Banner
Views: 853,024,165
Time:
22 users online: AnisSaouliBH, AyGaAlPa, BoingBoing, bsolt, CalHal, Dan Drigues, ExONightZ, GrayLuigi, Green Jerry, JDC, jesusgeuse,  MarioFanGamer,  Maxodex, Metballs, NathanWarford, Niko0902, PokerFace, Qwerty13x, Rilla Roo, Stunyboy, WesleyeLaisy, Zidan3 - Guests: 82 - Bots: 67 Users: 47,044 (2,524 active)
Latest: Jv341211
Tip: Don't put a coin over a question block. It will create an invisible solid block above the ? block if the block is hit first.Not logged in.
Using Layer 2 background?
Forum Index - SMW Hacking - SMW Hacking Discussion - Using Layer 2 background?
Pages: « 1 »
Before I get "leedle ur an n00bz0rz" in the replies I'll just make myself clear now: I know all backgrounds use Layer 2, I'm just horrible at making titles. Moving on...

Layer 2 is either a static background or a blank background (unless you use HDMA you scrub) to make way for interaction. I'm sure I'll get a few yesses and nos here, but has anyone utilized setting tiles to act like tile 25 with interactive Layer 2?

For example, you have some clouds in the background, rigbt? So you have the ground in Layer 1, you got some dirt, bushes, grass, all that good stuff, and then suddenly you run into a situation where you want to maybe put coins in front of something? It'd be a waste of processing (unless you have an SA-1 ROM) and ExGFX space if you had tiles mixing the coins with the green bush color in the background, and probably a little time-consuming too. So what do you do? You switch the level's mode to one that lets you interact with layer 2, and put coins in front of a bush in the back! You can even add more detailed and varied backgrounds with this. The catch? Well, you'll have to stick with 16 screens only.



Oh the agony of not having overly long levels to troll with. If you disagree with my sarcastic statement, watch this video, skip to 30:13, and tell me how long it takes to get to where the screenshot ends in the TAS. Now that you know it takes approximately 32 game seconds to get there in a TAS, imagine a fully-filled castle level or a Kaizo puzzle level instead of a grassland that's the exact same length. You're looking at about a whole minute of gameplay, but that's only with a TAS, possibly using glitches. If a human player is playing it blind they can take a LOT longer considering they're not going to make one-frame wall jumps or glitch through walls or do a credits warp or make pong and snake with arbitrary code.

The only two drawbacks I can think of is of course the 16-screen limit, (of 0F screens if you're a nerd) which isn't even bad as I explained, and the fact that generators that affect Layer 2 scrolling are also affected. So if you want spikes falling up and down and a bush with coins in front of it at the same time, you better learn how to use that ExAnimation. Other than that I've actually used this method a couple of times, and my backgrounds look pretty good, especially with an HDMA background to make it a bit more vibrant.

So what do you guys think? Are you convinced that you can make some better backgrounds or will you stick with regular backgrounds?
I'll stick with regular backgrounds. Besides, I hardly ever use vanilla graphics (except for sprites and global objects), and custom-building them like that doesn't usually work as well with other graphics. Though it's worth noting that if you don't want Layer 2 to interact at all but still want it to be non-repeating, you can use level mode 01 instead of 02, and in either case, you can still have a Layer 3 background image as well.

Interestingly, the SNES version of the original Super Mario Bros. actually does something similar to what you are, where the Layer 2 background is non-repeating, and at least some levels in SMB2 do it as well. (Oddly enough, SMB3 doesn't despite being the most complex game of the three...maybe that's actually why? They didn't have space for complicated backgrounds after all the other stuff?)
There's more cons then what you're saying.

* Layer level 2 backgrounds take up level map16 space
* They have to be assembled by hand, you can't use LM's import feature
* Takes longer to assemble than regular backgrounds, since you have to do an entire level's worth
* You can't have both non-interactive and interactive parts unless you set the scrolling to "constant"
* You have to be careful with entrances if scrolling is set to "variable".
* Can't use layer 3 tides
Originally posted by TRS
There's more cons then what you're saying.

* Layer level 2 backgrounds take up level map16 space
* They have to be assembled by hand, you can't use LM's import feature
* Takes longer to assemble than regular backgrounds, since you have to do an entire level's worth
* You can't have both non-interactive and interactive parts unless you set the scrolling to "constant"
* You have to be careful with entrances if scrolling is set to "variable".
* Can't use layer 3 tides

Not much of a problem since you'll only need a handful of tiles, even less of a problem with an 8MB ROM
Any custom background needs to be assembled by hand lol
Of course it'll take more effort but effort is what makes a hack great
You're right on this, but this just makes a second possibility for this kind of use for Layer 2
Of course, but that's only with interactive Layer 2, it's not problem if you use Layer 2 the way you pointed out earlier (where you set scrolling to constant)
I guess you're right with that lol
Originally posted by ThePat545
Not much of a problem since you'll only need a handful of tiles, even less of a problem with an 8MB ROM

But 8MB ROMs aren't supported by many tools and even some emulators and if the ROM runs with FastROM, you can forget it altogether. And the SA-1 won't help much because most tools aren't made for SA-1 format either (good, the first two MibiBytes are pretty much the same in SA-1 but most tools [including xkas and partly Asar*] can't access the rest), which is a bit complicated.

*xkas can't access these altogether and you while Asar is optimized for SA-1 it cannot find freespace in the larger area.

--------------------
Okay, my layout looks ugly.
Originally posted by ThePat545
Not much of a problem since you'll only need a handful of tiles, even less of a problem with an 8MB ROM


It's true that it's not much of a problem usually. But it is relevant in cases like large projects or collaboration hacks where map16 space is limited (VLDC9 had a half-page level map16 limit).

Also, expanding a ROM to 8 MB doesn't increase the amount of map16 space you have.

Originally posted by ThePat545
Any custom background needs to be assembled by hand lol


Yes, but not necessarily by you. Backgrounds submitted to the site are required to be already assembled. Ones already in SMW can be copied from another level.

If you make a level layer 2 background, you can't use those options. You have to assemble it by hand each time.

Originally posted by ThePat545
Of course, but that's only with interactive Layer 2, it's not problem if you use Layer 2 the way you pointed out earlier (where you set scrolling to constant)


Even if the background is non-interactive, there's the problem of "jumping" to a further section of the background if you enter the level from an entrance in the middle of the level if the scrolling is set to variable. Say I have a hill background that transitions into clouds, but I don't want the player to see the clouds in the background. I might want the clouds to show up around screen 0E of the level, but due to the scrolling, the actual background clouds might actually be put on, say, screen 07 (I don't know exactly how show "variable" is). I can't have an entrance placed after the start of the level because when the player enters through that entrance, the background screen will match up with the foreground screen because it hasn't scrolled yet, it's just rendering what's on that screen. If I have an entrance on screen 07, the player will see the clouds several screens before I want them to.

Of course, you can fix this by setting the scrolling to constant. But having a non-interactive background scroll at the same rate as the foreground is a pretty big negative in itself. You lose that parallax effect.
Pages: « 1 »
Forum Index - SMW Hacking - SMW Hacking Discussion - Using Layer 2 background?

The purpose of this site is not to distribute copyrighted material, but to honor one of our favourite games.

Copyright © 2005 - 2020 - SMW Central
Legal Information - Privacy Policy - Link To Us


Menu

Follow Us On

  • YouTube
  • Twitch
  • Twitter

Affiliates

  • Super Mario Bros. X Community
  • ROMhacking.net
  • Mario Fan Games Galaxy