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General discussion, screenshots of changes, etc.
Forum Index - Sunken Ghost Ship - Old Contests & Events - SMW Central Production 1.5 - General discussion, screenshots of changes, etc.
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General thread for any sort of discussions/questions about the project, as well ideas, thoughts, screenshots, etc.
Question: Are we going to have yet another "Base ROM" thread archive thing or are we not going to bother, considering this is basically a remake/improvement of an already existing hack? I mean, there are new levels and many big changes and such...
Base ROM would probably be a good idea. I have this feeling that we'll end up starting from scratch due to all the duct tape that had to be used on the original to keep it from falling apart, plus there's bound to be some ASM that will be obsoleted by the editing/trashing of previous levels.
I'll put up a "new" base ROM within a week. I just want to get a few things established first (such as which levels are definitely going to be fixed, which will be altered, etc).
Quick question: are we going to make levels like Forgotten Forest lead to something? Because seriously, Forgotten Forest was one of the best levels and it was the best World 1 level... but not only was it accessed through a secret exit, you legit got nothing from getting the exit. It lead nowhere, which is a shame. Could we, perhaps, have that lead to the first pipe level? In fact, it would also be nice to have the first pipe level have a visible effect on that submap, so you know that you did something when you completed that level.

I'll be gone for practically the rest of the day so if I don't reply until tomorrow that's the reason.

- BlackMageMario
If the overworld gets redesigned (which I'm on the fence about because I think the original author did an excellent job and it's easily one of the best things about SMWCP), those levels should probably be incorporated onto the main pathways unless we can finally implement whatever unlockable they were originally intended to bequeath to the player.
I played the original SMWCP1, but I never finished it. My save ends at World 8 with some unfound secrets remaining. I should replay it, or at least watch a playthrough on Youtube, before I engage in further discussion. From what I've read so far, though, a lot of what I might have to say has already been said.

Aside from asking to beta-test SMWCP1, I have had literally zero involvement with either of the SMWCP hacks. I don't think I have even made a single post in their forum sections. That said, I still think this would be a great chance for me to work with a collab hack.

You hear dice being thrown...
My SMW ROMhack: Super Market Roll Drums is active once again!
Second 2014 C3 Demo Here ([thread] [demo])
Lunatic Lolo, an Adventures of Lolo 2 hack: 20/54 Levels ([C3 thread] [demo])
Originally posted by Dan Maku
I played the original SMWCP1, but I never finished it. My save ends at World 8 with some unfound secrets remaining. I should replay it, or at least watch a playthrough on Youtube, before I engage in further discussion. From what I've read so far, though, a lot of what I might have to say has already been said.


Vic Rattlehead actually made a very detaile, helpful guide for the hack, if you still need help. You can find the guide here.

So far, I've only had to use it for the scret exits in Football Canyon and Unearthly Hollows.
I'm making this post as a declaration of intent for one of my two levels in the hack, Amethyst Vein. I realize that the offenses this level commits are minor, but I still feel the need to go back and address the flaws that it has. I'll outline them here. All pictures are hyperlinks to avoid table stretching.

Old Amethyst Vein Picture #1

Yeah, the graphic swaps were ugly, so I'm using -the- base ROM from 2009. :P

It should be pretty clear what is going on here, gameplay-wise: collect the p-switch, hit it, and make a mad dash backwards, upwards, over and around through the brown used blocks before it runs out. The problem here is if the player activates the switch to the left of the invisible question blocks, they'll have a hard if not outright impossible time trying to get back to the right of them. I want to make this section flow better and not discriminate against those expecting to have to drag the switch with them like in a lot of earlier levels.

Old Amethyst Vein Picture #2

This is the secret exit "puzzle." It was made convoluted on purpose because the level it unlocks was originally supposed to be required for something special, but that "something special" was never implemented, so this exit just ended up being a little overboard in requirements (needs the green and red switches and a cape). I'll either eliminate most of the requirements here or redesign it so that it has a better, less-breakable flow.

Old Amethyst Vein Picture #3

The first p-balloon section, and it comes right after the midpoint. I'm mostly satisfied with it, but when I made it, I didn't expect only one or two other levels to also use p-balloons (and I believe both are endgame, at that), so the player could very well get all the way here to world 8 and just now be seeing p-balloons for the first time, so I want to tone this section down. Also, the third reset pipe is a little unnecessary, so it's getting the boot.

Old Amethyst Vein Picture #4

The middle chunk of the second p-balloon section. The player shouldn't need reset pipes now that they know what to expect, so I'll likely eliminate most of them. The requirement to fly downward with the p-balloon about halfway through this picture is annoyingly tedious with little actual difficulty, so I'll raise the second half of this image to the top of the level to keep the player from having to endure that. Also, the final p-balloon is extraordinarily hard to grab while Super Mario without abusing L-scrolling, so that'll get adjusted.

Other things I want to do to the level:

- Relocate the midpoint to after the first p-balloon section. Having to endure both of these sections in one go is asking a little much.
- Remove a power-up or two. There are EIGHT power-ups, not including the one that is accessed by the midpoint entrance.
- Possibly cut down on lava lotus spam by putting them in more meaningful spots that are more complemented by the level design.
- Custom graphics...eventually.
- Replace a lot of bottomless pits with lava to keep the player from flying underneath things.

So yeah. If you want a refresher on how the level flows, check out the video I made of it. Bear in mind that I was extremely good at the level then from obsessive beta testing, so it's harder than it looks.

I'll do one of these for Waterlogged Woods in the next day or two. That level ended up being a cakewalk compared to Shoreline Woods, and among other things, it needs a difficulty boost.
Those changes sound good, Mineyl. I'm not sure about increasing Water-Logged Woods's difficulty, though. I remember viewing that as the only sane level in a sea of too-difficult ones, though I could be wrong.

I've finished my suggestions for Worlds 1-4, including the bosses, though I'm saving a few things for later, like switch palaces. Helpful? Not helpful? If it's helpful, I'll try to make another post soon for the next set of worlds. Assuming I can muster the motivation, anyway. How much time do I have?

Also, regarding To Land Much Below, since I'm not up to that yet: My suggestion is to take the timer block mechanic and move it to Time Up Tunnels, then redesign Time Up Tunnels around that mechanic. I've always felt To Land Much Below should be more about the feeling of descent, perhaps including a free-fall section similar to what was in the original SMW's sunken ship stage. Just my opinion, though.

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Youtube (Main) | Youtube (Alt) | Bandcamp | DeviantART
Originally posted by AxemJinx
Those changes sound good, Mineyl. I'm not sure about increasing Water-Logged Woods's difficulty, though. I remember viewing that as the only sane level in a sea of too-difficult ones, though I could be wrong.

It'll be the fair kind of difficulty increase. I want to either get rid of the flying cheep-cheep generator in the third section or make it more relevant so that the player moving slowly doesn't invalidate it, and I want to make both of the two underwater sections harder to cheese with a fire flower. I might do something silly and replace all the fire flowers with capes...

Originally posted by AxemJinx
I've finished my suggestions for Worlds 1-4, including the bosses...

Sweet. I wanna' give this a good read soon. Maybe you should link to your old impressions/suggestions you were doing for each level just after release, as well? You were long-winded in a lot of those and may have touched on something relevant not covered in your newer post.
Originally posted by AxemJinx
Also, regarding To Land Much Below, since I'm not up to that yet: My suggestion is to take the timer block mechanic and move it to Time Up Tunnels, then redesign Time Up Tunnels around that mechanic.


I would be up for that.
What's the plan on the status bar? Is it going to be a sprite one like SMWCP2, or a layer 3 one like the original SMWCP?
I'm not trying to jump the gun here, but would it be all right to make individual level threads? I just want a place where I can casually say things about my levels without cluttering up a thread like this one, but I don't expect there to be a whole lot of discussion about it because no one hates them in their current form.
Originally posted by Extroble
What's the plan on the status bar? Is it going to be a sprite one like SMWCP2, or a layer 3 one like the original SMWCP?


WhiteYoshiEgg's new status bar he released as C3 seems like a nice idea. It's clean and simple, and since we're doing away with the shop system, the 6-digit coin counter won't be needed.

Originally posted by Mineyl
I'm not trying to jump the gun here, but would it be all right to make individual level threads? I just want a place where I can casually say things about my levels without cluttering up a thread like this one, but I don't expect there to be a whole lot of discussion about it because no one hates them in their current form.


Sure, go for it.
Originally posted by S.N.N.
Originally posted by Extroble
What's the plan on the status bar? Is it going to be a sprite one like SMWCP2, or a layer 3 one like the original SMWCP?


WhiteYoshiEgg's new status bar he released as C3 seems like a nice idea. It's clean and simple, and since we're doing away with the shop system, the 6-digit coin counter won't be needed.


Then how will the coins act as? 100 coins = 1-UP like in the original, or something else? The original idea seems fine, but I've a feeling there could be easy 1-UP farming due to the fact, most levels were designed with SMWCP's old coin counter.
Doesn't feel like anybody designed their level with "there's a huge coin counter" in mind, seems like pretty normal distribution.

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Extras



I should have something witty to put here (even if it's just to update dated info), shouldn't I?

Advertising Space

The main problem with WhiteYoshiEgg's status bar (other than how much ROM space it uses) is that it disables the timer. That's fine in normal circumstances, but a couple of levels require the time limit. Those levels will need to be addressed when the time comes.

Custom timers aren't hard.

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Small thing came up regarding the switch palaces on IRC (while discussing my level):

<daxz> is the mechanic used anywhere else in the game?
<daxz> like color-coded switches + blocks
<SNN> no
<SNN> what would be totally neat is if we could find four designers
<SNN> and use that gimmick for all four palaces
<SNN> making it increasingly harder as you go along
<daxz> that would be pretty great actually
<daxz> consistency is always nice
<SNN> i'll bring it up

Would this be a decent idea? The color coded switches are very versatile, and I think we could replace the other switch palaces with new ones that utilize this gimmick (especially since two of the four are super short and one is kind of messy). If anything, it would give us a lot more consistency.
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