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Changes that I will be implementing

Would it be worth making a separate thread so we can discuss changes that would benefit Zephyr Manor? It's definitely one of the more problematic levels, but I think a few of the rooms can be salvaged and pieced together to make something moderately enjoyable.

e: actually, screw a different thread, I'm open to discussing it in more depth right here. I definitely think the level should start on 026 instead of 102 (scrap that first portion), and I agree with removing 027 entirely as well. There are some other parts that need to be trimmed as well.
I also disagree with removing the void completely, someone suggested splitting up Bowser's castle into two levels and I thought that was peachy keen.

Also, I suggest if we are keeping the void, we don't make it necessary to complete all of the rooms to get to the surreal section. I think completing just 3 or 4 of the 8 rooms would be fair enough as a task (Since when did Bowser force Mario to go to each room in his castle).
I wonder what a HFD opcode would do in ASM...
By the way here's something we NEED to add and use.



For the love of god, if we're keeping any sort of item carrying, please use some outlines for switches and springboards to let the player know where stuff should be used. I first saw this trick over seven years ago when icegoom used them in Mario's Lost World and I almost never see anyone use it despite being so helpful. Half the problem with item carrying is never knowing where the item is supposed to be used.
I agree. They worked perfectly in SMWCP2 so I see no reason why they wouldn't work here too.

..though the most troubling babysitting levels (Unearthly Hollow, for instance) will likely be almost fully redesigned/scrapped anyway.
Originally posted by S.N.N.
12. Move Switch of Many Hues to world 7, and move the green switch to world 3.

Just had a thought: Moving the levels is fine, but it might be better to keep the switch colors where they are, unless we want to swap the relevant blocks in every level that uses them (which I guess would also be okay).
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Originally posted by AxemJinx
Just had a thought: Moving the levels is fine, but it might be better to keep the switch colors where they are, unless we want to swap the relevant blocks in every level that uses them (which I guess would also be okay).

The original SMWCP levels hardly ever considered what switches the player would have activated when they were made, so I figure we'll already be correcting enough of that mess that they can be relocated.
Also, what are we going to do about Gramen Terra? I noticed that pretty much everyone agrees that the level really isn't that great. Are we going to redesign it or just replace it with something else?
Mario's Vanilla Journey

Progress: 22/72 levels complete
What if we swap it with Sunny River (since the latter is clearly much easier) and then slightly redesign it to make it a bit more interesting?
That sounds great! Do you mind if I start getting to work on redesigning the level a little bit (since Ultimaximus is inactive)?
Mario's Vanilla Journey

Progress: 22/72 levels complete
Go for it. Make a thread (like the ones for the other levels) and keep us posted on any changes you make.
Hey SNN, since we're switching Gramen Terra with Sunny River, that means that the redesigned level doesn't need a secret exit, right?
Mario's Vanilla Journey

Progress: 22/72 levels complete
I was thinking of switching it initially, but AxemJinx brought up a good point that I forgot about. The end of Sunny River already has several screens designed using castle tiles, and this sublevel leads into the world 1 castle. I think we'll just leave Sunny River where it is and you can give Gramen Terra a secret exit.
Originally posted by S.N.N.
7. Take the now-removed mountain void room and make it a regular world 7 level. Move Morel Mountain to world 2 to Football Canyon's place.

Just replayed Morel Mountain today, and if you're going to move that to world 2, I'd say its difficulty needs to be toned down in some spots. Considering how easy Cactus Cavern is for world 6, I don't think Morel Mountain is totally out of place in world 7; it could go either way.
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I have a question about no. "14", is Cave of Elements still going to be on the removal list? I think it's a good enough level, but it needs a better entrance and some other minor changes. I'd try to give out my ideas for this, but I've a few questions:

- Is the author active? I think it'd be better to have his/her permission first.
- If it won't be removal, is it still going to be a passage to W7 or something else?
- If not, will it have a secret exit?

I think these three answers may help me. Thanks.
Regarding the changes to my level, I would totally be cool with removing the underwater portion of Toxic Utilities if necessary, but can I get the reasoning behind why we're doing so? Is this about the length of the level or the gimmick itself?

If its the former, I think the fact that Toxic Utilities is probably one of the easiest levels in World 8 sorta makes up for the length (and even then, I feel like it's pretty short). Regarding the latter issue, rather than removing the section outright, I thought this was a pretty good idea:

Originally posted by Wormer21
18. Yeah, it felt a bit precise near the end. I think it could stay like it is, but the water does drain the timer way too fast. What about replacing the timer gimmick with water breath?



Anyways, I'm cool with any changes you guys want to make, but I thought the sewer part of that level was actually the better half.
Originally posted by Buster Beetle
Regarding the changes to my level, I would totally be cool with removing the underwater portion of Toxic Utilities if necessary, but can I get the reasoning behind why we're doing so? Is this about the length of the level or the gimmick itself?

If its the former, I think the fact that Toxic Utilities is probably one of the easiest levels in World 8 sorta makes up for the length (and even then, I feel like it's pretty short). Regarding the latter issue, rather than removing the section outright, I thought this was a pretty good idea:

Originally posted by Wormer21
18. Yeah, it felt a bit precise near the end. I think it could stay like it is, but the water does drain the timer way too fast. What about replacing the timer gimmick with water breath?



Anyways, I'm cool with any changes you guys want to make, but I thought the sewer part of that level was actually the better half.


It was fine, but I guess the main thing is water draining the timer very rapidly. I think the gimmick is fine, but the timer could drain slower or put an air gimmick instead. Yep.
Looking back, I think the time draining gimmick was sort of stupid in general. The problem with an air meter is that the underwater portions weren't particularly long, so there would be no risk of running out of air whatsoever.

If we do go down that route, someone would either have to redesign that section to work with the air meter, or possibly used a modified air meter (like a toxicity meter or something?) that doesn't refill when you come back up for air. Both of which would require a lot of effort that aren't necessary by just removing the section I guess.

Just throwing ideas out there. I'm not really the best level designer, so I trust that judgement to those who are probably more qualified.
Originally posted by Buster Beetle
Looking back, I think the time draining gimmick was sort of stupid in general. The problem with an air meter is that the underwater portions weren't particularly long, so there would be no risk of running out of air whatsoever.

If we do go down that route, someone would either have to redesign that section to work with the air meter, or possibly used a modified air meter (like a toxicity meter or something?) that doesn't refill when you come back up for air. Both of which would require a lot of effort that aren't necessary by just removing the section I guess.

Just throwing ideas out there. I'm not really the best level designer, so I trust that judgement to those who are probably more qualified.


SMWCP2 has a fitting air meter in Myrkky Mainline. In one section it was draining slowly to introduce the gimmick, and in the last one it was draining quite fast. I think the same can be done in this section and the player still would have some kind of "fast reacting" due to it draining quite fast. At least it won't make the timer drain so fast, so we could put just about 400-500 seconds instead of 900.
Using a fast draining breath meter instead seems like a good idea.

Alternatively you could have a different meter that functions the same as time draining, basically a separate time counter just for time in the water.
The reason I was suggesting that we remove it is because it feels so different from the rest of the level. You have this really interesting above-ground portion with a neat gimmick (the darkness + smash), and then you have this sub-par underwater area with time draining water. The level is actually a good length without it I think.