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Changes that I will be implementing
Forum Index - Sunken Ghost Ship - Old Contests & Events - SMW Central Production 1.5 - Changes that I will be implementing
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 » Link
So I've compiled a bit of info from the current threads. I'm going to list the changes I'd like to make here, as well as adding a few of my own ideas. Let me know if you disagree with any of them.

1. Cut Zephyr Manor's length down by a room or two and tone down what is there.
2. Cut Rupture in Reality entirely.
3. Cut Cave of Lost Pride entirely.
4. Cut Sand Castles of Doom entirely.
5. Replace all of the sprite graphics with the default ones for now.
6. Remove the eight void rooms and make beating Bowser simply lead to FirePhoenix's "surreal" sections.
7. Take the now-removed mountain void room and make it a regular world 7 level. Move Morel Mountain to world 2 to Football Canyon's place.
8. Cut Buried Graveyard entirely and move Weeaboo Manor from world 2 to world 6 (replacing it).
9. Cut Snowflake Cavern entirely.
10. Cut Confusion Chambers entirely.
11. Cut Chateau of Storms entirely.
12. Move Switch of Many Hues to world 7, and move the green switch to world 3.
13. Cut Into the Water entirely.
14. Cut Cave of Elements entirely.
15. Swap Sinister Dungeon and Treacherous Tower, and remove the reversed controls gimmick in Sinister Dungeon.
16. Cut Unearthly Hollow entirely.
17. Cut Wieza Niebo entirely.
18. Remove the underwater portion of Toxic Utilities.
I guess I'll just go down the list and comment on it.

1. Agreed. If we tone down the level, it should be fine.

2. I haven't gotten that far in the hack, but from what I've seen, I'd definitely be okay with cutting it.

3. Agreed. I don't think it's possible to salvage.

4. I haven't gotten that far in the hack, so I can't say.

5. Agree/disagree. Some of the sprite graphics (koopas, goombas, bullet bills, etc.) are fine and fit the general style of the hack just fine. Others (Reggie Bill, Chucks) definitely need to be replaced to make the theme of the hack more consistent.

6. N/A because I haven't gotten that far in the hack.

7. Same as above.

8. Agreed. Weeaboo Manor isn't necessarily a horrible level, but it's way too hard for world two.

9. Personally, I disagree. The level's actually not that bad, I just think the airplane section needs to be replaced with an actual level section. That should quiet most of the complaints.

10. N/A because I haven't gotten that far in the hack.

11. I actually liked this level, but I'm apparently the only one who actually did.

12. If we're gonna keep Switch of Many Hues, then move it to World 7. It's easily one of the most frustrating levels in the hack.

13. N/A

14. N/A

15. Agreed. That should solve the difficulty issue in Treacherous Tower for the most part.

16. This ghost house was honestly a pain in the butt. I'd be okay with keeping it, but it would need to be reworked to remove item babysitting for me to like it.

17. N/A

18. N/A

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Mario's Vanilla Journey

Progress: 22/72 levels complete
Originally posted by akacesfan
9. Personally, I disagree. The level's actually not that bad, I just think the airplane section needs to be replaced with an actual level section. That should quiet most of the complaints.


You're thinking of Permafrost Cavern, the first level of world 4. Snowflake Cavern is the mish-mash of sublevels with no coherent theme on the "secret" path of world 5.
That actually would make sense, I actually really didn't like Snowflake Cavern, I found it to be incredibly frustrating. I'd be okay with scrapping it.

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Mario's Vanilla Journey

Progress: 22/72 levels complete
I don't think the void needs to be removed completely, only separated from Bowser's castle. The castle is already long and hard enough on its own, so ending it after Bowser's fight would be the most appropriate, and then the void can be placed in a different level along with the surreal section and the final boss. The cave void needs to be redone though.
I'm not favor of removing any levels, this is a collab after all and would be disrespectful with who created them. What i do think is best is pointing the bad things of the faulty levels and trying to contact the authors so they can fix everything pointed out, or have these levels be claimed by the public to be fixed in case the author is inactive or don't feel like doing this.



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man i dont like cutting levels either, but i think its necessary at this point

besides, the original game will still exist, so i guess the pages for the two games should make clear the differences (i.e. 1.0 has more stuff but its not as good, 1.5 cut a lot of stuff but its a better game for it. pick which one you want)

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Not sure where to post this, but seems kinda crucial to me ^^.
Does that hack use the multi mipoint patch? I'm not sure but if it does, any edits would have to be done with an older version of Lunar Magic, as the new ones can f*** up the multi midpoints (due to that different main/midpoint entrance thing)

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Incidentally, Lui37 kind of accidentally fixed the problem with the MMP patch with the LM2.2+

I am unsure about removing levels from the hack though I suppose it could be better for the hack if they were removed so I will probably be fine with the removal of some levels. The suggestion from Ludus is interesting however, but I still believe that for the hack to truly be improved, the levels should be removed (no disrespect to the creators of them). I am however going to go along with aj about the void. Separating the void would be satisfactory enough for me.
Is there any space left to move them to an entirely optional bonus world?

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Originally posted by WhiteYoshiEgg
Is there any space left to move them to an entirely optional bonus world?

Took the words right out of my mouth. I was about to ask if there will be any bonus content.
Originally posted by Ludus
I'm not favor of removing any levels, this is a collab after all and would be disrespectful with who created them. What i do think is best is pointing the bad things of the faulty levels and trying to contact the authors so they can fix everything pointed out, or have these levels be claimed by the public to be fixed in case the author is inactive or don't feel like doing this.


Coming from the one who made two of the most notorious levels in the game (Cave of Lost Pride and the cave void area), you're going to need to basically remake them entirely. It's not so much that we can point out faulty spots in the level when it's the entirety of the level itself that was faulty to begin with.

You're welcome to try redesigning them if you wish, but I think most people would agree that some of the levels in the hack are beyond repair. Couple that with the fact that some of the original authors are now inactive, there's really not much we can do besides a) get someone else to fix them (which is still altering their work), or b) cut them completely.
I agree with everythin there S.N.N.

Just want to point out, a post I made in the bosses thread and it kinda links there, mainly about point 6) of your post:



And I would separate and part in two levels the whole Bowser's castle level:

Final stage 1: Bowser's Castle, with a decent Bowser battle in the end, since smw hacking lacks of decent Bowser fights.


Final Stage 2: The Void. Toadsworth ghost final battle. And as side note the void level needs some rework in terms of difficulty but that's another topic. Toadsworth Ghost Aniki the 2nd form, the battle arena is kinda a bit too difficult to dodge and attack the boss itself. It may need some work general wise. I would remove the eight void rooms, with something more fitting, and something worthy of final level (not saying it wasn't worthy enough, but it needs some work I think).
Originally posted by Ludus
I'm not favor of removing any levels, this is a collab after all and would be disrespectful with who created them. What i do think is best is pointing the bad things of the faulty levels and trying to contact the authors so they can fix everything pointed out, or have these levels be claimed by the public to be fixed in case the author is inactive or don't feel like doing this.


I made one of the levels that is going to be cut. I quit SMW hacking a long time ago and it's unlikely that I'll fix it, so I'm ok with that.

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they say... i forgot
1. It's a good idea. If someone doesn't want to remove rooms, a second checkpoint would help.

2. I'd probably get rid of it, but I'm not sure. I love the surreal atmosphere of this level, but it's a bit unfair.

3. The same as 1, but not already sure about this.

4. It's a fine level for me.

5. Um, okay...

6. The Void rooms area actually a fine idea, but I think they would fit more as seperate levels.

7. I forgot how the Mountain Void looked like (or is it the Void 2?). Morel Mountain isn't actually hard, so it would be more fitting for a W2 level, but I have a feeling it's difficulty should be toned a little bit.

8. I'm neutral with this. Even if Weeaboo's Manor is an optional level, it's puzzle is way too complex for a W2 level. If it's gonna be moved, it should be an optional level like it was.

9. It was a bit weird. Maybe redesigning the cloud and the green section would be nice to remove the item babysitting. Other than that, I'm neutral with this.

10. This level also has some P-switch babysitting. I didn't like this level, but I'm not a fan of removing levels. Well, the spot with the Fishing Boo was annoying, as it's too tight to avoid it.

11. Some confusion here and there. Well, I'm neutral with this.

12. I forgot how it looks like, well, so N/A.

13. The gimmick was fun, but the aesthetics were ugly. Probably changing some palettes and these cement blocks would make this level MUCH prettier.

14. I think it can be keeped there. I quite liked this level (maybe only the Layer 2 part is a little too precise), also it's a passage to W7. With it you can skip 2/3 of the whole hack if you get the green switch blocks.

15. Not really a fan of this idea. I like the reverse gimmick, but it feels a little too hard for W3. Maybe making Treacherous Tower a little easier and moving Sinister Dungeon to W4/W5 (if possible) would be better.

16. The jumping felt a bit repetitive until you got into the houses. The overall level was okay, so I'm not sure about it.

17. I liked this level, it was pretty good. The only bad thing was item babysitting. What about small redesign?

18. Yeah, it felt a bit precise near the end. I think it could stay like it is, but the water does drain the timer way too fast. What about replacing the timer gimmick with water breath?


These are just my opinions. I know removing levels won't be the best solution, but it's sometimes needed to do. I'm not a fan of this, but some things must be changed to make stuff fair. Well, I have also a few suggestions what could be replaced with something else. I hope it will help our designers.
Originally posted by Wormer21
5. Um, okay...

It's just a temporary solution. Most people who've vocalized their opinion about the swapped graphics tend to agree that they're not as good as their vanilla SMW versions.
Originally posted by S.N.N.
14. Cut Cave of Elements entirely.

Hm? Other than the missing midpoint and the first room being a bit cramped, I remembered this stage being pretty good.

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Originally posted by SNN
Coming from the one who made two of the most notorious levels in the game

Oh please, stop. It's going to make me blush #w{:>}

While I agree that CoLP is something horrendous, it is a "stand out" level of sorts, just like most levels being cut. These are what we did in the past, and i don't feel like removing them will be doing the collab any good. It's like we are just throwing away content rather then improving it.

Think about it: People who will replay the hack will most likely want to see how much these levels changed, how much they improved, and once they start playing it, it'll be a totally new one. It'll not be an improvement over what we have, these will be a good part of the hack being replaced, it's no remake.

Aditional levels are fine as long as they don't replace old levels.



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Originally posted by Ludus
While I agree that CoLP is something horrendous, it is a "stand out" level of sorts, just like most levels being cut. These are what we did in the past, and i don't feel like removing them will be doing the collab any good.


"Removing bad levels from a remake-styled collab won't make the collab any better." Do you see how silly that sounds?

Those levels stood out for the wrong reasons.

Quote
It's like we are just throwing away content rather then improving it.


No, they're throwing away content to make room for improvements in its place or elsewhere. Some levels just cannot be salvaged in their current state and some can be, but are so "meh" in their design that it would be better for them to be wiped clean anyway.

Quote
Think about it: People who will replay the hack, will most likely want to see how much these levels changed, how much they improved, and once they start playing it, it'll be a totally new one. It'll not be an improvement over what we have, these will be a good part of the hack being replaced, it's no remake.

Aditional levels are fine, as long as they don't replace old levels.


"People will see these better levels but won't be an improvement on the bad levels that were previously there."

Pages: « 1 2 3 4 » Link
Forum Index - Sunken Ghost Ship - Old Contests & Events - SMW Central Production 1.5 - Changes that I will be implementing

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