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New Jersey threatens to take child away from family over... pencil-twirling?
Forum Index - Sunken Ghost Ship - Forum Graveyard - Hot off the Press - New Jersey threatens to take child away from family over... pencil-twirling?
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Counterfeit // FIRE AND FORGET [~]
(CCCP:~) counterfeit% cat чики-брики.txt
Not even making this up.

Watch the video and tell me, do you feel threatened by how he spins this pencil?

Story in short:
- Child is bored, spinning his pencil, and kid behind him starts trouble by saying "he's making gun motions, send him to juvenile detention!"
- District demands child gets evaluated before being allowed back in school, but later finds there was nothing wrong and redacts the suspension.
- Child protective services still get involved despite school claiming no further action would be taken.
- Accusations of neglect/abuse from the CPS because parents didn't take kid to get a psychiatric evaluation.
- Parents take him to get evaluated, comes back clear
- State still threatens to "terminate parental rights" and place child up for adoption, mandating further evaluation
- Family contacts Gov. Chris Christie in desperation

Ordering psychiatric evaluations with absolutely no concrete evidence of any wrongdoing and then telling child protective services before you can determine that the was no problem after all?

what

i--

God damnit, New Jersey. You really have earned your nickname of Hell. I people to write to Chris Christie to push him to launch an investigation on the child protective services before it's too late and Ethan gets taken away from his home. This blatant hoplophobia is a senseless means of tearing a family apart. The CPS is overstepping its boundaries and it shall be known that there is no place in America for this abuse of power.

One would have to be incredibly ignorant of gun safety rules to think of 'twirling' as a gun motion. My perspective of the situation is they acted on a kid being a giant jerk, and in true fashion of the American school system, punished the innocent boy, because they also do not know enough to see through the idiotic claim made by that other student.

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The CPS has done it. Honestly, if I was that family, I'd probably just ignore everything and all threats, ask for help from Christie, and wait. Asking him for help is the right thing to do, but so is the former. I have my own policy, and part of it is that I'll ignore things that are obviously false accusations and are fucking stupid, and this is one of them. Hope everything turns out OK for the family.
HOLY CRAP

Of course THIS had to happen right when I was confident I had seen the stupidest in humanity.

If twirling a pencil is risking harm, then schools sure are letting a lot of things slide.

--------------------
Science teachers are too afraid to teach their students about the element of surprise.

Believe it or not, I actually am (attempting to) work on a hack. Just very slowly.
I have read idiotic things like this situation that have happened but I am astounded by the stupidity of this case. Of course, I expected something like "there is two sides to this story" or "you do not know the full story" thing which is absolutely ridiculous. I do hope the child turns out to be alright in the end of this.

Some of the comments in the comments section of the page are stupid. I am not entirely surprised however.
EDIT: EDIT HARDER: So apparently the story is real but the site linked didn't post any sources or references to back it up, which is quite annoying. Whatever the case, whatever I said before still stands. As for the whole agenda thing, the site didn't appear to propogate an agenda, but it potentially could.

I'm just confused, really.

- BlackMageMario
Originally posted by BlackMageMario
People are too paranoid for their own damn good.

I heavily agree with this. If people want to take away gun rights this bad then we have little hope for humanity.
I have trouble believing this story, it just sound so ridiculous and so convenient for pro-gun advocate. It feel like a onion story with a agenda.
Originally posted by Bio
I have trouble believing this story, it just sound so ridiculous and so convenient for pro-gun advocate. It feel like a onion story with a agenda.


Yeah, Cracked.com has been doing a lot of "BS News stories that clogged your Facebook feed." lately and this is the kind of crap that shows up there. Add to the fact that the website is trashy, hard to read and the sheer absurdity of the situation and this seems pretty unlikely. Even in the most badly run of systems some guy saying "HE'S POINTING HIS PENCIL LIKE A GUN" does not generally get the kid taken by social services even when the head teacher says nothing was wrong. It's not the 1600s.
Counterfeit // FIRE AND FORGET [~]
(CCCP:~) counterfeit% cat чики-брики.txt
I don't think you non-Americans (Bio and Error 52) know how paranoid a lot of school systems are here. Massachusetts, New York, New Jersey, and California are the worst in this regard. There are all kinds of rules in our handbooks about a 'zero tolerance' policy regarding weapons, and if someone overhears you talking about weapons or violence without context, or even wearing a shirt that references weapons in any form, the staff still have to deal with you. I know that Florida has a bill (nicknamed the poptart bill) that tries to loosen things up and let kids be kids, but here's how MA goes in my own personal experience:

I've been suspended for similarly silly things in Massachusetts and told to see a psychiatrist, i.e. everyone used to shoot each other with mini-staplers in class, and one day, one person took it as a death threat when I asked if they were okay with it on the bus, and lo and behold, I'm suspended. They brought police to the school and had my parents come in to talk to me about it. I was spoken to a few years later because I was talking about an MMORPG and someone heard me mention 'killing' without realizing I was talking about characters in the game, not people, and the school administration had to make sure I wasn't a threat to anyone. Seriously.

@Bio: about the agenda thing: Are you familiar with Michael Bloomberg, ex-mayor of NYC and 16th richest man in the world, who got the Big Gulp drink banned in NYC? (Because god forbid you drink a big soda, even if you're healthy.) He created an organization which claims to be 'grassroots' when it's really completely funded by him, and buys people's voices to speak for him, and he's using his money to buy his desired politicians into office. I'd call what he's doing a MAJOR agenda, if anything, and I'm worried because it threatens to take away things my fiancé and I enjoy doing together, among other things.

@Error 52: Cracked.com is one of the least reliable sources of information on the internet so I'm completely mind-blown you cite that as a reason for dismissing this news story. It's just an opinion blog written in an edgy, humorous style. This 'trashy' site, on the other hand, is a real local news channel.

A lot of small businesses and local organizations have really shitty web design: even one of my favorite coffee shops which now has over 20 locations in Massachusetts and is INCREDIBLY popular in the area has a horrible Geocities-tier website, and as soon as I get a portfolio all ready, I'm going to try making them an offer. While a site looks bad and gives you impressions of its content based on its image, it doesn't invalidate the credibility of the site, business, or organization, or the quality of their product.

You know the saying, never judge a book by its cover, right?
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Quote
Error 52: Cracked.com is one of the least reliable sources of information on the internet so I'm completely mind-blown you cite that as a reason for dismissing this news story. It's just an opinion blog written in an edgy, humorous style. This 'trashy' site, on the other hand, is a real local news channel.

A lot of small businesses and local organizations have really shitty web design: even one of my favorite coffee shops which now has over 20 locations in Massachusetts and is INCREDIBLY popular in the area has a horrible Geocities-tier website, and as soon as I get a portfolio all ready, I'm going to try making them an offer. While a site looks bad and gives you impressions of its content based on its image, it doesn't invalidate the credibility of the site, business, or organization, or the quality of their product.

You know the saying, never judge a book by its cover, right?


I'm not saying that cracked.com is the best source, but I'm making the point that there's a lot of these kind of these stories that are straight bullshit. And being a real news channel means fuck all to its credibility, let's be honest.
Quote
Error 52: Cracked.com is one of the least reliable sources of information on the internet so I'm completely mind-blown you cite that as a reason for dismissing this news story. It's just an opinion blog written in an edgy, humorous style. This 'trashy' site, on the other hand, is a real local news channel.

A lot of small businesses and local organizations have really shitty web design: even one of my favorite coffee shops which now has over 20 locations in Massachusetts and is INCREDIBLY popular in the area has a horrible Geocities-tier website, and as soon as I get a portfolio all ready, I'm going to try making them an offer. While a site looks bad and gives you impressions of its content based on its image, it doesn't invalidate the credibility of the site, business, or organization, or the quality of their product.

You know the saying, never judge a book by its cover, right?


I'm not saying that cracked.com is the best source, but I'm making the point that there's a lot of these kind of these stories that are straight bullshit. And being a real news channel means fuck all to its credibility, let's be honest.
Counterfeit // FIRE AND FORGET [~]
(CCCP:~) counterfeit% cat чики-брики.txt
If this story is fake, please provide evidence supporting your claim.

Edit: There are letters from the school, the clinic, and the CPS, including one SIGNED letter in the video, which point more towards this being real.

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Originally posted by Counterfeit
I don't think you non-Americans (Bio and Error 52) know how paranoid a lot of school systems are here.
Indeed, I can't say I have been exposed to the gun culture of the US. This story seemed so ridiculous that assuming that it was a satire of gun control that use a slippery slope fallacy made more sense to me.
Originally posted by Counterfeit
Are you familiar with Michael Bloomberg, ex-mayor of NYC and 16th richest man in the world, who got the Big Gulp drink banned in NYC?
No, but I heard about a think tank that a bunch of rich libertarian supported to spread lie about global warming, free market, secondhand smoke and taxation. It's crazy that once you have enough money, you can just buy peoples to support the belief you have and screw everyone else.
Originally posted by Counterfeit
Cracked.com is one of the least reliable sources of information on the internet so I'm completely mind-blown you cite that as a reason for dismissing this news story.

Cracked can sometime be a decent source of information if you check the sources after reading the article, since they tend to oversimplify things to set up dicks or nerd references jokes.
Originally posted by Counterfeit
There are letters from the school, the clinic, and the CPS, including one SIGNED letter in the video, which point more towards this being real.

there is something interesting in the document neither the video or article address

this mean that either someone was crazy enough to call the pencil-twirling a violent behavior or it got classified like that because it was badly handled by the bureaucracy.

Sadly, the same thing (sort of) happened again. This is kind of expected in this case, since a lot of media seem to have jumped on his mental issue to justify the sandy hook shooting (probably because it's easy to blame mental illness).
Originally posted by Bio
No, but I heard about a think tank that a bunch of rich libertarian supported to spread lie about global warming, free market, secondhand smoke and taxation. It's crazy that once you have enough money, you can just buy peoples to support the belief you have and screw everyone else.

I wouldn't call it lies. I'm not sure about the others, but there are some people who believe that think that the affect of human activities on climate change is overexaggerated, and that global warming is caused to a larger extent by natural climate changes.

Back on topic, I personally do not have trouble believing at all that a child would be put into some serious trouble with DYFS over this- not only because of the incredible terror that people have over anything related to guns and schools, but because DYFS is infamous recently for pulling this kind of thing. I personally live in New Jersey, and from what I've learned there was previously a lot of scandals about DYFS being understaffed and unable to respond to legitimate cases of child abuse, leading to major reforms in the organization. However, after this DYFS began to overcompensate in the other direction, taking children away from their parents at the slightest provocation and making it incredibly hard for parents to appeal their decisions. This is something that has to stop.
Counterfeit // FIRE AND FORGET [~]
(CCCP:~) counterfeit% cat чики-брики.txt
@eXcavator: I dug up this petition and you're right - things like this are happening to a lot of families. Who is regulating the DYFS? Why don't they pursue more legitimate cases where a child is allegedly being physically hurt or starved and is at risk of dying?

Found another story of abusive taking of child custody, this time in Massachusetts:

I found out about another case of child protective services being abusive. Here's an easy telling to understand along with the presented fact that there have been several other cases like this in Massachusetts in recent times. In short, a misdiagnosis by a new doctor led to this girl being confined in a psychiatric ward, under MA state custody for sixteen months.

In my eyes, this is nothing short of abduction, and by the government, no less. "Medical child abuse" is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of. Unless they're pumping pills or syrups down the kid's throat or sticking them full of needles, I fail to see how the parents abused her. But no, mandating the treatment she had under her original doctor is enough to get your child taken away now. She had a doctor who KNEW what the problem was, and then these new guys mess up everything and throw the child into a psychiatric unit.

A judge JUST ordered that the girl can go back to her parents because 'circumstances have changed' - so, after sixteen months of being separated from her family, she's finally going home today, having missed a lot in life.

Thanks for nothing, Massachusetts. I hope this hospital or the state gets nailed with a major lawsuit.

@Bio:
Quote
Sadly, the same thing (sort of) happened again. This is kind of expected in this case, since a lot of media seem to have jumped on his mental issue to justify the sandy hook shooting (probably because it's easy to blame mental illness).
ADHD isn't traditionally a cause for violent behavior, so that explanation in the article doesn't really make sense. "Problems communicating"...maybe Asperger's-related? Then I could understand where this is coming from because he probably didn't realize his actions weren't "socially acceptable" or understand how seriously the school would take them. Not to say "stupid" at all, but rather socially awkward.

I think the whole stigma of mental illness needs to end because some people who are 'ill' but 'functional' are afraid to seek help because of discrimination and deprivation of rights. Why is mental illness on the rise here? Is it really just becoming more noticed, very overdiagnosed, or do our increasingly sedentary, indoor lifestyles contribute to deteriorated mental states? My depression I've had for 8+ years went away when I started getting more active, going outside often, and had more companionship, and even my OCD died down considerably, both of which were not helped at all by the SSRIs I was put on despite both of my diagnoses being linked to serotonin problems, which makes me question, just how much of this is labels for 'undesired emotions or behaviors or attention spans' and how much of it just exists for profit in pharmeceutics and healthcare? I don't deny the authenticity of all mental illnesses, but some of them just seem so... fickle to diagnose. Not to mention, people blaming mental illness for everything throws this blanket over those with a diagnosis that makes them all seem dangerous or inept.

Anyways, it seems like it has a slightly better backing to it concerning the "death threat to a girl in a separate incident" but I'm still not sold on the notion that an 8-year-old had a "concrete plan" to commit murder. Why are they only taking action on it after the paper incident? The rolled paper also needs more context: was it disruptive during class? Was he intentionally harassing other students, or were they just playing an innocent game?

Oh, and there's this gem where a first-grader turns in a toy revolver he found in the spare backpack that his mom gave him after he left his main backpack with a friend. He got suspended. Uh.... whoops? I mean, wasn't he doing the right thing? He didn't know he came to school with it... =/

Quote
Cracked can sometime be a decent source of information if you check the sources after reading the article, since they tend to oversimplify things to set up dicks or nerd references jokes.
Fair point.

Quote
No, but I heard about a think tank that a bunch of rich libertarian supported to spread lie about global warming, free market, secondhand smoke and taxation. It's crazy that once you have enough money, you can just buy peoples to support the belief you have and screw everyone else.
The Heartland Institute: Wow, I've actually never heard of this.

- I'm in the group that believes global warming is caused more by natural cycles (including belief that while the earth follows an elliptical path, it's not perfectly steady, and the path periodically extends and contracts over the course of many years) and our CO2 emissions are very minimally impacting the temperature, but I do not think that warming the planet unnaturally is in any way beneficial like the Wikipedia article claims THI says. (Fun fact: The polar ice caps GREW a lot in 2013 and we had a pretty cold year where I live.)

- Secondhand smoke health risks, to me, are in regards to how often you're around it. I believe no doubt firsthand smoke is worse because you're taking far more of it into your body, but if you're only catching a whiff of secondhand smoke a few times a week, I think your body will be okay. I personally tend to come down with cold-like symptoms from secondhand smoke because my body is really intolerant to something in cigarettes. This is one thing I like about renting a house where the landlord prohibits smoking inside: I never have to be around it anymore... and I've felt healthier ever since.

The rest of it, I can't say I have a strong opinion on.

Quote

this mean that either someone was crazy enough to call the pencil-twirling a violent behavior or it got classified like that because it was badly handled by the bureaucracy.
Oh, I'm not surprised because that's how things work in the school system... if it violates the zero-tolerance for weapon-related displays that's in most student agenda booklets, then it's probably going to be listed as violent behavior.

Quote
Indeed, I can't say I have been exposed to the gun culture of the US.
I could share my perspective with you via PM if you were interested; the amount I have to say on this would warrant its own thread.
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Originally posted by Counterfeit
Found another story of abusive taking of child custody, this time in Massachusetts:

I found out about another case of child protective services being abusive. Here's an easy telling to understand along with the presented fact that there have been several other cases like this in Massachusetts in recent times. In short, a misdiagnosis by a new doctor led to this girl being confined in a psychiatric ward, under MA state custody for sixteen months.

In my eyes, this is nothing short of abduction, and by the government, no less. "Medical child abuse" is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of. Unless they're pumping pills or syrups down the kid's throat or sticking them full of needles, I fail to see how the parents abused her. But no, mandating the treatment she had under her original doctor is enough to get your child taken away now. She had a doctor who KNEW what the problem was, and then these new guys mess up everything and throw the child into a psychiatric unit.

Oh, it gets better- the person who wrote the second article claims in the comments section (where one person claims that we HAVE to accept what the hospital did and not ever question it if we want to accept that other methods of treatment (faith healing, herbal remedies, being a jehovah's witness and refusing to allow blood transfusion) deserve having the hospital take medical rights away) that the woman who started all this diagonsed the kid with a condition she herself claims to have discovered. Assuming this is true, that just makes the whole thing worse. Assuming it's all true, I wouldn't be surprised if said condition doesn't even exist!


<Adam> I feel like smwc is a prostitute now, because we put up a porn ad for money

Remember, people! Telepathy is a wooonderful magic!
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