sites like FOX are much better, either... it's important that you look at many sources and points of view before you take sides.

Anyways, a little more information as to what's in the journal is here:
click me.
Quote
A tip led police to the boy’s storage unit, which police say was rented by a friend’s mother.
Ok so, this is an interesting part. I don't believe the friend's mother rented it for LaDue, so he must've talked to that friend about sharing the space. Question is, did this friend know what he was using it for? I have doubts based entirely on my own conscience... I mean, if I knew my friend was plotting to bomb a place, I would tell someone. That said, there are some people who will keep any kind of secret for a friend. I would be interested in hearing what the friend had to say.
✪ ✪ ✪ ✪ ✪
~ COU/NTERFEITGTX460 ~
Gentoo Linu/x userEx-Sta/ff
Overcaffeinated/My Anime_ List
I AM SILLY_2A Supporter
Originally posted by Counterfeit
One of my friends I showed this article to brought up a good point: "the media should stop publicizing edgy, violent teenagers." If you think about it, there's some truth to it: they glorified the hell out of Columbine, Virgina Tech, Sandy Hook, and judging from these reports, this is a literal copycat case. LaDue wanted to be just like Eric and Dylan.

Yeah, that's what it seems like to me, too. It seems like the EXACT problem we have with massacres and the media: the media cannot legally talk about the victims, so since they absolutely MUST report on stories because it's SO bad when they don't, they talk about the perpetrator- and this gives them fame and attention, encouraging everyone to do what they did.


And that's exactly why this and other school shootings happened.


I wish we could get the media to realize that they're part of the problem, but I bet that even if we did, they'd go "pfft we don't care, we need the ratings!" :/


<Adam> I feel like smwc is a prostitute now, because we put up a porn ad for money

Remember, people! Telepathy is a wooonderful magic!
Counterfeit // FIRE AND FORGET [~]
(CCCP:~) counterfeit% cat чики-брики.txt
Update:

Police interview and some footage released.

He's never been bullied, his parents did nothing wrong, yet he wanted to kill his family and his classmates anyways.

What really grinds my gears is that he thinks he's "mentally ill but tried not to show it." Thanks for adding to the stigma against mental illness, loser. This is why people who have been diagnosed with or hospitalized for suspected mental illness are treated like second-rate citizens. People are treated like they stay that way forever and may still never get their rights back. Wanting to kill people like this has nothing to do with mental illness. It's a sign that you're just an insufferable asshole. -.-;

He should go on trial as an adult, and he should be locked up for a long time. He basically convicted himself in that video.
✪ ✪ ✪ ✪ ✪
~ COU/NTERFEITGTX460 ~
Gentoo Linu/x userEx-Sta/ff
Overcaffeinated/My Anime_ List
I AM SILLY_2A Supporter
I wonder if American Gun Violence will become a premature tsukumogami...

EDIT: I'm just saying that violence has reached the point where it's basically a Youkai.

--------------------
Let's milk Sunny Milk. Then she'll have enough money to fund Sunny Milk Real Estate.
Everypony's digging with a shovel
Counterfeit // FIRE AND FORGET [~]
(CCCP:~) counterfeit% cat чики-брики.txt
Originally posted by Wiimeiser
I wonder if American Gun Violence will become a premature tsukumogami...

EDIT: I'm just saying that violence has reached the point where it's basically a Youkai.
You know, it's actually kinda funny: violent crime involving firearms in the USA is actually dropping but people think it's going up. (Thanks, media!) Click me - this site's research pulls stats from CDC.gov. To further put things into perspective, there are over 80 million 'legal' gun owners in the USA, and an unknown number who own them illegally, and checking out the statistics in that report, it becomes hard to blame guns: I feel like if they were the root of the problem, we'd have much bigger numbers. I think the weapons used in crimes largely depend on what's available, but I don't think crimes are committed because of said weapon.

Despite what you might hear about USA over there, you're really safe from being shot here unless you live in 'the ghetto'. I don't feel like enough is being done to address the problem of gang violence, most of which happens in the cities. There's too low of a police presence in gang-infested areas, and legislation doesn't target gangs: it misses the mark and targets the law-abiding citizens who aren't using their guns for anything wrong while criminals will continue to traffic weapons and terrorize the streets. The only things these laws would accomplish is disarming people who wish to protect themselves from this kind of thing, participate in sports, or just collect.

As far as that huge suicide stat goes, we have a really shitty mental healthcare system that only serves to make you feel like you're subhuman, pump you full of pills, and put you back on the street. It's not like it used to be many decades ago. The system needs reform. A lot of people are afraid to seek help because of the stigma around mental health: they're afraid of discrimination and humiliation. Who do you think actually makes a change in a suicidal person's life that gives them the desire to live - someone who gets paid to babysit you, or a good friend or a loved one? Also, I'd like to see some correlation between certain lifestyles and depression.

If we managed to crush those two problems alone, the numbers of "gun deaths" would drop dramatically, but like I said, we should do it in a way that cuts down total violence, not just violence specific to gun usage, because otherwise we aren't really solving anything.

Back to your original statement, I wager it has become not a Youkai, but this:


And back on topic:

I find it weird how someone found out about LaDue and stopped him with no substantial evidence of criminal intent, but if you look at past cases like Columbine or Elliot Rodgers, there were videos plastered across the internet, and not enough action was taken. Police "supposedly knew" and the latter incident was even checked up on but no preventative measures were taken despite the threat.

I don't really understand why we have this inconsistency in the reliability of police.
✪ ✪ ✪ ✪ ✪
~ COU/NTERFEITGTX460 ~
Gentoo Linu/x userEx-Sta/ff
Overcaffeinated/My Anime_ List
I AM SILLY_2A Supporter
Originally posted by Counterfeit

This is unrelated, but despite the fact that the rest of your sources are great, this one seem to be a conspiracy theory site which tend to be too crazy to be trust able as a source of information.
Anyway, I don't see how a decrease in violent crime would mean that having a the amount of gun ownership is not related to amount of violent, as it could be simply be one of the many factors influencing it. Especially, since America is notable for having both a higher amount of gun-related crimes and guns ownership among developed countries. Of course, there is still probably a lot more stuffs that affect violent crimes(like the poor quality of social service, public education, the economics crisis, the culture supporting greed, selfishness and individualism (not that individualism is bad, it's just that American culture seem to support it way too much )) so guns are not totally to blame. I fell like everyone just simplify too much the problem to try to find one cause that could easily be fixed.

Originally posted by Counterfeit
I think the weapons used in crimes largely depend on what's available, but I don't think crimes are committed because of said weapon.

But a gun is a much more dangerous weapons than anything else, a criminal attacking people with a knife will cause far less damage than one using a gun and will be easier to stop. It may not prevent crimes but at least it will reduce the death and destruction caused by it.

Originally posted by Counterfeit
As far as that huge suicide stat goes, we have a really shitty mental healthcare system that only serves to make you feel like you're subhuman, pump you full of pills, and put you back on the street.

I can relate to that, not only do Quebec have a notably high suicide rate, but I have experienced a similar shitty mental health care (including pill that could potentially be so toxic that they had to do a blood test every two day)
Originally posted by Counterfeit
The system needs reform. A lot of people are afraid to seek help because of the stigma around mental health: they're afraid of discrimination and humiliation.

Yeah, but it will take a lot of change to the culture to remove the stigma, I can't expect this to happen soon since media continue to use mental issue as an easy explanation for murders but, at least, Homeland is a step in the right direction
Originally posted by Counterfeit
someone who gets paid to babysit you

It get even worse when you try to get them to leave you alone
Originally posted by Counterfeit
"the media should stop publicizing edgy, violent teenagers."

This is not the only issue, media report on the issue tend to victimize the killer, they've been doing that for a long time(remember the school shooting where they blamed Doom?), so I don't expect it to change anytime soon. They also use a lot of scaremongering (like claiming nobody could have predicted the shooting and that he looked normal the day before) which also don't help (I remember seeing a part of Eliot Rodger's manifesto saying that he wanted to inspire fear in the girls who rejected him). My mother was really pissed when she saw TVA nouvelle(basically our FOX news) doing exactly that since she did a lot of work with people with asperger's (myself included) and knew that blaming his mental illness was a bullshit excuse.
Counterfeit // FIRE AND FORGET [~]
(CCCP:~) counterfeit% cat чики-брики.txt
Originally posted by Bio
Originally posted by Counterfeit

This is unrelated, but despite the fact that the rest of your sources are great, this one seem to be a conspiracy theory site which tend to be too crazy to be trust able as a source of information.
Ogod. Now that I actually click the other stuff on the page, I can see you're right that this is a conspiracy theory site. The fact that they even support the claim that 9/11 was a planned demolition immediately discredits them in my eyes. (I feel like I need to take a shower after that.) USA Today holds up though and there are lots of other sites saying that violent crime is going down. Here's an FBI source that shows stats over many years. ^_^;

Quote
Anyway, I don't see how a decrease in violent crime would mean that having a the amount of gun ownership is not related to amount of violent, as it could be simply be one of the many factors influencing it. Especially, since America is notable for having both a higher amount of gun-related crimes and guns ownership among developed countries.
I think the spacing between the fractions of tiny numbers skews the image. He's only comparing to countries he cherrypicked: admits he conveniently left Mexico out of the chart which he acknowledges has a far greater firearm homicide rate than USA despite adding all other nations from the OECD, which again, skews the image. It's almost like he's hoping you don't read the article and just look at the chart, eh?

America is a very big, multicultural country, and there are many little places in here that are not exactly "rich and developed" but are slums full of poor people and gangs, where most of the gun violence takes place, so him saying that you're 20x more likely to get shot in America, with his wording implying ALL of Americans are at equal risk, compared to other nations, is bogus. It all depends on what part of America you're in. And, what's the difference between being killed by a gun than being killed by something else? The end result is the same: you die. v_V

Criticism of Washington Post aside, I think naturally, more of x weapon available means more people are likely to make use of x weapon to begin with: for example, in the UK, because guns are really scarce now, so everyone uses knives. So, they have a huge knife problem, especially (guess where) in the cities like London.
- One source, claiming numbers are from police reports
- two source, citing information shared from this government site

Quote
Of course, there is still probably a lot more stuffs that affect violent crimes(like the poor quality of social service, public education, the economics crisis, the culture supporting greed, selfishness and individualism (not that individualism is bad, it's just that American culture seem to support it way too much )) so guns are not totally to blame. I fell like everyone just simplify too much the problem to try to find one cause that could easily be fixed.
Identifying and understanding motive and the pushes for a motive I think would be a great step forward because it would teach us to recognize how problems start, and how we can help people before they turn to crime. Easier said than done and we can't stop everyone from committing crimes, but the more we learn, the more we can make resources available.

Quote
Originally posted by Counterfeit
I think the weapons used in crimes largely depend on what's available, but I don't think crimes are committed because of said weapon.

But a gun is a much more dangerous weapons than anything else, a criminal attacking people with a knife will cause far less damage than one using a gun and will be easier to stop. It may not prevent crimes but at least it will reduce the death and destruction caused by it.
I'm not really sure what you mean by a knife causing less damage unless you're talking about missing and blowing a hole in the wall. Slower damage, definitely, because a 1FPS arm swing with a blade has nothing on a 1200+FPS projectile. Placement and frequency of the wound(s) IMO determine damage, but let's come back to that later.

I'd also argue that bombs are far more dangerous than guns, in the sense that they're completely indiscriminate; they have radial areas of effect.

Yes, a gun is inherently more dangerous than a lot of weapons, but consider this: I'm 5'5", 130 pounds, and not very strong. I've never been in trouble with the law. Now, let's also say that somebody breaks into my house or follows me and tries to assault me and rob me or kill me. If I have a knife, and they don't stop, then it's on me to overpower them -- which is unlikely because I'm smaller than most people and while I have a lot of energy, I don't have the strength. In a land of total gun control, I'm stopped from owning a firearm legally lest I become a criminal myself, but criminals don't obey the law - they just circumvent it to get the upper hand, but for the sake of knife vs. knife, the stronger person often wins: even the quicker person can still be outmuscled, pinned, and stabbed to death.

Guns equalize our power, it gives me just as good of a chance against a big guy as he has against me. Criminals and instigators usually turn around and high-tail it out of there before it becomes a skirmish if they KNOW their target has a gun, and that's the story of most self-defense and why you don't hear about it: it's uneventful and the media won't report on it that much... and when the criminal is shot dead, it adds to a statistic that is used to push for gun bans rather than being held separate because the instance involved personal protection. Funny how that works, eh?

The issue of defensive gun use remains tricky. There are too many studies and surveys with different yields. We don't know how many potential victims there could've been in each of these violent crimes that were stopped by DGUs, and it's not clear if the violent crime would have resulted in death of an innocent. If it's true that 75% of DGUs were to stop violent crime, then even in some of the studies yielding the lowest numbers, that number still outweighs the amount of murders substantially.

I think we ought to be careful with legislation and read into each bill carefully to make sure we're not giving criminals an advantage over law-abiding citizens. We want people to be able to protect themselves against violent crime. If we make it so that only the cops can protect people rather than allowing law-abiding citizens a really effective means of protecting themselves, there's a large enough time gap in between the act and the cops' arrival that the victim could already be dead before they can intervene.

If you think about knife death, it's painful and slow. If you've ever been cut with a knife, you know how badly it stings and burns. With fatal stabbings, you bleed out and you go numb and can't breathe after losing enough blood. If someone slits your throat, you choke on your own blood as it gushes and sprays from your neck. It's certainly not the way I'd choose to be murdered, if I had to be murdered. Knock on wood, because I don't wish to be murdered. >_>

Blunt force deaths, such as by fist/foot beatings, hammers, or baseball bats, cause an awful lot of suffering to the victim too.

Really, no matter the means, death is still horrible, but a death with more suffering is more horrible in my opinion.

Originally posted by Bio
Originally posted by Counterfeit
As far as that huge suicide stat goes, we have a really shitty mental healthcare system that only serves to make you feel like you're subhuman, pump you full of pills, and put you back on the street.

I can relate to that, not only do Quebec have a notably high suicide rate, but I have experienced a similar shitty mental health care (including pill that could potentially be so toxic that they had to do a blood test every two day)
WOW. I'm sorry that you had to go through that. It's not right to treat a patient like a lab rat. I personally believe people should volunteer themselves for testing new medicine or maybe they could even request death row/life-sentenced inmates to try it to make their lives more meaningful, just to confirm it's safe for humans, before it's actually used in COMMON MEDICINAL PRACTICES. I hope there's no permanent effects on you for it, man... =(

Originally posted by Bio
Originally posted by Counterfeit
The system needs reform. A lot of people are afraid to seek help because of the stigma around mental health: they're afraid of discrimination and humiliation.

Yeah, but it will take a lot of change to the culture to remove the stigma, I can't expect this to happen soon since media continue to use mental issue as an easy explanation for murders but, at least, Homeland is a step in the right direction
Homeland? (Seems too common a term for me to be able to search easily... care to explain what this is?)

Often times, mental illness has nothing to do with murder.

When schizophrenia is blamed: I think murder is always a personal decision. Sure, someone could say "the voices told me to do it" or "God told me to do it" but who chooses to listen in the end?

When Asperger's is blamed: Asperger's is an autistic spectrum disorder, and a very light one at that. It's also not a mental illness, but a neurological disorder. It makes social cues and interaction more awkward and take more time and Aspies tend to have very focused interests (sometimes even "objectionable by social standards") but it doesn't make them malicious. If anything, Aspies tend to get more victimized because of their social awkwardness, and some of them don't even realize they're being made fun of. When they do, it really hurts. Maybe a lot of Aspies become depressed as a result of this social torment, but Aspies also tend to be by-the-book by nature. I can't see someone murdering someone and realistically blaming Asperger's.

When depression is blamed: Depression is anger turned inward. Depressed people are more likely to hurt themselves, not others. Depression coupled with OCD has a relatively high suicide rate so I can understand how this ends in suicide.

I think anxiety probably influences a lot of murder-suicides, because people act abruptly on fleeting thoughts, but anxiety is not exclusive to mental illness. Everyone has anxiety at some point in their lives. I think we need ways of releasing tension, venting about issues somewhere safe, before it becomes anxiety, and we all need a little impulse control training. We need to be able to step away from situations we can't handle and we need somebody to lean on for support because we live in a world where we're expected to do everything and be successful and sometimes we just hit bad areas. People need to work out differences and not hate each other over dumb shit that doesn't matter. People need to stop overthinking things and relax. Slow down.

I'm kind of rambling at this point...

Originally posted by Bio
Originally posted by Counterfeit
someone who gets paid to babysit you

It get even worse when you try to get them to leave you alone
You're absolutely right about that.

Originally posted by Bio
Originally posted by Counterfeit
"the media should stop publicizing edgy, violent teenagers."

This is not the only issue, media report on the issue tend to victimize the killer, they've been doing that for a long time(remember the school shooting where they blamed Doom?)
Actually no, I don't remember this, but I do know that people often point the finger at video games when shootings happen because a lot of games focus on killing. Hell, I remember even one spokesperson for the NRA blaming video games for some of these school shootings, and I respectfully disagree with him on that. If we're blaming video games, I think we should also be blaming action movies and "gangsta" music. No?

I think that if a child doesn't understand basic moral values and is likely to copycat "cool things", then the parents should probably not expose their kids to that media yet. And if they are exposed to this stuff, they should be spoken to about it so they understand what things mean and what the consequences are. It's really important, in my eyes, for the parents to be involved in the child's early years, and begin giving them a degree of independence in their teen years, but still continue to keep tabs on them to make sure they remain in check and aren't going down a dangerous path.

I remember being annoyed a lot growing up and not having privacy, but now I realize how important it was that my parents always checked to see what I was doing online.

Anyways, I think that after the kid has an understanding of right and wrong, if they choose to do it anyway, then it's their own fault and you can't blame the games, the movies, the music, or the parents.

Quote
They also use a lot of scaremongering (like claiming nobody could have predicted the shooting and that he looked normal the day before) which also don't help
Yeah, this "it could be anyone" thing the media tries to spread just instills paranoia in the masses. When this kind of stuff happens, the Dems shove legislation out as fast as they can to try to ban things before knowing the root of the motive. Sometimes it goes nowhere, but in Massachusetts, we're feeling ripple effects of Sandy Hook and H.4121 is FLYING and GOAL didn't get the chance to amend it for the sake of protecting the constitutional rights of law-abiding citizens. "Suitability" is abused to hell here for the LTC because of how arbitrary the reasoning behind denial can be. If that extends to the FID then I don't think a lot of people would be able to legally get even low-capacity, long firearms here anymore. And, most of the people who want an FID card around here just want to go target shooting or hunting... long arms are scarcely ever used in crimes. So what is this supposed to solve? =/

Quote
(I remember seeing a part of Eliot Rodger's manifesto saying that he wanted to inspire fear in the girls who rejected him). My mother was really pissed when she saw TVA nouvelle(basically our FOX news) doing exactly that since she did a lot of work with people with asperger's (myself included) and knew that blaming his mental illness was a bullshit excuse.
I agree with you completely; Asperger's isn't the reason Elliot Rodger killed those people. I am Madoka Kaname in this article's comments.

Elliot Rodger should've been hospitalized for those videos, yes, but not because of his Asperger's - it was because he was an immediate threat to society and he needed to be observed in a safe place and behaviorally corrected. I think that growing up in a "rich celebrity" family with his parents always busy, he didn't get a lot of emotional support or guidance. In a strange twist, I think probably because of his family's status, he also was very narcissistic despite his self-loathing. He wanted acceptance but didn't know how to get it. His parents really should've been there for him to open his eyes to reality: "You don't need a girlfriend/sex to be successful in life" and "nobody wants to be with someone who thinks they're better than everyone else" and "nobody wants to be with someone who's always feeling sorry for himself." He needed both words of encouragement, and the blunt truth, to change. Not everyone can figure the answers for themselves.

I think that's a trend nowadays: parents are bringing kids into the world without knowing how to be parents or having the TIME to be parents, and some parents just think spending money on things to keep the kids entertained will get them through. When kids become adults, they're still just big kids in the end because they aren't equipped with the skills they need to be successful in life. I mean, in the case of Elliot Rodger, he never really "grew up."

People knew this was going to happen. A lot of people. Elliot Rodger was active on a forum with his real name as his username. The staff proceeded to delete his posts after things happened. I've seen screencaps of the conversations that were had there. I don't have them saved though, otherwise I'd repost them here.

Oh god it's almost 3 AM. See you later, Bio. Thanks for the good conversation, btw.
✪ ✪ ✪ ✪ ✪
~ COU/NTERFEITGTX460 ~
Gentoo Linu/x userEx-Sta/ff
Overcaffeinated/My Anime_ List
I AM SILLY_2A Supporter
Originally posted by Counterfeit
Homeland? (Seems too common a term for me to be able to search easily... care to explain what this is?)

It's a TV show (it can be seen on netflix) about a CIA-like organization fighting terrorists, I mentioned it because one of the season one story arc is about one of the main character, Carrie, hiding the fact that she's bipolar to avoid potentially losing her job due to the stigma around mental illness (which eventually do happen, despite her being their best agent). It was the only time I really saw the issue explored in the media, so I'm glad that it exist since it mean that more people can get an idea of the stigma they have to face.
Homeland is a television show. I've only watched the first season of the show myself along with my parents, but it is very, very good; it's a bit freaky though, especially at the start o_0 Oh and trust me, the twist in the first episode? It's not even a twist. It's not even a fucking twist.

Originally posted by Counterfeit
I think that's a trend nowadays: parents are bringing kids into the world without knowing how to be parents or having the TIME to be parents, and some parents just think spending money on things to keep the kids entertained will get them through. When kids become adults, they're still just big kids in the end because they aren't equipped with the skills they need to be successful in life. I mean, in the case of Elliot Rodger, he never really "grew up."


People rush into marriage and kids too soon. They should take their time, because once you have a kid, that's your (social) life "over", in a sense. Now you should make your life revolve around your partner and children. It is what you have to do, to give a child a fair start in life. I wish people would know this more.

I don't have more to add rather than I agree with what has been said already. However, I will admit I'm glad I live in Ireland; whether it would be the right decision or not, I would not like armed policemen on the streets or having the ability to freely buy a gun. It just frightens me. I think there's too much of a risk of things going wrong. I know at-least you are careful with your weapons, anyway.

- BlackMageMario
Counterfeit // FIRE AND FORGET [~]
(CCCP:~) counterfeit% cat чики-брики.txt
OH. Yeah, that term's really ambiguous so I didn't know if you were talking about the TV show. I've seen it a few times with my fiancé, and it's really intriguing. That said, I didn't watch it past the first 10 episodes of the first season and a few episodes of the second season... Should probably get back into it. It's always on-demand. That said, I'm not sure if it's going to have a real impact on the issue of mental health. It seems to be getting worse rather than better so far. =/

@BlackMageMario: In regards to marriage/kids - a lot of them actually aren't even getting married before they have kids. Sometimes they just "have an accident" and stay together regardless of whether they truly love each other, and sometimes that doesn't even last. A lot of these parents aren't financially well off enough, which brings me back to my point about America and wealth:

Sure, we have some really rich people living here with billions of dollars, but the majority of people make under $50,000 a year. Dollars per capita isn't a good way of looking at our true wealth because it seriously inflates what the majority has and it gives a very false image of what America is. Here's a long and detailed study.

All I know is I'm not having kids until we know we can handle it. I'm still gonna get married long before that.

In regards to nervousness: I'm not going to lie, I felt the same way at first. A little bit of experience changed my outlook drastically, and it taught me to trust myself - prior to that, I always questioned myself and thought I would always make an error in regards to many things I did. They're good tools for confidence and concentration.

In regards to safety: I'd like to become an RSO at my club some day but I gotta look into how. I also wanna make sure people I know are getting the right information they need out of their LTC safety classes if I can help it; my co-worker signed up for one at a different place than I did and they didn't give her the safety book to study from when she signed up and she doesn't have an overview of what's to come, just a day to show up. Like... what.

And, where I live, we don't have the option to freely buy a gun unless it's airshit or some other toy. :V Safety course goes for $150-$200, and is required by law before you get a license, which is $100 per application no matter what level you're going for. There's a thorough investigation into your background. It's non-refundable if you're turned down. If you give misleading information, you're fined up to $1000 and are never allowed to reapply, so any mistakes you've made your whole life that bar you, you have to live with forever. If you get turned down for an LTC without reason, then I believe it's another $100 to appeal it in court, which is ALSO non-refundable. So yes, it's expensive just for the right to legally own a firearm here in MA.

Also, I wonder about Switzerland. It's a very low murder rate, yet they're armed to the teeth. AND they love chocolate. I found this to be an interesting read... (Just stay out of the comments section.) If I ever had to move to Europe, I'd say they're a really cool nation; I wish America would be more like them.
✪ ✪ ✪ ✪ ✪
~ COU/NTERFEITGTX460 ~
Gentoo Linu/x userEx-Sta/ff
Overcaffeinated/My Anime_ List
I AM SILLY_2A Supporter
Pages: « 1 »
Forum Index - Sunken Ghost Ship - Forum Graveyard - Hot off the Press - Teen's plan to kill family/bomb school in MN gets thwarted

The purpose of this site is not to distribute copyrighted material, but to honor one of our favourite games.

Copyright © 2005 - 2019 - SMW Central
Legal Information - Privacy Policy - Link To Us


Total queries: 7

Menu

Follow Us On

  • YouTube
  • Twitch
  • Twitter

Affiliates

  • Talkhaus
  • SMBX Community
  • GTx0
  • Super Luigi Bros
  • ROMhacking.net
  • MFGG
  • Gaming Reinvented