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Breaking levels with Capes
Forum Index - Events - Super Mario World Central Production 2 Completion Project - SMWCP2 Archive - Breaking levels with Capes
Pages: « 1 2 » Thread Closed
Alright, this is a little complaint from me that I think we should help out with, since this problem could be really major in the future.

I've seen a lot of levels that are easily exploitable using a cape because they can just fly over the level even when one is not supposed to. This isn't really a problem with former worlds like World 1, but I feel like it would make the levels too easy for World 2 and on, otherwise it'd take away the challenge from some of the latter worlds.

So...Should we find several ways to avoid level-breaking with capes?

A few levels that are exploitable with the cape:

-Euphoric Eminence (It's not so exploitable, since there's a ceiling generator.
-Candy Calamity (Most if it can be flown over, but when you enter the second section, you'll actually have to pass a line guided area before flying again.)
-Crystal Conception (COMPLETELY breakable)

And I have some ideas to prevent level breaking as well.

-No-Cape Generator (Prevents high flying)
-Ceiling Generator (You won't be able to go over the screen)

And anything else I can't think of. Discuss.
R.I.P. eXcavator... You will always have a place in our hearts...
Should we care that people would want to break the levels with a cape and not experience them? I don't see the problem if a level is particularly brutal and you just don't want to go through it 123 times.

Extras



I should have something witty to put here (even if it's just to update dated info), shouldn't I?

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Cape breakage won't be as big of a deal as you think it will. Barring that, a 100% run won't allow for it anyway.

If anyone wants to break the level, I say let them. It'll be their own fault if they miss out on parts of the game.

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<blm> zsnes users are the flatearthers of emulation
Yeah, this complaint can really be applied to any hack. If people are going to break a level, it's their loss.
I understand people's opinions here, but won't it look weird how they're flying off screen at the top of the level? It would also make the objects look like cutoff sometimes. That...Is not good.
R.I.P. eXcavator... You will always have a place in our hearts...
I can't think of any levels where that's likely to be a legitimate issue. Overall the hack is pretty much built with the cape in mind, so any of the types of areas you described are going to be pretty hard to find.

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Pepper your angus.

Extras



I should have something witty to put here (even if it's just to update dated info), shouldn't I?

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Originally posted by Falconpunch
I understand people's opinions here, but won't it look weird how they're flying off screen at the top of the level? It would also make the objects look like cutoff sometimes. That...Is not good.


As long as the gameplay holds up and any cutoff isn't detrimental to a crippling level, who (that matters) honestly cares about cutoff?

Overall, it's a moot issue, especially at this point in development. I vaguely remember grumblings regarding the issue early on in SMWCP2's life with the resulting consensus being level authors should build their levels with all possible powerups in mind as they see fit. If designers wanted to deter cheaty cape usage then they built their level(s) in such a way to minimize such usage. Otherwise, who cares? I'm sure if a level author was duly concerned about "cheating" they would have already designed proper deterrents into their levels.

Besides, it was an ability that existed in the original game. It's not like we're exploiting a glitch. If people want to fly over every level, that's their prerogative.

Originally posted by Falconpunch
-No-Cape Generator (Prevents high flying)

This is a pretty serious mechanic change you're suggesting here, even if you're only suggesting on a per level basis. Levels were designed with specific mechanics in mind. To change a mechanic after the fact is asinine. (I understand that the levels you're potentially questioning may not be subject to this, but still, it's a relevant point.)

Originally posted by Falconpunch
-Ceiling Generator (You won't be able to go over the screen)

I find Ceiling Generators to be pretty finicky at times. I believe designers have to want to use and have purpose when using a ceiling generator. Otherwise they feel grossly artificial and/or forced. Under such circumstances, they often become more of a nuisance than a "cheat" prevention. There's definitely a time and place for ceiling generators, but popping them in willy-nilly is juvenile design.

Also, maybe it's just me, but I'm utterly confused by you're cutoff complaint. We can't see above the screen anyway, so...yeah....
I agree with pretty much all of the people above. If they do not want to have fun, then that's their loss. I understand that you don't want the levels to be super easy, but I'm sure most people won't skip it to have the fun feeling of it.
Originally posted by Milk
Also, maybe it's just me, but I'm utterly confused by you're cutoff complaint. We can't see above the screen anyway, so...yeah....


I get what he's saying, but it's still dumb. Given that he would rather implement patches that radically alter gameplay just to deal with potential cutoff here and there shows that his mind is in the wrong place when it comes to level design.
I think the Nintendo-guys were VERY cool to give the player a choice of how they play the game. #ab{:)}

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Originally posted by S.N.N.
I get what he's saying, but it's still dumb.

Yea, I knew it was just me. I see what he's getting at now and I can only echo your sentiment on the matter.
I still understand your opinions, but in a couple levels, this could happen:



As you can clearly see, I flew over these walls because there was no ceiling generator, and the dirt is passable. In Lava Lift Lair, one could accidentally hit a firebar and lose cape powers, then get stuck and is forced to commit suicide. That's not good.

Onsen Overhang has this problem as well, except you can get out of it by jumping up that ledge to the right. But if you fall into a different ceiling, this could happen:

The player is stuck, and cannot get out of it. If you haven't beaten the level, you'll have to reset the game. That's very bad, and affects the brand of the game.

There's probably a couple of other levels that have this sort of thing and should be fixed to prevent the player from getting stuck or seeing cut-off or whatever.
R.I.P. eXcavator... You will always have a place in our hearts...
The last few screenshots could be fixed by making the dirt solid. Also, even if we didn't make them solid:

Originally posted by Falconpunch

Duck-slide and then keep jumping to the left until you get out.

No idea about the first one though.
Need I say more?

R.I.P. eXcavator... You will always have a place in our hearts...

Extras



I should have something witty to put here (even if it's just to update dated info), shouldn't I?

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Easily adding a ceiling generator to those examples will fix the problem. It is an interesting case of you moving the goalposts, since you never once brought up "the player can get stuck" in any of your posts up until now.

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There's probably a couple of other levels that have this sort of thing and should be fixed to prevent the player from getting stuck or seeing cut-off or whatever.


just apply a "tw: cutoff" to the front of the game

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Very very very shortly, this drab, workaday world and everything in it will be changed forever! Follow us into the golden country, into the empire of the senseless!
Or replace the walkthrough tiles with solid ones...

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What-A-Blast! - My WIP Super Mario World hack
**Layout by Erik557


I still think that it is the player's fault. After all, the player was NOT supposed to try to break it.
Pages: « 1 2 » Thread Closed
Forum Index - Events - Super Mario World Central Production 2 Completion Project - SMWCP2 Archive - Breaking levels with Capes

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