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Why aren't incompatible SM64 hacks fixed for real hardware?
Forum Index - Non-SMW Hacking - Super Mario 64 Hacking - Why aren't incompatible SM64 hacks fixed for real hardware?
Pages: « 1 2 3 » Thread Closed
I'm new to the forums, so I apologise if this is a common topic (though I've not found it via the Search), but I am wondering why both new and old Super Mario 64 hacks are still incompatible with the N64. Apparently the problem has been known about for literally years, and since N64 flash cartridges are easily available now (such as the Everdrive 64 and 64Drive) then I'd have thought that the problem would have been fixed now.

The other hacks/mods I've tried, for games like Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, F-Zero X, etc, work fine on real hardware, but most SM64 mods seem to fail. I've heard that this is down to the SM64 editor being tested only on inaccurate emulators, but surely by now the editor could be fixed to create mods that run on the real machine?

It just seems such a shame that so many great mods won't run on genuine hardware, and that the only way to play them is on an inaccurate and often flaky emulator. I'd have thought that the creators of these mods (who give their time, talent, and effort for free) would want to make the results available to as large an audience as possible, and yet people like me (who prefer the actual console and a flash cartridge) are unable to play them.

I'm not criticising the people who make the mods, of course, I know they don't deliberately exclude people who use the original hardware, but it seems (to someone outside of the SM64 editing community) baffling that this situation still exists after all this time.

BTW, thanks to everyone for all of the mods, regardless. If the mods weren't good then I wouldn't be posting this as I wouldn't care that they weren't real N64 compatible. It's only because the mods seem so fantastic that the current situation is so infuriating.
Originally posted by Kerr Avon
I am wondering why both new and old Super Mario 64 hacks are still incompatible with the N64.

If you want all the technical reasons why SM64 hacks are not compatible with hardware, consult the SM64 Console Compatibility Thread

As far as the reasons those technical issues exist, SM64 hacking has been around for many more years than flash cartridges have readily been available and accurate emulation has been around, so when the hacking tools were first being developed, decisions were made with limited knowledge available. The current maintainer of the major hacking tools doesn't have much interested in console compatibility and keeps the source closed so others wishing to help with cause have to reverse what the tools are doing and make requests for fixes.

Originally posted by Kerr Avon
Apparently the problem has been known about for literally years, and since N64 flash cartridges are easily available now (such as the Everdrive 64 and 64Drive) then I'd have thought that the problem would have been fixed now.

What have you done to fix the problem?

Originally posted by Kerr Avon
I'd have thought that the creators of these mods (who give their time, talent, and effort for free) would want to make the results available to as large an audience as possible, and yet people like me (who prefer the actual console and a flash cartridge) are unable to play them.

I'm not criticising the people who make the mods, of course, I know they don't deliberately exclude people who use the original hardware, but it seems (to someone outside of the SM64 editing community) baffling that this situation still exists after all this time.

You'd have thought wrong, only a few hackers seem interested in the topic. Contrary to what you claim, you are literally criticizing the people who make the mods for lack of hardware compatibility.
Thanks for replying, though I don't know why you felt the need to ask "What have you done to fix the problem?", frankly, as nowhere have I given the impression that I have the skills or the knowledge to do so. Before I ask someone who knows anything about health (such as a doctor or pharmacist) how to cure myself of a cold, should I first have tried to develop my own cure? Or should I instead ask someone who knows more about the subject that I do?


Quote
You'd have thought wrong, only a few hackers seem interested in the topic. Contrary to what you claim, you are literally criticizing the people who make the mods for lack of hardware compatibility.


No, I'm asking WHY the problem exists and why seemingly no effort has been made to fix the problem. It was not meant as an attack on anyone, and I don't see how you could infer it to be such.

Anyway, thanks for answering.
There have been people trying to push this, but the actual people that have the ability to fix all the tools and code snippets don't seem very interested so you, the player, are gonna have to take it.

People get really defensive about their bad practices too for some reason (as you could probably tell in the hints of snark in queueRAM's response), the last time this was brought up everyone got their panties in such a bunch that the resulting thread had to be ended.


Originally posted by queueRAM
Originally posted by Kerr Avon
Apparently the problem has been known about for literally years, and since N64 flash cartridges are easily available now (such as the Everdrive 64 and 64Drive) then I'd have thought that the problem would have been fixed now.

What have you done to fix the problem?

That argument, if you want to call it that, just doesn't make any sense.
Kerr (and anyone else that would want to play games on a flashcart) is here to play good games, not to go through the years long process of learning and getting efficient enough at hacking this game to remake their own tools from scratch because the old ones are all closed source and kept incompatible, only to end up getting turned down by all the people making the hacks anyway because this would put more limitations on them.
And really, contrary to what you seem to think, it isn't only the people that bother to figure out where these hacks come from, register and write a post about it that are bummed out about them not being playable on hardware.
Hacks are played and enjoyed by far, far more people than you as the creator see and I'd wager there's a sizable portion with flashcarts out there (enough for those to be a viable product on the market!).

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Originally posted by Kerr Avon
I don't know why you felt the need to ask "What have you done to fix the problem?", frankly, as nowhere have I given the impression that I have the skills or the knowledge to do so. Before I ask someone who knows anything about health (such as a doctor or pharmacist) how to cure myself of a cold, should I first have tried to develop my own cure? Or should I instead ask someone who knows more about the subject that I do?

You should inquire about the situation, learn more about what colds are, etc. You probably shouldn't demand to know why a cure for the common cold doesn't exist yet.

Originally posted by Kerr Avon
I'm asking WHY the problem exists and why seemingly no effort has been made to fix the problem. It was not meant as an attack on anyone, and I don't see how you could infer it to be such.

It was probably the 4 paragraphs that all made the same criticizing statements and asked the same question. I'm probably in the wrong though since "no effort has been made to fix the problem". Did you happen to read through the Console Compatibility thread before responding?

Originally posted by leod
Originally posted by queueRAM
What have you done to fix the problem?

That argument, if you want to call it that, just doesn't make any sense.

I was taught that if you want something done right, you must do it yourself. Similarly, if someone else does something for you, complaining is not an option. If you feel it could be done better, you can certainly say something like "here is my idea on how this can be improved. is there any way i can help?" This is why i always try to encourage people to help by asking what they have done to help. I'm not saying they should help, but i want to make sure that they know help is always welcome :)
saying no effort has been put in isn't fair considering queueram promptly posted a link to the console compatibility thread, and if you take a look at it you'll see that a handful of people have actually taken some time to look into the issues, and some fixes are in development (e.g. a completely new rom extender and a new importer). it's understandable why one wouldnt naturally come across this thread though since navigating the sm64 section here is confusing. anyways i think some of the salt surrounding this topic comes from the fact that the discussion is framed in a way that implies the developers aren't allowed to have their own priorities. i would be surprised if any of the tool developers exclusively work on sm64 stuff.

also not everyone has an actual n64 let alone the willingness to invest in a $100+ flashcart for testing


This is the best post
Originally posted by queueRAM
Originally posted by Kerr Avon
I don't know why you felt the need to ask "What have you done to fix the problem?", frankly, as nowhere have I given the impression that I have the skills or the knowledge to do so. Before I ask someone who knows anything about health (such as a doctor or pharmacist) how to cure myself of a cold, should I first have tried to develop my own cure? Or should I instead ask someone who knows more about the subject that I do?


You should inquire about the situation, learn more about what colds are, etc. You probably shouldn't demand to know why a cure for the common cold doesn't exist yet.



No, I should ask someone who knows how to at least minimise the suffering and effects of a cold what they recommend I do to combat the cold. I've had colds in the past, and I have asked and bought medicine/tablets/etc to help me through them. I've not made any study on what the cold germs actually are, or how they attack my immune system, or how many millions of years old the basic cold virus template has existed in nature, etc. I don't need to learn anything other than what medicine is best applied to my (then) current situation.


Quote

Originally posted by Kerr Avon
I'm asking WHY the problem exists and why seemingly no effort has been made to fix the problem. It was not meant as an attack on anyone, and I don't see how you could infer it to be such.

It was probably the 4 paragraphs that all made the same criticizing statements and asked the same question. I'm probably in the wrong though since "no effort has been made to fix the problem". Did you happen to read through the Console Compatibility thread before responding?


I said SEEMINGLY no effort has been made, referring to the many threads I've seen on assemblergames, gamefaqs, shootersforever, and other forums, where I've seen so many threads about the non-compatiblity of SM64 hacks on real hardware, yet I've never seen one post about anyone trying to fix the editor itself.


Quote
Quote
Originally posted by queueRAM
What have you done to fix the problem?

That argument, if you want to call it that, just doesn't make any sense.

I was taught that if you want something done right, you must do it yourself.


So if you develop appendicitis, would you remove it yourself? Do you cut your own hair? Fix everything that fails in your house, including the electrics, the roof, the plumbing, etc? Or do you defer to people who know more about you on a given subject?


Quote

Similarly, if someone else does something for you, complaining is not an option.


Seriously? So if you go into hospital to have your appendix out, and they remove your leg by mistake, would you really not complain?

It's reasonable to complain when you see a legitimate reason. Very little would get fixed if people didn't draw attention to a problem. And an N64 hack that doesn't run on an N64 is cause for minor complaint. Not a major complaint, of course, as the hack's authors owe us nothing. But it's worth pointing out, anyway.

Now that I know that the problem is known and understood, then of course I have no reason to complain further. But it is still an undesirable situation, particularly for the many people like me who love the original console and would like to play the hacks on it.


Quote

If you feel it could be done better, you can certainly say something like "here is my idea on how this can be improved. is there any way i can help?" This is why i always try to encourage people to help by asking what they have done to help. I'm not saying they should help, but i want to make sure that they know help is always welcome :)


Fair enough, and thanks for the link on the current progress of fixing the hacks, it was very interesting.




Originally posted by shyguyhex
saying no effort has been put in isn't fair considering queueram promptly posted a link to the console compatibility thread, and if you take a look at it you'll see that a handful of people have actually taken some time to look into the issues, and some fixes are in development (e.g. a completely new rom extender and a new importer). it's understandable why one wouldnt naturally come across this thread though since navigating the sm64 section here is confusing. anyways i think some of the salt surrounding this topic comes from the fact that the discussion is framed in a way that implies the developers aren't allowed to have their own priorities. i would be surprised if any of the tool developers exclusively work on sm64 stuff.


I was referring to my experience before joining here (I joined here specifically to ask about the problem), and I specified the word "seemingly" as the problem is reported on many websites, but I don't recall seeing any mention in any of those discussions of any real attempt to fix the problem (bar one unofficial attempt by someone who I think had no knowledge or experience of MS64 hacking beforehand).

I certainly don't mean to denigrate the work of those who are trying to fix this problem, and I wish them all the luck in the world, of course.

Quote

also not everyone has an actual n64 let alone the willingness to invest in a $100+ flashcart for testing


True. And if someone is happy with N64 emulators, then that's great. But even if a hacker doesn't have a way to personally test his work on a real N64, then no doubt enough people with a real N64 + flash cartridge would be happy to test the hacks.
The Wii costs like $20 bucks, $5 for a flash cart. Don't expand so goddamn high and try injecting for testing. It isn't perfect but it's a fucking start. Thank you Kerr Avon for bringing attention to a subject that I've been trying to shill for a long time. That thread that spawned from my own one takes MONTHS for a damn update. It's essentially dead! I guarantee my post will make this thread closed. It's such a joke.

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Originally posted by aterraformer
The Wii costs like $20 bucks, $5 for a flash cart. Don't expand so goddamn high and try injecting for testing. It isn't perfect but it's a fucking start. Thank you Kerr Avon for bringing attention to a subject that I've been trying to shill for a long time. That thread that spawned from my own one takes MONTHS for a damn update. It's essentially dead! I guarantee my post will make this thread closed. It's such a joke.

Lol getting a flash cart (especially one like Everdrive 64) isn't $5.
It would be close to between $80-$100. Also, can you please calm down.






I meant flash CARD. SD Card. Sorry, my mistake. I really can't though, wish I could but seeing this subject ignored, seeing the snarky response AGAIN really triggers me 4real tho. I want Star Road repro card dammit!

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Originally posted by aterraformer
I meant flash CARD. SD Card. Sorry, my mistake. I really can't though, wish I could but seeing this subject ignored, seeing the snarky response AGAIN really triggers me 4real tho. I want Star Road repro card dammit!

The reason why the topic is 'ignored' is because not a whole lot has been done with this sort of thing. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see SM64 hacks working on console but unfortunetly not a whole significant amount of progress has been made, although I have seen some people getting it work but they haven't really made the process of doing it to any hack universally. (I'm just rambling at this point.)






aterraformer, i think you acting like a nutcase makes people want to work on it less

This is the best post
I'm just curious what I have to do to get through thick skulls

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Originally posted by aterraformer
I'm just curious what I have to do to get through thick skulls

Not being snarky about it would be a good first step.






Originally posted by aterraformer
I'm just curious what I have to do to get through thick skulls

why do you think being disrespectful and ungrateful towards the people looking into it is going to make a difference? why do you think they owe you anything?

Originally posted by aterraformer
That thread that spawned from my own one takes MONTHS for a damn update.

this is just baffling. i don't know how you are able to survive being this deluded and entitled. just because you made a thread inquiring about it once doesn't somehow make you the construction supervisor of sm64 compatibility. you aren't an authority figure in any way and no one owes you any work. if anything your bickering is just hindering progress. the reason it takes MONTHS to update is because people have busy lives and their own priorities like juggling other projects, working jobs, going to school - things i suspect you don't understand very well


This is the best post
aterraformer, quit being rude.
To be honest, not many people care about N64 compatibility. I'm sick of seeing you demanding it from everyone else. You obviously don't hack the game, so you wouldn't know how difficult N64 compatibility actually is. If you want it that much, how about do it yourself?
Nobody else wants it. It's possible to do 48mb but I'm not sure about 64. The only person with a "thick skull", is you.
Originally posted by shyguyhex
Originally posted by aterraformer
ea games

challenge everything

both y'all need to 𝒸𝒽𝒾𝓁𝓁

Originally posted by supermariosan100 BACKUP
If you want it that much, how about do it yourself?

we've already gone over this, someone wanting to just speedrun a hack on actual hardware probably doesn't want to completely recode almost every tool for sm64 from the ground up

Originally posted by supermariosan100 BACKUP
Nobody else wants it.

you evidently didn't notice the op is someone different :^)
I'm the only one being rude and snarky?! lol

Why are you spinning it like I'm acting entitled? This isn't just for me, this is for an entire community of people that would play these hacks if they ran on console. They may not be vocal on here but I know their opinion. This is for this community as well so outsiders could take this all way more seriously.

I understand people having a life outside of all this, I have one myself thank you very much (yet I'm the only rude one?) but if more people would focus on it, even just a little, it would get done. There are a lot of smart people in this community, it wouldn't take long if more than like 2-3 people did a thing. You guys still play the "do it yourself" card. And why should I? By the time I start from scratch and learn all this, it could be done for a long time. Why should any extra person be needed when you have all the manpower needed and more?

Really though, you guys are the last community behind the damn times and push back any hint of change. That's what gets me mad, how entitled you all thing you are to think this is okay and that no one cares.

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Originally posted by aterraformer
Why are you spinning it like I'm acting entitled? This isn't just for me, this is for an entire community of people that would play these hacks if they ran on console. They may not be vocal on here but I know their opinion. This is for this community as well so outsiders could take this all way more seriously.

How many people? I have myself only encountered two or three people who have asked for this. It's not worth putting the time and effort into updating all of our tools and figuring out how to run hacks on console, likely adding new limitations, to appease 3 people.

Originally posted by aterraformer
There are a lot of smart people in this community, it wouldn't take long if more than like 2-3 people did a thing. You guys still play the "do it yourself" card. And why should I? By the time I start from scratch and learn all this, it could be done for a long time. Why should any extra person be needed when you have all the manpower needed and more?

What if this manpower dosen't want to do this? Is constantly showing up demanding they work on it and throwing around insults going to change anything? It's going to make them want to work on it less.

Originally posted by aterraformer
Really though, you guys are the last community behind the damn times and push back any hint of change. That's what gets me mad, how entitled you all thing you are to think this is okay and that no one cares.

We aren't pushing back any hint of change, we are pushing back people like you coming in and demanding we all stop whatever we are working on so we can appease what you and 2 other people want. We are the entitled ones, you say? Please reflect on your own actions and try again.

But fear not, I have a solution!

Buy a USB N64 Controller.
Buy a CRT Computer Monitor.

Congrats all romhacks are now console compatible.

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2-3 who are actually registered on the site and actually said something about this issue. I could think of plenty examples of people thinking this is fucking stupid who have no relation with the community.

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Pages: « 1 2 3 » Thread Closed
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