Language…
23 users online: 1UPdudes, Abstract, badummzi,  Blaagon, CharlieUltra, dashlet, Dennsen86, DixyNL, GamesInTweed, GiraffeKiller, Hammerer, JezJitzu,  MarioFanGamer, Metal-Yoshi94, MorrieTheMagpie, mtheordinarygamer, Papangu, playagmes169, rafaelfutbal, Rykon-V73, Ryrir,  Segment1Zone2, TheOrangeToad - Guests: 287 - Bots: 459
Users: 64,795 (2,369 active)
Latest user: mathew

Mario & Luigi - Paper Jam - Is it good, bad, excellent, or terrible?

Since around July or August, Nintendo has announced a new Mario & Luigi game, which is actually a crossover between the Paper Mario RPG's and the Mario & Luigi RPG's. Are you hyped, or not hyped?

I was hyped at first, hoping they would do something right...But now that feeling's gone after seeing more of the game. I'm actually not expecting anything great from this game at all. Why, you ask? Well, that's a long story, so if you don't want to hear me ramble, skip down to the "tl;dr" and you'll see why.

As a kid, I loved Super Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga. They were my first Mario RPG games, not counting SMRPG:LotSS. I will be explaining what I think of each game in both franchises, then give my opinion on the upcoming crossover.

Paper Mario for the Nintendo 64 was the start of it all, which had the same plot, but actually made it interesting. The fact Bowser wanted his wishes to come true and stole the Star Rod and imprisoned the Star Spirits showed that Bowser had some sort of intelligence. While I'm usually not okay with "Save Princess Peach!" type plots, I let this one slide because they actually did it right. A spectacular game overall.

Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door also had the same "Peach is kidnapped" plot like it's preceedor, except it adds a treasure hunt story in there too. Because seriously, who doesn't love that? The gameplay is fun, but the battles are a little on the easy side, especially with all the gimmicky stuff in these battles. This game is great, but WAY overrated, at least in my book.

Super Paper Mario was hated by most because "ooh, it's not a REAL rpg game like ttyd!", but those people are nitwits to not enjoy a game with a deep story like this one. Sure, it's not turn-based combat like before, but look on the bright side: The story's very deep and emotional! Outstanding! I wish Mario was known for this, not that stupid "Save the Princess!" cliche...

Paper Mario: Sticker Star...Ugh, don't even get me started. This was a complete trainwreck, and a spit on the face to all of the old-time Paper Mario fans like me. It's clear to me this game was aimed for LITTLE kids, but ironically, the puzzles are almost impossible to solve without walkthroughs. And yet, Nintendo STILL praises this game, and neglects the others! What the fuck?!

Okay, now onto the Mario & Luigi series. As I said before, Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga was my first M&L game in the series, after seeing a bit of it on YouTube. I knew I made the right call, because this story is really great, and quite deep and complex for a GBA game. Classic game overall, love the charm it has.

Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time also had the "Save Princess Peach!" cliche, but just like PM64 and TTYD, it adds a twist to it to make it more interesting: In the past, there's an alien invasion, known as the Shroobs, and gets kidnapped by their leader there, so Mario & Luigi (and their infant selves) must travel to the past to stop the invasion, save the future, and Princess Peach. Plot's REALLY dark, but I love it.

Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story was the first time EVER since SMRPG where you could play as Bowser in an RPG game. This game also has Fawful as his own antagonist, along with his minion Midbus. This game was fun, hilarious, and had a great charm overall. I do wish there would have been something else to awaken the Dark Star than Peach...What is she, fucking key to everything in the universe?!

And last, but not least: Mario & Luigi: Dream Team. This game takes place in a mystical island where if Luigi sleeps on stone pillows, Mario can enter his dream world to save the Pi'illo people on Pi'illo Island, formerly Pi'illo Kingdom. Oh, and Princess Peach gets kidnapped by Antasma/Bowser, big surprise. Cool game, but it gets ridiculously hard at times. To me, this game is the weakest one in the series, at least for now.

So, I've had loads of fun and joy with all the wonderful and not-so-wonderful stuff...And then we're here. Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam. I was excited, but am not anymore, and there are several good reasons to back up my disappointment.

First off, the game copies the entire engine of Mario & Luigi: Dream Team AND Paper Mario: Sticker Star, the worst of the two games. Right now, it's like the two games and NSMB had a baby, and it came out ugly as fuck. We've got lackluster worlds/areas, and a lackluster story, too.

Speaking of stories...The story so far is about how Luigi accidentally drops the book to the Paper Mario world, releasing Paper Mario, Paper Peach, Paper Bowser, and other enemies and creatures, but not Paper Luigi, because everyone hates Luigi. The two Bowsers fight each other at first, but are then willing to team up, and kidnap their respective Princess Peach. So then, Mario, Luigi, and their new friend Paper Mario must travel across the land to save the two Peachs from the two Bowsers and send Paper Bowser and everyone else back into the book.

First off, where the HELL do people get the Paper Mario book in the Mario world? It feels really stupid and out of place, and makes no sense whatsoever. Secondly, this is basically the same plot as "Bowser kidnapped Peach, go save her.", except they had to do it TWICE. That makes it even LESS original, if you ask me...

Next thing, is that there seems to be no new enemies, characters, areas, or even anything new from Mario & Luigi or Paper Mario. Just paper enemies from Sticker Star, and generic Toads. Every enemy or character is copied from Super Mario, Sticker Star, or even Super Mario 3D World. Even the bosses and Papercraft bosses are basically the classic enemies in the Super Mario series!

Seriously, this is really worrisome to long-time fans like me. This feels like it's just going to be a cheap crossover that adds nothing new to the series, just basically the same thing again. And of course, Princess Peach kidnapped again! When are they ever going to stop making her being kidnapped? Probably never, following their logic. Why don't they just make her playable in the M&L series for once? Trust me, it's a perfect idea! I don't care what anyone says.

tl;dr: I'm not excited for Paper Jam because there doesn't seem to be anything NEW to it, it seems to add fuck all, compared to the other games. Not Sticker Star. You know what Nintendo needs to do? Make Peach playable for once in an RPG, for crying out loud! Bowser got this treatment, why should Peach be any different?

Anyways, there you have it. That is why I am not excited for Paper Jam. I could be wrong, and they could have something big planned, but my expectations are LOW, as of now. I'm still getting it, to see how good or bad this game is.

Now then, are you hyped for Paper Jam, or are you not? Why or why not?
Just so you know, I'm very active on the site anymore like I was before; I'm mainly on Discord now.
tbh i'd rather just have a sonic chronicles sequel
spm's story was pretty stupid honestly
Originally posted by Nameless
tbh i'd rather just have a hoshi wo miru hito sequel

HackPortsASM"Uploader"

Well for me I am curious to see how this plays out. The one thing that bugs is the fact that there doesn't seem to be a paper Luigi. Why not?

Quote
Make Peach playable for once in an RPG, for crying out loud!

smrpg

granted she's the last character you unlock but still
The idea has me excited, but I lost alot of hype because it seems to be only drawing from the sticker star side of paper mario.
I'm just really pissed they didn't just make a new Paper Mario for the Wii U. Especially with the story - I loved all the PM games, but suddenly saying that all 4 PM games took place in the Mario and Luigi RPG's universe is just sudden and, in my opinion, bad writing. Would the Star Spirits have realized this? Would the Shadow Queen have found out she lives in a book? Does this mean that in Super Paper Mario, when Count Block nearly succeeded in destroying the universe, a Void also appeared in the M&L universe? Would the corrupted Royal Sticker-wearing Bowser have escaped the book eventually? I say that the writers should've taken all of that into account. Maybe they hopefully did, and the game references the past PM villains or something, but I doubt it. Also, where the hell is the book containing the PM universe? If Luigi managed to find it, whoever "hid" it in the first place is a retard.

The gameplay? I never liked the M&L games. I tried Superstar Saga and Dream Team and I just gave up. The way I see it, they don't hold a single candle to any of the four PM games.
theres three paper mario games. one of them is just a different mario game that happens to be called paper mario
I think it's too early to tell whether or not this is going to be good.


Personally, BIT and Dream team tie for the best in the series for me, but who knows?
I will say, I am not looking forward to the papercraft battles, but they might just be fun after all. However, one of the biggest draws to any mario and luigi game is just how friggin ridiculous and hilarious they are. If the scene with the two bowsers in the trailer is a sign of anything, the whole paper-vs-3d thing is going to lend it's way to some hilarioua gags.

If super paper mario is to be considered canon, then the whole "paper-mario-is-a-book" thing kinda makes sense because it's already established the mario world is only one part of a multiverse.



Which makes it chilling to think - was the mainstream marioverse threatened by the void from super paper mario?
Well, I will admit that it does seem kind of unoriginal in some ways; the plot seems to be basically "Bowser kidnapped Peach" again, and the world themes are about as generic as they come (I saw a grass area, a desert area, a beach area, a forest area, an ice area, and Bowser's castle). And yes, Nintendo really seems to have their head up their butt lately when it comes to their fans. I don't know what's up with no Paper Luigi either. And I agree that Peach really needs to get more playable appearances. She was one of the best characters in the original Super Mario RPG, but she hasn't been playable in the Mario & Luigi series yet. I'd actually like to see her team up with Yoshi, who has gotten even less love in the series (being reduced to a number of generic NPCs that are usually unimportant). Also, the way things are going, it's looking like the Wii U won't get a Mario RPG at all (the only non-8-bit Nintendo console or handheld not to have one), which kind of sucks. I really wished they'd made a real Super Mario RPG sequel for it, but even another Paper Mario game would have at least been something.

Still, though...I still plan to get it at full price ASAP. I have yet to play a bad Mario & Luigi game, and even the worst one was still better than the best Paper Mario game in my opinion. And hey, it's the first Mario RPG since the original that lets you have 3 simultaneously playable characters, and the music seems decent enough so far. And they got rid of those wretched giant battles, unless the Papercraft ones are even more annoying. For that matter, I haven't seen anything controlled by motion controls or the touchscreen yet.

----------------

I'm working on a hack! Check it out here. Progress: 64/95 levels.
I was surprised by the announcement, but the more I saw the more I lost hype.

- The game is pretty much just Mario and Luigi 5: guest star Paper Mario. After Dream Team, I don't think this will be any major improvement besides cutting down tutorials.
- The paper Mario side seems to be mostly based on Sticker Star and there seems to be no major characters from the Paper Mario series in general, just Sticker Star's generic NPC nameless toads.
- Papercraft bosses seem pretty lame.
- Mostly reused animations from Dream Team for Mario, Luigi and other characters.
- This also means mostly reused assets from Both Sticker Star and Dream Team.
- Framerate still 30fps. So animations won't look as great as the first 3 M&L games.
- Boring battle music for normal and boss battles. Heard the m&l:ss battle theme in but must've been for tutorials or early battles.
- Paper Toad collecting fetch quests seem like pointless filler.
- Starlow returns.

Overall I just don't have any hope for the Mario RPG series to be great again. I'd be surprised if this is better than any M&L game at all. Maybe Dream Team but that won't be hard to accomplish for them. I don't really mind the story, it never has been that great for the M&L games.

Paper Luigi might show up. Maybe as a (final or not) boss, like SPM did. Or just some NPC. Who knows, they can't just leave him out, right?

I just really want to see a good Paper Mario game again but Intelligent Systems seems to be too busy with Fire Emblem to care anymore!
Last I heard, Miyamoto despises the first 2-3 Paper Mario games, considering them to be almost as bad as the CDI games.
Let's milk Sunny Milk. Then she'll have enough money to fund Sunny Milk Real Estate.
Everypony's digging with a shovel
Originally posted by Wiimeiser
Last I heard, Miyamoto despises the first 2-3 Paper Mario games, considering them to be almost as bad as the CDI games.


#smw{>:(} Are you fucking serious? The first 3 games were amazing. Especially TTYD. Though where exactly did hear him say that?

Originally posted by slakkmichael
Well for me I am curious to see how this plays out. The one thing that bugs is the fact that there doesn't seem to be a paper Luigi. Why not?


Because everyone hates him. I mean, he's been reduced down to a cameo in Sticker Star ever since his playable debut in Super Paper Mario in this series.

Originally posted by Sayuri
I'm just really pissed they didn't just make a new Paper Mario for the Wii U. Especially with the story - I loved all the PM games, but suddenly saying that all 4 PM games took place in the Mario and Luigi RPG's universe is just sudden and, in my opinion, bad writing. Would the Star Spirits have realized this? Would the Shadow Queen have found out she lives in a book? Does this mean that in Super Paper Mario, when Count Block nearly succeeded in destroying the universe, a Void also appeared in the M&L universe? Would the corrupted Royal Sticker-wearing Bowser have escaped the book eventually? I say that the writers should've taken all of that into account. Maybe they hopefully did, and the game references the past PM villains or something, but I doubt it. Also, where the hell is the book containing the PM universe? If Luigi managed to find it, whoever "hid" it in the first place is a retard.


This all the way. Seriously, can you imagine more out-of-place/bad writing? And a Paper Mario on the Wii U would have been spectacular! But NOOOOO, they HAD to focus on "more important" stuff...

Originally posted by imamelia
Well, I will admit that it does seem kind of unoriginal in some ways; the plot seems to be basically "Bowser kidnapped Peach" again, and the world themes are about as generic as they come (I saw a grass area, a desert area, a beach area, a forest area, an ice area, and Bowser's castle). And yes, Nintendo really seems to have their head up their butt lately when it comes to their fans. I don't know what's up with no Paper Luigi either. And I agree that Peach really needs to get more playable appearances. She was one of the best characters in the original Super Mario RPG, but she hasn't been playable in the Mario & Luigi series yet. I'd actually like to see her team up with Yoshi, who has gotten even less love in the series (being reduced to a number of generic NPCs that are usually unimportant). Also, the way things are going, it's looking like the Wii U won't get a Mario RPG at all (the only non-8-bit Nintendo console or handheld not to have one), which kind of sucks. I really wished they'd made a real Super Mario RPG sequel for it, but even another Paper Mario game would have at least been something.


Oh, wow! I never realized Yoshi got even less love than Peach in these series. I mean, what happened to our best little dinosaur? Other than that, I agree with you with this.

Originally posted by Quizler
The idea has me excited, but I lost alot of hype because it seems to be only drawing from the sticker star side of paper mario.


Originally posted by Bad luck man
I was surprised by the announcement, but the more I saw the more I lost hype.

- The game is pretty much just Mario and Luigi 5: guest star Paper Mario. After Dream Team, I don't think this will be any major improvement besides cutting down tutorials.
- The paper Mario side seems to be mostly based on Sticker Star and there seems to be no major characters from the Paper Mario series in general, just Sticker Star's generic NPC nameless toads.
- Papercraft bosses seem pretty lame.
- Mostly reused animations from Dream Team for Mario, Luigi and other characters.
- This also means mostly reused assets from Both Sticker Star and Dream Team.
- Framerate still 30fps. So animations won't look as great as the first 3 M&L games.
- Boring battle music for normal and boss battles. Heard the m&l:ss battle theme in but must've been for tutorials or early battles.
- Paper Toad collecting fetch quests seem like pointless filler.
- Starlow returns.

Overall I just don't have any hope for the Mario RPG series to be great again. I'd be surprised if this is better than any M&L game at all. Maybe Dream Team but that won't be hard to accomplish for them. I don't really mind the story, it never has been that great for the M&L games.

Paper Luigi might show up. Maybe as a (final or not) boss, like SPM did. Or just some NPC. Who knows, they can't just leave him out, right?

I just really want to see a good Paper Mario game again but Intelligent Systems seems to be too busy with Fire Emblem to care anymore!


Ugh, I agree with you guys completely. It's like Miyamoto came in and said the exact same phrases he did to make Sticker Star gameplay-only, and tainted this game as well.

"It's fine without a story, so do we really need one?"
"As much as possible, complete the game with only characters from the Super Mario series."

Originally posted by Wiimeiser
Last I heard, Miyamoto despises the first 2-3 Paper Mario games, considering them to be almost as bad as the CDI games.


Are you fucking kidding me?! I don't believe you! Prove that he did indeed say that!
Just so you know, I'm very active on the site anymore like I was before; I'm mainly on Discord now.
TTYD has a Yoshi companion, and the Yoshi Island is the best chapter in PM the first.
Your layout has been removed.
Originally posted by Falconpunch
Originally posted by slakkmichael
Well for me I am curious to see how this plays out. The one thing that bugs is the fact that there doesn't seem to be a paper Luigi. Why not?


Because everyone hates him. I mean, he's been reduced down to a cameo in Sticker Star ever since his playable debut in Super Paper Mario in this series.


Apparently.

Also, I don't mean to go off-topic but after playing BIS, I seriously would love if they made a Bowser Spin-off game. Seriously, he hasn't gotten one like at all. Luigi had one, Peach had one(sorta), and Yoshi had one but not Bowser.(unless there is one that I am missing.) I haven't really thought of what type of game it would be but still that would be awesome. Especially if they can execute it right.

Originally posted by leod
TTYD has a Yoshi companion, and the Yoshi Island is the best chapter in PM the first.

Yes, but he hasn't been playable in a Mario & Luigi game yet (and yet Bowser has).

----------------

I'm working on a hack! Check it out here. Progress: 64/95 levels.

Personally I'm not too excited about this one, because it looks too generic. I've never played any of the Paper Mario games besides Super Paper Mario (one of my favourite games of all time, by the way - I think it's just suffering from the same dislike that Banjo-Kazooie Nuts and Bolts has), but I have played Superstar Saga and Bowser's Inside Story. This one just looks too similar to them. Additionally, after finishing EarthBound, I've gone off turn-based RPGs almost completely, except for the occasional Pokémon. Maybe in a while, I'll show it a bit of love. For now though, I think I'll pass.

something is supposed to go here

Originally posted by Wiimeiser
Last I heard, Miyamoto despises the first 2-3 Paper Mario games, considering them to be almost as bad as the CDI games.


[citation needed]

Also, Nintendo pretends that the Mario/Zelda CDI games don't even exist.