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Fanatical like a Demon
I understand where you're getting at, but it's all preference, you shouldn't FORCE people to switch to another emulator if it's their preference. If all hacks released here are tested and can work on real hardware, why limit the emulator anyone chooses?

EDIT: I'm betting this has something to do with it...

Originally posted by S.N.N.
WARNING: For best results, play this hack on an accurate emulator like BSNES or SNES9X. It is beatable on ZSNES 1.51, but crashes occur rather frequently due to the nature of the SA-1 and ZSNES's inability to handle it.
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I doubt that will happen. Even though I agree Zsnes needs to be retired by now but it's still one of if not the most popular emulators to use due to the rewinds.
Originally posted by Koops
Hello. I think most SMW hackers agree that ZSNES is like IE6 and should be gone from SMW hacking world. What do you guys think about a patch that detects ZSNES and does not let the player to play the hack and asks him to download a better emulator? Should I release such patch?

That's all fine and good for SMWC, but you have to remember there's a vast contingent of gamers beyond our little neck of the woods here who are likely nothing more than casual players who probably pick one emulator and run with it. Being that ZSNES is a popular emulator among ROM sites, it's safe to assume that a large amount of those users use ZSNES. Something like that would likely leave them with a sour taste towards the hack(s), and possibly, ultimately us. Just because we're willing to change doesn't mean everyone outside of SMWC is. Hell, I still uses ZSNES as my primary SNES emulator and only just started using ZMZ because of the VLDC8. Number one reason is rewinds. Honestly, having finished VLDC8, outside of testing, I'll probably return to ZSNES. I'm part of the SMWC user base and agree with the idea that hacks should work on real hardware, yet I still use ZSNES. Now just imagine how stubborn the casual gamer is going to be when he plays a hack that says something along the lines of "hurr durr, ZSNES sux!! why u no download higan?"

VLDC8 had a valid claim to posting "use ZSNES at your own risk" or "ZSNES not recommended, please use another emulator." And for hacks that use SA-1 or other such things that crash or bug out on ZSNES, I think they should have a warning. But to include a patch that says something along those lines in a hack that initially gets along with ZSNES to begin with is just stupid, and frankly, arrogant.
Originally posted by ninja boy
I doubt that will happen. Even though I agree Zsnes needs to be retired by now but it's still one of if not the most popular emulators to use due to the rewinds.


But ZMZ does exist for quite some time and it's a better and more compatible alternative of ZSNES. Still, I think ZSNES is popular as it was one of the first(?) and the only emulator featuring rewinds. It's an useful option, because you can go back a few seconds to avoid a fail or death.

I used ZSNES a very long time until I noticed ZMZ has been released. It's a good alternative for ZSNES fans.

While this emulator is very outdated, a lot of people still use it and I think a warning would be nice if a hack doesn't work well with ZSNES.
ZMZ is just snes9x looking like ZSNES. Also, ever tried slowdown in ZMZ?
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Originally posted by Koops
Hello. I think most SMW hackers agree that ZSNES is like IE6 and should be gone from SMW hacking world. What do you guys think about a patch that detects ZSNES and does not let the player to play the hack and asks him to download a better emulator? Should I release such patch?

I forget which contest this was (I think it might have been the title screen 24 hour contest) but I remember someone making an entry that was fine in snes9x but when played in ZSNES, it had a bunch of floating Munchers and in general looking like a joke hack. If you can do something like that as well as make the level impossible to complete then that would be funny.
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PatPatPat did that, it was a different level in ZSNES, snes9x and bsnes.
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Originally posted by Wormer21
the only emulator featuring rewinds

Retroarch is pretty rad, it supports braid style rewind and netplay, all while using either snes9x or higan core. It's cool.


Originally posted by Wormer21
the only emulator featuring rewinds


BizHawk also supports the Braid-esque rewinding (as well as a million different consoles). However, it's pretty stressing on your computer when running SNES roms, so I don't particularly recommend it unless you're fine with that, but it has a whole bunch of features that make it useful.



On the topic of preventing people from using ZSNES, though, something as simple as this can detect it. Snes9x can also be detected alongside it by this.
(credit goes to alcaro for the code)

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Okay, I'll be the third cent:
Originally posted by Wormer21
the only emulator featuring rewinds


While ZMZ uses the emulation of SNES9x, it still has got (almost all of?) the functions of ZSNES.
Originally posted by Thomas
Snes9x can also be detected alongside it by this.

That detects only bsnes-compat and -accu. -perf is detected as snes9x by that. (Which may be useful too, your choice.)

If you want to detect snes9x but not bsnes-perf, add 'BVS Snes9x' before the 'CMP #$64 BNE NotZsnes' in the zsnes detector.


edit: ZMZ has Braid-style rewind too, there's a config option for it. Not sure if it's in the GUI or if you need to poke the config.
<blm> zsnes users are the flatearthers of emulation
@HuFlungDu, Thomas, I've never known about these emulators. I guess they aren't very popular. Anyway, they could be an alternative of ZSNES.

@MarioFanGamer, I knew about that, but ZMZ is an ZSNES emulator with Snes9X or Bsnes/Higan cores. It doesn't count that much as a seperate emulator, but it's still a better and less-outdated-looking(?) version of ZSNES.
Originally posted by Wormer21
ZMZ is an ZSNES emulator with Snes9X or Bsnes/Higan cores

As is RetroArch. (In fact, ZMZ and RetroArch uses exactly the same cores.) And BizHawk is the bsnes core again.

I think SNEeSe, SNESGT and no$sns have their own cores, but those three are so rare it's safe to ignore them. As far as I know, everything else is based on the main three.
<blm> zsnes users are the flatearthers of emulation
Could someone educate me on why ZSNES is looked down upon by so many users? Does it have an effect on your hack during development, or is it just buggy?
I've stuck with it since I began hacking and it's worked without many issues.


To put it simply, it doesn't emulate the SNES well, and many games run into issues as a result. In the past, it's has also been partially responsible for compatibility issues with more accurate emulators due to the kinds of things it lets pass (e.g. addmusic), so it's just generally recommended to use one of the more accurate emulators since they're not any more complicated and work much better.

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I use ZSNES to do my work in the Savebase™ section, and I have never encountered any bugs or anything similar.
Originally posted by Vissova
Could someone educate me on why ZSNES is looked down upon by so many users? Does it have an effect on your hack during development, or is it just buggy?
I've stuck with it since I began hacking and it's worked without many issues.

Before SMWC switched to SNES9X and BSNES en masse, the first version of Addmusic was developed and quickly became incredibly popular. However, almost equally as quickly, it was discovered that Addmusic unknowingly took advantage of a bug/loophole in ZSNES' code which made several hacks break miserably on almost any other emulator, including actual SNES hardware.

Since then, ZSNES became majorly despised among SMWC for being out of date and frequently misleading developers.

Fast forward several years, and now that the SA-1 patch is out and ZSNES never had good SA-1 support, ZSNES now glitches out with several hacks which work fine on Higan and SNES9X, as well as actual hardware.

ZSNES was dropped due to being misleading, outdated, and frankly having poor emulation in general. While functional with many SNES games as well as incredibly fast due to all the shortcuts it takes in code, it is a severely limited and flawed emulator.
I've become very grumpy these last few years, and have been biting my tongue here in SMWC's forums quite a bit. I just want to let you all know that if ever I come off as harsh, I still care about you all. You guys are great.

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