Language…
18 users online: A Charater, Ahrion, ASMagician Maks,  Bench-kun, buggy789, caioskii,  Deeke, deporteed, Elie Barnes, Klug, mae_86, Mastered UI - KooLexx, mmBeefStew, Nicoke42, Ralshi02, Ringo,  Telinc1, TheCrazyBuzzyBeetle - Guests: 75 - Bots: 151
Users: 54,896 (2,047 active)
Latest user: A Charater

What annoys you about SMW hacking/hackers

Originally posted by HuFlungDu
- Too hard levels. For serious, what is wrong with us?


People think hard = good and easy = bad. Probably since some of the "better" (read: more popular) hackers design obscenely hard levels (ex: FPI)
- Above all else, the marked tendency to make hacks stupidly hard. It's not that I'm entirely averse to difficulty...I like the Mega Man games, after all, and Donkey Kong Country Returns is one of my favorite games. Hacks just tend to be challenging in a way that's not fun. I get that the original SMW was piddle-easy for the most part, but that doesn't mean you have to hypercorrect to the point where even The Lost Levels starts to look easy in comparison. There's a reason that in 26 LPs, I've only ever done one SMW hack (well, two if you count SMW Hacks 101)...and, for that matter, that there's only one person whose hacks I'm really following all that much.
- The lack of care about SNES incompatibility. Granted, it isn't nearly as much of a problem now as it used to be, but there also is basically no excuse for it now. For that matter, I haven't entirely forgiven ZSNES and its fanbase for holding back things like Addmusic 5 and the SA-1.
- Agreed on the midway point thing. Come on, people...the multi-midway patches aren't that hard to use. They take some getting used to, maybe, but that's not enough of an excuse to make a 50-screen level with only one checkpoint. (In fact, if I were a hack moderator, I'd take points off for poor checkpoint placement/number, and if that ended up pushing it over the boundary into rejection, so be it.) I have yet to see any SMW hacks that actually make use of multiple checkpoints in levels.
- Oh yeah, and though it's not as much of a problem, poor formatting in ASM. I know not everyone likes to do it the same as I do, but you could at least line things up with tabs instead of spaces (but don't tab, like, 4 or 5 times in...what's the point in that?), and I still think ALL_CAPS_LABELS look freakin' ugly. And don't ever use lowercase hexadecimal numbers.
- Also, poorly-laid-out channels in music. I've actually seen some ports put the melody on a sound effect channel, for crying out loud, despite there being 6 (or 5) perfectly good other channels that it could have used. Just because we're not dealing with NES channel limitations doesn't mean we shouldn't at least try to make the cutoff as unnoticeable as possible.
- Another music-related thing that gets on my nerves is when people make an entire port unsampled except for like one or two samples. I figure that, with the possible exception of a few SMW samples that are good enough on their own like 09 and 10, if you want to use the original samples, use only the original samples, and if you're going to use custom samples, why not just use them for all the instruments? It's not as much of a problem with AddmusicK because of the BRR sample system, but if I'm looking for an unsampled port, "entirely unsampled except for this crash cymbal from Final Fantasy" doesn't count.

----------------

I'm working on a hack! Check it out here.
Originally posted by aj6666
-The mentality that levels with good decoration and visuals are poorly designed.
-The mentality that vanilla levels are inferior.
...
-People who think something automatically becomes bad when it's "overused".

^^^

- Whenever people go to hack threads mostly to throw their rage at Tails_155's decoration style. I agree it's not a good decoration style, but it's just an opinion and not a fact. It feels like you're rubbing your opinion on people's faces, and this isn't how things should be. This could also apply for GFX styles like SMW Redrawn, the usage of desaturated palettes, and all the other hacking ways that falls in this category.

- Inconsistent difficulty; all the weird difficulty curves in hacks make me go mad most of time.


I don't know what else to say. I may edit this post later when I remember of more annoyances I have over SMW hacking/hackers nowadays.

EDIT:
Originally posted by imamelia
- Another music-related thing that gets on my nerves is when people make an entire port unsampled except for like one or two samples. I figure that, with the possible exception of a few SMW samples that are good enough on their own like 09 and 10, if you want to use the original samples, use only the original samples, and if you're going to use custom samples, why not just use them for all the instruments? It's not as much of a problem with AddmusicK because of the BRR sample system, but if I'm looking for an unsampled port, "entirely unsampled except for this crash cymbal from Final Fantasy" doesn't count.

It's not like a song is automatically going to be bad because it has like two extra samples, as I've seen a lot of songs sounding really great with a few extra samples (read: SMWCP2). I always found it to be a good idea to have in SMW music, mainly for compositions.

Making fully sampled ports isn't a bad idea as far as you don't use different samples for every music you port, according to the game (just want to throw here that having a fully sampled FFVI port for a level and a fully sampled DKC port for the next ISN'T a good idea, and your opinion kind of implies to use songs this way if you're going to have sampled ports in a hack), but if you mean fully sampled songs by having these different samples as global replacement ones for SMW's, then I think it could be a good idea.

But I didn't find your opinion to be elaborated enough, you simply said that having other samples together with SMW's is wrong, which makes me think it's at the most plain wrong. This just means you're not going to like SMWCP2's soundtrack at all. However, if you do, I'll be seeing the hypocrisy around your arguments. I do respect your opinion at most, but I had to throw my two cents over it.
Originally posted by imamelia
- Another music-related thing that gets on my nerves is when people make an entire port unsampled except for like one or two samples. I figure that, with the possible exception of a few SMW samples that are good enough on their own like 09 and 10, if you want to use the original samples, use only the original samples, and if you're going to use custom samples, why not just use them for all the instruments? It's not as much of a problem with AddmusicK because of the BRR sample system, but if I'm looking for an unsampled port, "entirely unsampled except for this crash cymbal from Final Fantasy" doesn't count.

Maybe because SMW is limited on its instruments and there is literally no way of replicating some specific instruments correctly? Besides, some people do it right and use samples that don't clash with the originals, and sometimes it's too much trouble to make a fully sampled song, especially for lazy people
like me
.



- Compatibility. I know that, being a music moderator, I have to enforce it (not that AMK doesn't do that already, but whatever), but I still hate it; it was the reason I stopped hacking, which was the most entertaining hobby I've ever had. Now I just don't find fun to make a hack, even when compatibility isn't something to be worried about because of the modern tools. It just killed my interest back then because I couldn't port to a new ROM and sadly, I can't get back to it, no matter how hard I try. Also, at that time I could only use Zsnes because my computer (that was given to me when my uncle got a way better one) had terrible specs and had a lot of stuff installed, so I wasn't entirely at fault that I couldn't use another emulator to test.

- As many others said: People bitching at other's styles just because they're "overused". Be it desaturated palettes, weird decorations (like berries in dirt and using sprites as objects), Redrawn/SMB3/YI graphics, etc.

- People forcing change. I get it, change in SMW hacking is good and all, but forcing it isn't; just take a look at the Addmusic4 drama in 2011. Also, yes, shoving it up everyone's asses trying to "suggest" it is also forcing the change.

- Hearing the same music in every hack over and over again, even when the port/composition is poorly done.

- NintSPC. It makes the song for you, places the commands for you, places the instruments where they belong for you, makes almost everything for you, etc. Now, don't get me wrong, NintSPC is kinda great when you start porting because you get used to the whole scene, especially the sampling part, but really, sticking with it forever isn't going to make you a good porter, and technically, the ports are made by NintSPC, not you, but eh.

- Item babysitting and flatness. They're annoying and poor design choices. There isn't really that much to add here.

I guess that's all.
Originally posted by Masterlink
- People forcing change. I get it, change in SMW hacking is good and all, but forcing it isn't; just take a look at the Addmusic4 drama in 2011. Also, yes, shoving it up everyone's asses trying to "suggest" it is also forcing the change.

You know, AMK being enforced is way worse because not a lot of the "Good" patches that change up gameplay really work with AMK.

Anyway, mine...

-Silly and Irrelevant Questions: I've seen quite a few users that ask questions that are so dumb that even looking at the screenshots would answer them. From my personal experience, in one of my hacks, someone questioned if it was a puzzle hack without even playing the game first. #tb{'_'}

-Explaining something, but no one listens: Now I understand that if I explain my reasonings for an obvious bad flaw, I forgive those who still tell me it's a bad idea. HOWEVER, if I explain that this "element" a joke, and someone still points it out... it's like they didn't put their glasses on or something.

-Lack of different palettes for custom graphics: It's pretty common to see the same tileset be used in two different hacks, but it gets annoying if all these hacks with the same graphics also have the same palettes. If you want to make your hack memorable, you should consider making something "different" so your hack stands out from the rest. I get that some people are bad with palettes, or if it's SMB's Graphics that goes to the classic ara, and I understand if it does seem troublesome, but give it an effort first... or combine the foreground with a different background at least.

-Not Enough Songs with Other Game's Samples: I find it pretty rare these days where, for example, a song from Final Fantasy get's mixed with Super Mario Kart's Samples (Bad example, but would be interesting). This isn't really the community's fault, and I have seen a few Mega Man and Touhou songs get mixed with Kirby Dreamland 3's samples recently, but I just like it when a porter challenges themself to use different samples rather than making perfect copies of songs with the exact same samples mixed in. MaxodeX's old port of Natural Killer Cyborg (Not the new one with the Mother 3 samples) actually surpassed the original song in my opinion, and it was great for dangerous "escape" or chase scenes. This doesn't annoy me that bad, but I find the lack of these songs disappointing.

-Bosses with high HP: I'll admit I'm pretty guilty of this, but let's be honest, is a boss more "harder" when it takes more hits to kill? No, it only makes it either boring or annoying. A boring boss is simple to dodge, and you know how to kill it, dodge everything, and pretty much everything about the boss... but killing it TAKES FOREVER. An annoying boss lasts way too long, constantly changes forms, doesn't give you time to dodge everything, and doesn't acknowledge that you ONLY HAVE TWO/THREE HITS! A lot of SMW Custom Final Bosses do this, where they pretty much have 20HP, sometimes lasts longer thanks to a second form, and all you have is two hits. The only time this works is when the Metroid HP Patch is applied... which sadly still doesn't work for AMK still (but thankfully I have a modified version of the patch that actually works with it).



I'll probably continue later, but then again, when saying that, usually I don't modify it.
Want progress on 100 Rooms of Enemies: The Nightmare Edition? Go here to see.

Are you a sample porter and wanna help with 100 Rooms of Enemies: The Nightmare Edition? Private Message me or Mellonpizza for details. Expect trading "resources" in exchange. 4 more left.




Originally posted by Daizo Dee Von
You know, AMK being enforced is way worse because not a lot of the "Good" patches that change up gameplay really work with AMK.

That's not enforcing something though? Actually, it would the the complete opposite. You can still use AM4 if you want those patches, since it doesn't break with accurate emulators and most of the music in the music section can be easily edited to make it compatible again with said tool.
- When decoration in levels overlaps on the payer in a strange way. Like when you think your going to pass in front of a bush and then you actually go behind it.

- Any design that forces the player to use save states and re-winds when its not supposed to be a tool assisted game.

- When you can't tell if an objects supposed to be in the foreground or background when just looking at it and an order to know which it is you have jump on it.

- hacking tools which are command line based, i know i know, it isnt all that hard and I can do it, but there is so much room for error. Just make simple GUI versions like fosoya's ips patcher. It's quick and easy to use and you don't have to type in by hand the file destinations for making and applying patches.

- When enemies are unfair.
Originally posted by HuFlungDu
- Hackers who have double standards on copyright. Put simply, if you are an SMW hacker who locks your hack, I think you are a terrible person.


Not to sound rude here, but how in FUCK HELL does this make someone a terrible person? There are people here who don't want their hard work stolen.

*coldly stares at Ivan*

-kaizo

-that boss music from SMWCP appearing in every single hack

-Unfitting music in vanilla hacks Don't stare at me like that

The same person? Oh nevermind.

- Jumping sfx cut off by coin sfx when you get floating coins in hacks using AMK. There may be other side effects of assigning only 2 channels to sfx (e.g. on/off switch + grinder) but interrupted jumping sfx is most annoying to me. This can be partially fixed by inserting the exact copy of coin sound at the other channel and playing one of two sfx(which are same but in different channels) depending on conditions. I actually tried this on a hack and it became much better. Other conflicting cases may be improved like this, but I'm not sure it's worth ARAM cost.

- When mentality not accepting powerup filters and kaizo traps is too inflexible. Especially kaizo trap has a potential to be a good obstacle even in non-kaizo hacks (see one level in VIP1 though its midpoint trap is too cruel).

- When no-auto-move levels aren't correctly set. Not moving after beating a regular level makes me nervous somehow.

- Mixed map16 tiles for the sake of terrain decoration that possibly hinder from focusing on game, while proper amount of decorations would be ok. Personally I think gamers should focus on what to avoid and where to move, instead of slowly enjoying busy terrain. I have many things to say, but half buried question blocks for no functional purpose are the worst if you ask me, because they lure me to hit them but they're just cement blocks.
Originally posted by Macky
Originally posted by HuFlungDu
- Hackers who have double standards on copyright. Put simply, if you are an SMW hacker who locks your hack, I think you are a terrible person.

Not to sound rude here, but how in FUCK HELL does this make someone a terrible person? There are people here who don't want their hard work stolen.

He's saying it would make you a hypocrite. Through the act of ROM hacking, you're already not giving a shit about "hard work being stolen".


 
Originally posted by worldpeace


- When mentality not accepting powerup filters and kaizo traps is too inflexible. Especially kaizo trap has a potential to be a good obstacle even in non-kaizo hacks (see one level in VIP1 though its midpoint trap is too cruel).



- Mixed map16 tiles for the sake of terrain decoration that possibly hinder from focusing on game, while proper amount of decorations would be ok. Personally I think gamers should focus on what to avoid and where to move, instead of slowly enjoying busy terrain. I have many things to say, but half buried question blocks for no functional purpose are the worst if you ask me, because they lure me to hit them but they're just cement blocks.


These two are also my pet peeves, especially the first one: I am not sure what a Kaizo Trap, but Powerup Filter being hated is something I truly don't understand: We had the "No Yoshi Power Up Filter" in the Original game and no one cared.

Latter, the Map16 story, makes it sometimes to obvious that the game you are playing is a hack. I do not say people shouldn't do terrain decoration, but stuff like half ? Blocks as mentioned are perfect examples of something I dislike.(Half Cement Blocks in the right level looks decent though ;) )
Originally posted by HuFlungDu
- Hackers who have double standards on copyright. Put simply, if you are an SMW hacker who locks your hack, I think you are a terrible person.

Maybe said person is just trying to make their hack stay as original and unique as possible? But then again, I've never seen people using original stuff from open hacks, like SMWCP (except for some bosses). *shrug*

Originally posted by Daizo Dee Von
You know, AMK being enforced is way worse because not a lot of the "Good" patches that change up gameplay really work with AMK.

But said patches can be fixed to work with it someday. AMK being enforced in its early release months sure was a bad attitude, indeed, but when it gets more overall compatible with other patches/tools, there'll be simply no excuses to not use it.

As for my list:

- The mentality that if a hack has solid level design, it's automatically a great hack. It's something a good hack has to have, sure, but if it doesn't try to be innovative in some form (be it aesthetically, be it with level gimmicks, be it with a nice story, etc.), it just won't be much of a memorable experience.

- Enforcing criticism. A hacker doesn't have to listen to everything people say to him/her to the point his/her hack starts to lose every single sign of original style.

Originally posted by Sokobansolver
-Asking "when will you release ___?"

This. It's not really polite to go in a WIP thread and show you're just interested in getting your hands on said work. Giving some feedback doesn't really hurt.

- The lack of lengthy, usually chocolate hacks, especially those with decent custom stories. When I search for hacks to play, I really look for those that try to be as original as possible, and a good custom plot helps a lot in that way. Also, short hacks aren't just that memorable for me, with some few exceptions.

- Custom bosses with major flaws. Tbh, our current boss pool is still a bit lacking, and adding to that, a good bunch of the boss sprites have at least 1 fatal flaw that makes them an annoyance to use or fight against. Also, some of them are hard to tweak, so it's kinda impossible for a non-ASMer to make something more original out of them. This annoyed me to the point I'll be trying to learn ASM just to try to code some bosses, or maybe just tweak and fix some of the existing ones.

- SMW's limitations screwing me: I once built a nice, grand bonus level, only to find out later that levels 0 and 100 can't possibly have vertical scroll at will... at all. I wanted to make colors 8-F of palettes C and D to show up on castle/ghost house entrances because of my redrawn Yoshi, Mushroom and Flower GFX... but I couldn't, because said colors simply don't exist in the original rom, and custom palettes cannot be used in said cutscenes... at all. (And no, global animation won't work.)

Originally posted by Mirann
- Whenever people go to hack threads mostly to throw their rage at Tails_155's decoration style. I agree it's not a good decoration style, but it's just an opinion and not a fact. It feels like you're rubbing your opinion on people's faces, and this isn't how things should be. This could also apply for GFX styles like SMW Redrawn, the usage of desaturated palettes, and all the other hacking ways that falls in this category.

And this. I've seen people tackling Redrawn GFX, yet no valid reasons are ever given (using them wrongly is the hacker's fault, so it's not a valid reason). Sure, it's overused, and some sprites actually look ugly imo, but you just can't find a whole GFX pack that tends to the realistic-looking style in every corner out there, right? Also, it's not easy and quick to draw realistic stuff, y'know. If you're trying to make a serious hack with realistic-looking stuff, it's a really handy option.
Originally posted by Sokobansolver
Or when someone bumps one of their hack threads and people think it's an actual update and get all excited but it was actually a pointless bump.

Quote
-Asking "when will you release ___?"

This as well. Might list some more things that annoy me:

- The mentality that if it's a Kaizo level, it's already terrible. By that I mean, I understand the people hating on those levels are being a minority right now (I think?) and that uploading Kaizo levels to the section is allowed now, but not every Kaizo level is that terrible TBH, as long as it's fun to play overall.

- When levels have decorations that are so distracting it makes them unfocused. I dunno, might be just a pet peeve of mine, but I've already got irked by that when playing some levels and was almost killed by a random enemy. Most levels that have such decoration have a nice level design, and I'm not going to complain in every hack thread to stop people from decorating properly. *shrug*
  • Playing Kaizo hacks with similar aesthetics or with almost no decoration
  • Longly designed Kaizo levels
  • Unfitting music: Especially using Vanilla music


And probably more stuff that I can't think of right now.
I don't see it too often, but sometimes, people are far too harsh when they criticize someone who's clearly new to hacking. Most people have to learn to be good, and telling someone that their first effort is terrible or crappy isn't really constructive.

I have to say that I understand locking a hack, but I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't want anybody stealing from me, but if someone wants to reference my work to learn how to improve their own, that just flatters me as a hacker.
GANYMEDE

Chapter two: Land of No Shame
Coming January 2022
Hoo boy.

Vanilla hacks. These hacks are getting more and more common, and I can understand why. We've really started cracking down on clashing graphics, and since nobody wants to spend all their time drawing tilesets, they fall back and use vanilla graphics. I understand that, but so many vanilla hackers lack ambition and their hacks suffer because of that. There are plenty of really interesting things you can do with SMW without being able to draw your own graphics, but too many people don't bother.

Lack of presentation. Time and time again I see people who have no clue how to properly present their hacks. Whether it be boring screenshots, bundles of screenshots with no textual information inbetween, or entire videos of levels (which I don't even bother with most of the time), a lot of people just don't know how to make people interested in their hack.

Threads with lots of replies. Hear me out on this one: if a thread has too many replies, that means I have to look through many pages to find screenshots. That's not particularly hard to do, but if my interest isn't immediately piqued, I won't feel like it. This can of course be subverted by utilizing a table of contents with links to posts with screenshots, but very few people do that. Team hacks are especially guilty of this.


I don't bother locking my hack because it only takes literally 30 seconds to unlock it anyways. People are free to use my hack as reference if they want to. I might also hide some easter eggs in there as well.

What annoys me the most for me would have to be non-constructive critism. Just saying something sucks without stating why is kind of a head scratcher. Or voting something as low as possible without any reason given at all.

Hackers that make the same type of level over and over again. Playing the game and having 10 levels straight of just grasslands without any distinguishable features is just a snore fest. Spice it up and add some caves or gimicks. Blegh.

Another thing that kind of bugs me with hacks are when people use the same enemy level after level. Having 5 levels straight of football players is kind of redundant and annoying (unless the world is like, Football Land or something).
My Youtube Channel. 90,000+ subscribers!

My Steam Profile



- Bad, repetitive, boring level design all the time.

- Too much sprites at once/sprite memory issues.

- Unfairness. I like challenges but blind drops and cheap/cramped areas are just a no.

- Hacks focusing on custom resources, not on the design. Custom sprites and graphics are cool, but the design is on the first place, I think.

- Finding graphics, music, porting, backuping, etc. etc. It highly discourages me to complete a level/hack. That's why I creating vanilla/choco-nilla.

- Bland levels. Sometimes the design is good, but their levels have nearly no decoration. I understand if it's a vanilla castle/cave, there aren't many graphics, but grasslands have bushes, grass, etc. Feel free to use them, they started to became more underused.

- Bad puzzles. Lots of people dislike item babysitting or backtracking in hacks.

- Some hack "stereotypes". Vanilla = boring, Kaizo = ugly and unfair, etc. It's not true.
People saying:

"I've never seen a good SMW hack."

and then follow it up with

"I don't play hacks often..."

Yeah no wonder.

Also:
"Non-Mario SMW hacks are pointless because they play exactly like Mario."

Let a man add a little bit of his artistry in a hack and if you don't like it then you can appreciate his level designs instead of outright writing the hack off as bad.
a