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Forum Index - Sunken Ghost Ship - Old Contests & Events - SMW Central Production 1.5 - Bosses
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Which bosses are good where they are? Which should be moved around? Which should be redone?

For reference, here is a list:

World 1: Giant Spiny
World 2: Whack-A-Mole
World 3: Giant Koopa
World 4: Undine
World 5: Deedle-Ball
World 6: Tutankoopa
World 7: Anya the Piranha
World 8: Tap-Tap
Final: Aniki Toadsworth
Bonus: Megadmin
Ersanio told me his Spiny boss was originally supposed to be in World 3, and I found that boss to have unfitting difficulty for its place, so maybe we could consider that, but I'm not sure yet about any of the other ones...
Like I said on the discussion thread, the Whack-a-Mole boss should be kept where it is, I found it to be suitable for a castle from the second world. Not sure about the other ones yet.
Mole, Undine, Koopa and Tutan are cool.
I don't remember the Tap-Tap.
Spiny is okay, but not in world 1, definitely not.
Deedle-Ball (Guardian) is half assed and boring.
Anya is RNG-fest and sooo slow (but imamelia agreed to fixing her already).

Toad guy I don't remember being too hard for a final boss, although the fuzzies are still confusing at first..
Megadmin is in the last world and a bonus-joke, so he can be whatever imo.

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Whack-A-Mole is definitely good where he is and I found him to be the most appropriately-placed boss in the entire game. It's been some time since I played, but I don't at the moment think he needs any reconsideration. I feel mostly the same way about Tutankoopa, as well, though it could be made more clear how to damage him.

Guess I'll have to break the game or a let's play out and refresh myself.


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Giant Spiny: Move him and Treacherous Tower back to World 3. Slow down the fireballs, but allow them to destroy Throw Blocks. Use infinite throw blocks in the battle and have them flip the boss onto his back and you stomp his underside for damage.
Whack-A-Mole: Perfect.
Giant Koopa: Move him and Sinister Dungeon back to World 1.
Undine: Opportunity to damage her needs to be more frequent and the time window should be longer.
Spider Guardian: Leaning more akin to being a different battle altogether.
Tutankoopa: Perfect.
Anya the Piranha:Faster pace. Opportunity to damage her needs to show up much more often.
Tap-Tap: Smaller room to give Tap-Tap the advantage.
Aniki Toadsworth: Needs to be sexier.
Megadmin: Needs a third boss that has Lightvayne riding on a Giant AlcaRobot (actually a recolored Shaymin) and throws electric cheese at the player.

The toadsworth needs to be toned down in difficulty terms I was never able to defeat him without using savestates, make his die with less hits and remove the bigass laser attack (or make it deal less damage). Also, he needs a smaller hitbox during his rush attack in his pumped-up form.

Tookankoopa killed itself before I could even figure out how to damage yeah. (Way too easy for world 6).
Giant Koopa: either cut his HP or remove his second phase where he starts flying up and slamming into the ground. Also, it may be a good idea to remove his ability to stun Mario with earthquakes. Finally, in the second phase, he drops a large number of koopa troopas from the ceiling that are aimed directly at Mario's head, so that either needs to be toned down in some way or removed (they also cause a lot of slowdown because they quickly pile up, for what it's worth).
The spiny boss is way too hard for world 1, but I think it's way too hard in general.

As far as I know, he also speeds up abnormally when he bounces to the right wall or the left one, I forgot which one to be honest. Kind of buggy in that sense.

I'm not too proud of its coding, really. Perhaps just scrap that boss altogether and make a new, actual fun boss because I've received a lot of complaints about the boss being too hard. Or maybe give it new attack patterns. A spiny which shoots fire doesn't exactly make sense.

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I don't remember exactly what the bosses are about, but some suggestions.

Giant Spiny:
Too hard, and the boss is kinda unoriginal. Same with it's name. I'd scrap the boss and replace it with a new enemy.
Whack-a-Mole: It's just fine.
Giant Koopa: A little too hard, and the name should be a little bit more original.
Undine: Don't need to be changed.
Deedle Ball: The ON/OFF Switch is too hard to hit, should probably move it closer a little bit more, and the battle is just repetitive. I'd change the entire battle routine.
Tutankoopa: Also perfect.
Anya the Piranha: Give more oppertunities to hit her.
Tap Tap the Red Nose: Make the spike storm less tedious to avoid.
Ghost Toadsworth/Ripped Ghost Toadsworth: Tone down difficulty.

That's all I got for now. Haven't played SMWCP1 in a while.
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Giant Spiny--awesome boss but not that early in the game. It was really challenging in World 1. The HP was good to not make it too difficult but I know why people complain. By the way it influenced me to make my Giant Beetle boss
Whack A Mole is perfect
Giant Koopa--the HP is too high and the boss experiences slowdown due to the multiple Koopas. Maybe you should fix this. It did influence my Giant masked Koopa though
Undine is nearly flawless
I hated the Deedle ball
Tutankoopa is perfect
Anya needs work. More opportunities to hit her and make her less glitchy. It's possible that the game crashes
Taptap--remove the spike attack. Besides that it is perfect
The final bosses are great

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I already said so in the other thread, but I suppose this is a better place for it: I remember Undine's aim being kind of terrible, which is a problem when the boss battle revolves around making her hit a target with her projectile.

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If it's possible, PLEASE get rid of the fuzzy mechanic on both Toadsworths. Not only it's not intuitive at all to require three spinjumps on them to make them usable, they have funky hitboxes and forces waiting around for one to appear, especially on phase 2. I remember that sometimes the fuzzies even drop off the platform before it's humanly possible to spinjump them 3 times.

To me being able to hurt Toadsworth by jumping on him would make a world of difference. (i.e. when Aniki Toadsworth descends from the sky, you could just jump on him to damage him). This would also allow to replace the fuzzy by something harder to avoid (bullet bill?)

A few small points would also improve this fight to me :
-Phase 1 : The laser attack could randomly spawn higher or lower instead of at the middle every time (which makes it meaningless after a while)
-Phase 2 : reduce the waiting time between Toadsworth's attacks

I don't know how hard or doable any of these are, but if it's not too much trouble I think it'd really improve this boss. I was really disappointed by seeing Aniki Toadsworth as the coolest-looking boss in the game but one of the worst to fight !

Also a remake of this game is a cool idea. I really liked most levels in Production so looking forward to an even better version.
Giant Spiny - it's a bit too hard for a W1 boss. Either the fireballs could be a bit slower, or it could be moved into W3.

Whack-A-Mole - this boss is actually perfect for a W2 ending. It's not hard, also it's a quite fun boss fight.

Giant Koopa - this could be a bit too hard if you don't have a cape. Lowering its HP or making it a bit slower would allow the player to have more "breathing time". If not, a mushroom could drop in the middle of the battle, where the boss starts to ground pound as well as dropping Koopas from the sky. The dungeon itself is also a little hard for the beginning. It's easier if you know how to control the reverse controls.

Undine - I think it fits perfectly for a W4 boss. It isn't difficult, but not very easy at all. I think it should be keeped as it is.

Deedle Ball - I think the ground should be a bit lower, so the explosions won't break the throw blocks. It's a bit annoying if you must jump over the explosion and catch the block in mid-air/while climbing, especially when it speeds up dropping the bombs.

Tutankoopa - It's fine for me, but somehow it feels too easy for me if you realise, you can jump on him multiple times, when it gets hits by these rocks. Maybe making him a little harder would be nice. The overall castle is difficult, where the boss feels quite easy.

Anya the Piranha - the difficulty is fine, as it may be a little difficult for the first time. I suggest making her (?) a bit faster, as the battle gets long with Anya's attack sequences.

Tap-Tap the Red Nose - it's actually fine for me, but the spike rain may be a bit unfair, as it's not always possible to avoid it. I suggest changing it's density a bit, so it would be easier to avoid them. A bit smaller room would be also fine and some of the mushrooms could be removed, so the room would be a tad shorter. If the player would lose the mushroom to break the turn block bridges, or run out of throw blocks - a reset door would be nice.

Bowser - it's fine, but it feels a bit weird that he goes backwards and drops himself into lava.

Toadsworth's Ghost - I think these falling bricks are annoying, especially in the second part (somehow it got removed in the latest update, no idea if it was intentional or not). The first phase is difficult, but it's fine. The second one should have a bit more space to stun the bouncing Fuzzies. The older versions had falling bricks, which vere EXTREMELY annoying. Without them it feels a bit too easy. Either they could fall, but less frequently and in smaller forms or the boss attacks could be a bit more dangerous. A some sort of indicator could tell, where a next brick could fall, to make things more fair.

Megadmin - it's actually a quite fun boss. As far as I know, it does break in SMWCP v1.6, so fixing it would be probably the first thing to do. Oh, and something should tell, you must spin-jump on the note blocks in the last part, to avoid getting killed by it and unnecessary confusion.

I think that's all.
World 1: Giant Spiny - A bit too hard for W1, I suggest to somehow make his attacks that way that can be dodged easier, or replace with an another boss

World 2: Whack-A-Mole - Perfect! Absolutely perfect and fits the W2 theme as well!

World 3: Giant Koopa - It doesn't that much of fit the caves, but perfectly for W3 boss regardless!

World 4: Undine - Perdectly fitting for W4

World 5: Deedle-Ball - Fine, but I would have do something else instead of a ball floating around, while hitting the on/off switch. Though I don't mind keeping it as a boss of W5

World 6: Tutankoopa - Fits perfectly, though it should be more newbie friendly

World 7: Anya the Piranha - Could be more newbie friendly, and the battle sometimes is too long duh

World 8: Tap-Tap - A little too hard sometimes, but maybe re-arranging the battle arena should be fine

Bonus: Megadmin - I think this dude is good as it is!

Now If I could say some words about Bowser battle and final boss Aniki Toadsworth ghost boss:

First of all, nowadays there doesn't exists a decent Bowser boss to be honest, and I think this is the time to make a decent Bowser battle in Bowser's castle, making some kind of strategy and the finisher hp could be for Bowser to get engulfed into lava or something like that.

And I would separate and part in two levels the whole Bowser's castle level:

Final stage 1: Bowser's Castle, with a decent Bowser battle in the end

Final Stage 2: The Void. Toadsworth ghost final battle. And as side note the void level needs some rework in terms of difficulty but that's another topic. Toadsworth Ghost Aniki the 2nd form, the battle arena is kinda a bit too difficult to dodge and attack the boss itself. It may need some work general wise.
Giant Spiny: The pace of this fight was too fast for most boss battles, some slowing down should make that battle more reasonable.

Whack-a-Mole: This was a great as-is

Giant Koopa: Don't really remember this one too much, but I recall it requiring a quick reaction time, perhaps too quick.

Undine: I feel like this fight required too much figuring out for a boss of world 4.

Deedle-Ball: Fuck Deedle-Ball

Tutankoopa: I remember this one working really well, but being a little too easy or hard at times.

Anya: pretty sure I never even beat this thing, because it didn't like me

Tap-Tap: Don't recall any major gripe with this boss.

Final Boss: The falling bricks were a huge pain in this fight.

Bonus Boss: Phase one and two need a general overhaul, and phase 3 needs a change to the note attack.
World 1: Giant Spiny
--Fireballs are too fast, and their formations too erratic. This is the most important issue to address.
--Delay after getting hit is too long.
--Spinning back and forth takes too long.
--Deus ex machina throw blocks feel arbitrary, and come a bit too infrequently.
--The fact that the battle doesn't start until you approach the boss (even though the music is playing) feels off.
--A spiny that throws fireballs, and using throw blocks to defeat it instead of stomping on its underside somehow? It just doesn't make much sense.

World 2: Whack-A-Mole
--I would decrease its HP by a couple of points. Ten hits seems excessive; I'd prefer somewhere from 6 to 8.
--Maybe have it fall out of the hole once defeated, instead of retreating into the hole?

World 3: Giant Koopa
--Get rid of the second phase and the kamikaze attack at the end. Do NOT increase HP to compensate.
--Consider replacing the stun effect with a single falling koopa at the player's current position.
--Make regular koopas kill-able by the boss, to avoid buildup.
--This and the spiny boss feel somewhat similar in design (rolling back and forth in a shell). I wonder if we should just keep one of them.

World 4: Undine
--Either modify Undine's projectile aiming to be more intuitive, or make the wave's hitbox bigger.
--Instead of making the wave move continuously faster over time, have it increase slightly to set speeds after each successful hit.
--The wave should never retreat into the water. That just creates downtime where nothing is happening.
--The spike attack should only generate two spikes instead of three, splitting the platform into thirds. Three spikes doesn't give you enough room to maneuver, especially when the left and right ones make the edges of the platform unsafe. Maybe save the three-spike variant for the last hit.
--Use the spike attack only when Undine gets hit. Everytime else, use the projectile attack, so players have more opportunities to deal damage.
--Don't destroy the projectiles when they hit Mario. Give them a chance to hit the wave. Similarly, let players catch the projectiles in midair if they miss Undine, so they have another chance.
--Do NOT increase Undine's HP beyond 4 or 5 to compensate for the above changes. I'd be fine with keeping it at 3.

World 5: Spider Guardian (Deedle-Ball)
--Alternative A: Remove phase 2, and move phase 1 to phase 2's location at the end of the level. Have Mario find the spider glove instead of fighting for it. Increase the Spider Guardian's HP to 3.
--Alternative B: For phase 2, instead of forcing players to juggle throw blocks on vines, just make the ground more uneven. Extend the vulnerable area to 2 tiles, just like phase one. Consider giving the Spider Guardian a different attack in this phase.
--Alternative C: Remove the Spider Guardian and make a new boss. However, I don't recommend this, because (a) SMWCP2 references it, and (b) there's not much else that would fit, since both the level and boss reference Metroid Prime 2's Sanctuary Fortress area. They come as a set.
--Alternative D: Keep phase 1 of the Spider Guardian, but create a new boss in place of phase 2. I'm not sure what would fit, though. Maybe a miniature Quadraxis or some other robotic creation?

World 6: Tutankoopa
--Have players jump on Tutankoopa once per opportunity, not multiple times. That's inconsistent with how every other boss in the game works. Lower HP to compensate- maybe 3 or 4 hits, as the boss works now.
--If the attack order is randomized (?), change it so that the rock attack is forced every few attacks. I have memories of this battle sometimes being stupidly long because I got five chomps in a row between every rock attack, for example.
--The only attack that poses any threat is the chomp, because it can get in the way during the rock attack (making the battle last even longer, mind). In terms of difficulty, I'm tempted to say this battle belongs in the first half of the game.
--Ties into the above points, but I wonder if Tutankoopa needs more attack patterns, or just different ones.
--The fact that the battle doesn't start until you approach the boss (even though the music is playing) feels off.

World 7: Anya the Piranha
--Opportunities to deal damage need to come more frequently. Force an opportunity every couple of attacks.
--Remove Anya's retaliation attack from the standard attack pool. Consider lowering the big fireballs' fall speed a tiny bit. Never make players move more than a pipe or two to the side to dodge the big fireballs (I forget how big of an issue this is).
--Anya's stem doesn't hurt you, but the smaller piranha plants' stems do? Seems inconsistent.
--Fireball attack is nearly as erratic as Giant Spiny's. More standard formations might be better.
--Make less glitchy. There are times Anya won't reappear until I destroy the shell, for instance.

World 8: Tap-Tap (Had to watch a video of this one)
--Honestly, I would just take this one out and replace it with something else. The whole reason this was fun in Yoshi's Island was because you could throw eggs around and tear up the environment, like a better version of Super Mario Bros. 3's final boss. In this incarnation, you just remove the bridge with a single spinjump, then either toss a few throw blocks at the boss or wait for it to jump in. The whole time I was watching it just felt like a cheap imitation of the real thing.
--If we're going to keep it, either provide infinite mushrooms or remove the need to spinjump the bridge away as Big Mario. Make the arena smaller and symmetrical, spawn the boss further away from Mario, and tone down the density of the spike barrages.

I'll look at Aniki Toadsworth and Megadmin later.

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I agree with everything being said about Giant Spiny and his level.

I don't have anything to add besides remembering every boss after him was OK. Because the final world is BULLSHIT AJWDKWA (:V) I never got to even see Megadmin. I can't comment on his difficulty.

The final toad boss was hilarious.

- BlackMageMario
Please scrap the Deedle Ball. It didn't turn out to be anything like I'd imagined and was a pain in the ass to an otherwise fine level.
Originally posted by FPzero
Please scrap the Deedle Ball. It didn't turn out to be anything like I'd imagined and was a pain in the ass to an otherwise fine level.

I still never knew what you imagined
(reference to inspiration:
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