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Why aren't incompatible SM64 hacks fixed for real hardware?
Forum Index - Non-SMW Hacking - Super Mario 64 Hacking - Why aren't incompatible SM64 hacks fixed for real hardware?
Pages: « 1 2 3 » Thread Closed
Originally posted by aterraformer
2-3 who are actually registered on the site and actually said something about this issue. I could think of plenty examples of people thinking this is fucking stupid who have no relation with the community.

Please, share!

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Originally posted by aterraformer
2-3 who are actually registered on the site and actually said something about this issue. I could think of plenty examples of people thinking this is fucking stupid who have no relation with the community.

Look, I'd love to see hacks work on console, but I understand that it's difficult and takes time, and people have lives to live as well. The fact that you have to resort to raging that no one is doing anything and saying we have "thick skulls" honestly just makes people not want to do this.






just because someone's being a jerk about something doesn't mean that they're necessarily wrong @milleniumluigi

Originally posted by MilleniumLuigi
It's not worth putting the time and effort into updating all of our tools and figuring out how to run hacks on console, likely adding new limitations

i'm curious. are these new limitations actually known, or is this just speculation?
Originally posted by MilleniumLuigi
Please, share!

Like, any speedrunning community for one. Must I really find specific examples? You must know by now how much having SMW hacks run on console has expanded THAT community. Plenty people who had no interest prior would have plenty if that was to ever happen.

Y'all are so quick to point out my "rage" but not much is ever said of the shitty responses from this actual community.

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i open mouth kissed a horse once
good to know kaze



Ya he's not wrong hardware compatibility is something that deserves attention.

However he's being absolutely horribly rude and obnoxious about it and has been warned about doing so multiple times, including earlier today. It doesn't matter if he has a point that doesn't justify the attitude.

edit: aterraformer gets a 24hr ban for refusing to drop the rude pushy attitude and continuing to just insult the community. Just because the thing you want isn't getting done that doesn't excuse this kind of behaviour.

and shitty kaze post is shitty. not his first offence by any means, 72hr ban.

after we die there is nothing
Originally posted by MercuryPenny
Originally posted by MilleniumLuigi
It's not worth putting the time and effort into updating all of our tools and figuring out how to run hacks on console, likely adding new limitations

i'm curious. are these new limitations actually known, or is this just speculation?

I'm not an expert by any measure, but as far as I can tell at least a few of the incompatibilities stem from doing stuff the N64 simply can't actually do. Kinda like the good old ZSNES SMW debacle, so there very likely would come limitations just from fixing this.
None that couldn't be worked around seeing how there are far more technically advanced games on the N64, but limitations nonetheless.

Of course, considering they chose to hack a SM64 game instead of making their own game in an engine that would support this, they should totally embrace these limitations, but that's where opinions seem to differ.



Also, dismissing these complaints as "nobody but 2-3 people wants this" is really stupid, because we all know for a fact that isn't true.
Just the fact that Vinesauce Vinny played SM64 hacks means there's bound to be at least a few thousand outside people playing these games just from that, of which at least a few dozen have flashcarts disappointed that they can't play this.
And that's just from that community alone (I chose that one because I know it's a thing in that one for a fact), there's plenty more.
If there weren't enough people buying SM64 flashcarts, those things wouldn't be sold, and people with flashcarts are pretty likely to look up some quality hacks at some point.

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I mean there has been progress made as you can see in The Console Compatibility thread. It is possible to get hacks running on console now. it takes work and it comes down to the hack authors choosing to put in that work. It's on tool developers to make something console compatible now but basically the option is available.

As for fixing old hacks, that won't happen. Most of them aren't made wiht console limitations in mind, even if you fix the incompatibilities they will run very slow because they use too many polygons. Lots of hacks don't even run fullspeed in mupen64plus because it's a bit more accurate than pj64. I doubt you'll be able to convince hack authors to rework their levels to fit within the constraints of the console. So don't expect to see old hacks running on console period unless the author decides to put in that effort. Even if there was some compatibility fixer tool you could run to make a hack work on hardware, there's no automatic way to make the changes you'd need to get it to actually run full speed.

aterraformer, Do you even know how difficult it is to make it run on real console?
You've spammed the place with your little "requests" that nobody wants to take the time and effort JUST to satisfy 1 or 2 people.
Originally posted by supermariosan100 BACKUP
aterraformer, Do you even know how difficult it is to make it run on real console?
You've spammed the place with your little "requests" that nobody wants to take the time and effort JUST to satisfy 1 or 2 people.

are you even reading any of the other posts in this thread, lol
Originally posted by MercuryPenny
Originally posted by supermariosan100 BACKUP
aterraformer, Do you even know how difficult it is to make it run on real console?
You've spammed the place with your little "requests" that nobody wants to take the time and effort JUST to satisfy 1 or 2 people.

are you even reading any of the other posts in this thread, lol


Nah, not really. Tbh. Hahaha.
Originally posted by supermariosan100 BACKUP
aterraformer, quit being rude.
To be honest, not many people care about N64 compatibility...


....Nobody else wants it.


Regardless of anything else, that isn't true. I and a few others want it, judging by the posts I've read on various forums. Then again, the actually figure of people who would want to play the hacks on a real console if they were available is probably pretty low, maybe not even four figures world-wide, maybe even significantly less than that. But some people do, and I remember a newspaper editor once saying that for every letter he got on a subject, he'd assume that 99 other people felt the same way but didn't bother writing.

No doubt lots of people who've never posted about it still wish that these mods were playable on real hardware, and equally there's no doubt that many people who've never heard of the hacks would, if they discovered them, love to play them on their real N64 hardware.




Originally posted by MilleniumLuigi

But fear not, I have a solution!

Buy a USB N64 Controller.
Buy a CRT Computer Monitor.

Congrats all romhacks are now console compatible.


Treating people like idiots is neither polite nor productive. We are all capable of making decisions ourselves, and the fact that we request real hardware comparability is down to us not being too keen on the present emulators.

You owe us nothing, and if you choose to make your hacks N64-incompatible, then that's fair enough, and we have no right to criticise you for it. But we are free to express our opinions, and it does seem to me to be much less than ideal to write hacks that only run on flawed, glitchy emulators, not only because the next-generation of N64 emulators won't be able to run the hacks (unless the authors or whoever deliberately 'break' the accuracy of these emulators), but also because there are still a number of hard core N64 gaming fans who use the real hardware. Not too many, no doubt, but then the number of gamers who use N64 emulators is no doubt not huge either.

Still, thanks everyone for answering my questions, and for debating the issue.
If the fix is available for new hacks already, then this should be now enforced. Simple. The rest go in legacy. There is no reason for there to be more broken hacks made if the issue has already been discovered. Depending on how tricky the fix is, I would be willing to attempt at older hacks. But I would need a very detailed tutorial thingy as I know nothing of hacking SM64.

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When we get to the point where that's reasonable yes that's probably what will happen. We aren't there though. We know how to do it but it's not very easy and the tools people use aren't supported by it. If we did that now we just wouldn't get any submissions. We aren't the be-all and end-all of sm64 hacking, we're not in a position where people will jump through hoops to get their hack approved. It just doesn't make sense for us to jump the gun on this, sorry.

And yeah as I said you can't really expect some of those older hacks to run at playable speed on n64 so its not really an easy process to convert. You'd need the authors permission as well. But basically you'd have to find a way to reduce the polygon count in a level that has the least possible impact on gameplay/visuals. You'd essentially have to downgrade the hack.

Its annoying how there is this ill idea in the smwc community that a rom hack should limited by the hardware its supposed to run on. I think people should just stop trying enforce their ideas on others. If people want to use mario 64's engine to make a fun game then what is your problem with that. Its not about making rom hacks for the n64, its about making a fun 3d mario game.

Aterraformer, maybe you are not compatible with the others. Why don't you fix that first?

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Trying to limit someones creativity is pretty stupid.

Listening to the one limiting your creativity is even more.
Originally posted by aterraformer
If the fix is available for new hacks already, then this should be now enforced.


No, we shouldn't force them to do something a certain way, as we don't have the right to dictate how someone else does something. But they should be aware that if their work is made to be compatible with real hardware then it would have a larger user base, and ideally this forum or another site could help test the hacks on real hardware, and report back the successes and failures.




Originally posted by Jesse
Its annoying how there is this ill idea in the smwc community that a rom hack should limited by the hardware its supposed to run on. I think people should just stop trying enforce their ideas on others. If people want to use mario 64's engine to make a fun game then what is your problem with that. Its not about making rom hacks for the n64, its about making a fun 3d mario game.



Yes and no. What you're saying is perfectly valid, but how often do you see a mod of Super Mario 64 that somewhere specifically states that it isn't intended to run on the real hardware because it requires more resources. A mod of SM64 that can't run on the N64 because it does more than the N64 can do would be absolutely fine, as long as it's understood that it's emulator only by choice of the author, due to technical limitations. But I can't remember offhand even once seeing a new mod released with a message/warning about this*, and instead I and anyone else who learns of the mod will expect the mod to work on an N64 since it's a mod of an N64 game.

I know almost nothing about SM64 mods, is there a classification for them, so that some mods are recognised as not needing more resources than a real N64 has, and other mods need more resources to support them (for their bigger worlds, or more enemies on-screen, etc)?



* I've seen messages saying "This mod won't work on a real N64", but it's never made clear that this is because a real N64 is too slow or too memory-poor to support it, so my natural inference (right or wrong) is that the mod would work on an N64 if only some sort of technical fix were applied.
Go make your own original game then, why bother hacking a thing if that's what you want? You hack for the limitations, pushing the limit. I find it hilarious how vile this community is yet I'm the one banned because I'm not a part of this section. Y'all are so narrow minded, it hurts. I fell into quicksand way too much last night cuz of input lag and eaten inputs uggh

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Pages: « 1 2 3 » Thread Closed
Forum Index - Non-SMW Hacking - Super Mario 64 Hacking - Why aren't incompatible SM64 hacks fixed for real hardware?

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