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american election thread
Forum Index - Donut Plains - General Discussion - american election thread
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Originally posted by ThePat545
Originally posted by Koopster
Originally posted by ThePat545
suicide!!!!1

Fine but maybe don't make fun of people feeling suicidal, this is some serious shit.

I'm talking about people saying Trump should commit suicide but I'll change it to make it more clear. Sorry about that. I get that it's a touchy and nasty subject to talk about.

Oh alright then, sorry for the misinterpretation!



Originally posted by ThePat545
I'm sorry but I feel like this is a circlejerk of 3 people saying "fuck trump ololol he shuld dreenk bleech!!!!1" Please at least give valid explanations for every time you say Trump is the next major evil, and don't just limit it to "he's a bigot" or "he grabbed her by the pussy"

I did, even though I shouldn't need to considering he shows it in almost every speech he holds.

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Your layout has been removed.
I just looked through that, and although you make many valid points, I want to politely debate a couple things that I personally disagreed with.

Originally posted by leod
Are you actually trying to say that giving the power position at hand to the person that is not just linked, but actually 100% consists of big business is the smart thing to do?


This could actually go two ways. On one hand, he could just be your friendly neighborhood corrupt businessman. On the other hand, he has the experience and knowledge to bring the U.S. out of its bad economy. We'll just have to wait and see if he's good or bad on that situation.

Originally posted by leod
Worth mentioning that the KKK (as in, the Ku Klux Klan) is vocally endorsing Trump as well, for reasons that should be very obvious to everyone. And he didn't seem to have a problem with it, nor with being grouped up with a bunch of high-profile white supremacists.


Well, the KKK likes breathing, should we all suffocate ourselves? Obviously this isn't such an extreme case like everyone suffocating, but trying to say a small group of 5000-8000 racist people somehow speak for the 59,590,470 people who voted for Trump is generalization.

Originally posted by leod
But you're aware that Donald Trump has had more than just one rape allegation thrown at him, right? One of those by his ex-wife and one of those by a 13-year old child? What makes those less believable in your eyes than the one you linked (which was not even comitted by Clinton herself, mind you)? Especially considering these came out long BEFORE he ran for president, thus making any possible political bias impossible, only making them more likely to be true?


Okay, so this is a VERY touchy subject that I myself don't like to talk about. But everyone is innocent until proven guilty in the court of law. None of us could say he's good or bad until he's in handcuffs or impeached. Especially since people have the balls to make allegations against relatively well-known on YouTube such as Bashur and Tobuscus, I'm sure people throw dirt on OTHER people they don't like.

Originally posted by leod
Especially considering the fact that Trump is very well known and despised for being a mysoginist maniac, including long before he ran for president and long, long before those tapes were released a month or so back?


But he's only well-known to be a sexist, not any of the other extreme things people have said. I can guarantee you if he never ran for president those tapes would not be as relevant as they are now and probably never leaked.

edit: I would like to point out that the law system IS very flawed and Trump very well could be what he's been accused of being, but we still can't say for sure.
Originally posted by leod
Originally posted by ThePat545
I'm sorry but I feel like this is a circlejerk of 3 people saying "fuck trump ololol he shuld dreenk bleech!!!!1" Please at least give valid explanations for every time you say Trump is the next major evil, and don't just limit it to "he's a bigot" or "he grabbed her by the pussy"

I did, even though I shouldn't need to considering he shows it in almost every speech he holds.

Reading through that, I'm not seeing many valid points here. Unless I missed something, your arguments were as follows.

· He's Big Business
You also mentioned this, but Hillary has lot's of money behind her, suspicious considering that she claims to want to raise taxes on the wealthy. Why would big business support something that would be detrimental to their key goal: making money? Hillary wants to remove tax loopholes which sounds all fine and dandy until you consider that the same loopholes that big businesses use to make even more money are the same ones that small businesses use just to stay afloat. While it comes down to economic theory on whether Trump's plans will work, Hillary's don't seem to make sense.

· Rape Allegations
Unless it can be proven in court, rape allegations simply have no weight. Anyone can say that they were raped by someone else, and as it stands, most that falsely accuse someone of rape get away with little more than a slap on the wrist, despite how detrimental it is to the accused person's image.

· KKK backs him
People love to spout this. The KKK endorsing him doesn't mean he endorses the KKK.

· Trump Quotes
Without context quotes hold little weight. This is especially true about someone like Trump, who doesn't have much of a filter. And that's not always a good thing, sure, but I prefer it to the way politicians usually speak in such a robotic precise way as if they're not even human. Trump's said some stupid shit, but everyone says stupid shit.

· Politi"facts"
Proven biased website. See how do link


Tower of Disarray

5/?? levels done
-HAHA Oh jeez-
An 'A' press is an 'A' press




Hella neat layout by Erik557
Originally posted by Wavee
if not him then his supporters will. trump is supported by kkk members and neo-nazi's and him getting elected is just another step in giving them more power over politics. even if he never does anything himself hes still enabling these kinds of people


The current KKK has 8,000 members (according to the higher estimates) and is really a bunch of unrelated groups that each decided to call themselves the KKK. There's no single, influential organization called the KKK and there really hasn't been since the 1940s.

Neo-nazis are even further on the fringe in the U.S. and are more fragmented than the KKK, with the largest group only having a few hundred members.

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Originally posted by Spinjumper
· Rape Allegations
Unless it can be proven in court, rape allegations simply have no weight. Anyone can say that they were raped by someone else, and as it stands, most that falsely accuse someone of rape get away with little more than a slap on the wrist, despite how detrimental it is to the accused person's image.

It's so effective at ruining a person's image that someone accused of rape just became president.
Are you trying to imply that the rape accusations didn't harm Trump's campaign, and that falsely accusing someone of rape isn't seriously harmful to them, despite numerous cases where it definitely has?

Tower of Disarray

5/?? levels done
-HAHA Oh jeez-
An 'A' press is an 'A' press




Hella neat layout by Erik557
wow i feel like this just opened my eyes to how many people on this website have nothing to lose and/or think this isn't going to affect them in some way. you keep thinking that.

I'm just throwing in that if you actually pay attention to the politifact thing and check the facts yourself, its not even slightly biased. The only biased thing is the claim that some how the republicans are persecuted when the things that are being checked as false on that image are literally false, by a much larger margin than the democratic examples lol. Politifact is entirely fair, that one image creator just picked a bunch of false republican statements, only slightly incorrect democratic statements, and slapped on a spurious and incorrect claim about politifact. That image is the thing lying to you, and you're being hoodwinked into thinking there is bias by easy manipulation tricks.


Also, as I've mentioned a lot of times, this guy has said "torture even if it doesn't work" "kill innocent people if they're family with a suspected terrorist" (this is insane, since terrorist suspects are most often reported by their families) and that he would "give Saudi Arabia nukes" (Saudi Arabia is literally a oppressive sharia law country lol), "wouldn't rule out using nukes on Europe" and that he respects several horrible dictators, including Kim jong un.

And if you think that's all just unfiltered stuff, just look at the crazy stuff on his political platform. Cutting 70% of regulations? Removing the department of education? Completely destroying environmental protections? Like, you guys are going to end up with smog and uninhabitable cities like china, with water like flint everywhere. Not to speak of the actual long term environmental effects of atmospheric pollution. Lastly, tax reductions on the wealthy is insane and trickle down economics has failed every single time in history. You're all just going to get squeezed tighter and tighter as less regulations, lower wages and lower social mobility ensure everything gets drained out of the public to go to the top and stay there.

And trust me. He "promises" things that seem beneficial, but not only has he taken both sides on nearly all of those issues, in my experience the right wing never delivers. We're still waiting for that brexit NHS funding that is never going to happen. We're still waiting for railway funding that is never going to happen. And, your house and senate are going to be 100% republican, and you can bet that those guys aren't going to pass ANYTHING that seems like a beneficial policy on trump's platform. They're just going to go to town butchering public services to pocket more money for themselves like politicians in the right wing's base always do. They'll probably pass some horrible intrusive shit into people's lives too, and repeal constitutional right protections. Banning porn is already something trump said is on the platform. Trump has said he wants to sue and silence the free press. You can insist this is all his "lack of a filter", but someone who wants to remove the freedom of the press when they're "unfiltered" doesn't seem like someone who is going to do good.
Ok I'm gonna abuse my double post powers to make two more points.

Originally posted by ThePat
On the other hand, he has the experience and knowledge to bring the U.S. out of its bad economy.


He does not. He's gone bankrupt countless times, and most of his business ventures are total failures. He's been deep in debt for years and hasn't managed to get out of it. He's only created more debt for himself, even when outright scamming people and hiring convicted con artists like with trump university. He definitely does not have the experience and knowledge to help the US out there.

Oh, and the US economy is *technically* great. Big businesses are successful, and Obama already cut the debt that George W Bush created in half. The real issue is local economies not having enough growth or jobs, as well as a loss of jobs in certain areas due to outsourcing. That and, a LACK of regulation in markets which causes boom bust cycles and shady practices which then completely crash the economy, at the public's expense and the wealthy's benefit.

Originally posted by ThePat
But he's only well-known to be a sexist


Isn't it kind of shocking that an entire country voted someone who is a well known sexist, yet alone a potential predator. Even if you disregard the rape allegations, a guy who goes around kissing and touching women without permission and using his position to watch women (and girls) get changed for his own gratification. That's a pretty creepy and nasty guy.
Originally posted by Spinjumper
· He's Big Business
You also mentioned this, but Hillary has lot's of money behind her, suspicious considering that she claims to want to raise taxes on the wealthy. Why would big business support something that would be detrimental to their key goal: making money? Hillary wants to remove tax loopholes which sounds all fine and dandy until you consider that the same loopholes that big businesses use to make even more money are the same ones that small businesses use just to stay afloat. While it comes down to economic theory on whether Trump's plans will work, Hillary's don't seem to make sense.

One of the presidential debates had the question guy flat out state that Trump's plan doesn't make any sense, is vague and the numbers don't match up.
I very highly doubt that a person in that position would claim anything that bad without having researched it through a ton of experts, so I'll take their word over yours here.
I'm not an economics expert nor do I actually care much about this, that part was just a rebuttal to the corruption argument (she's no doubt corrupt either way) while hiding behind people who definitely know more about this than all of us.
(Which, before you or anyone tries to claim that, doesn't make it any less valid of a point.)

And about that small businesses argument -- I don't believe that they have to rely on the same exact tricks that the big ones do, because those generally require a large amount of money or the ability to store shit elsewhere. If this is wrong, feel free to hook me up with sources.
And lastly, it's pretty obvious that they aren't stupid, they'd know this if it were true and find workarounds.



Originally posted by Spinjumper
· Rape Allegations
Unless it can be proven in court, rape allegations simply have no weight. Anyone can say that they were raped by someone else, and as it stands, most that falsely accuse someone of rape get away with little more than a slap on the wrist, despite how detrimental it is to the accused person's image.

Hey, that's the "let's dismiss literally every rape accusation and turn the alleged victims into definite assholes" argument you see all over YouTube all the time.
I'm not gonna give that any real response, because as my post you read already stated, I believe that while the accused person shouldn't be immediately locked up, assuming in any way that the accuser is doing it to harm someone's image or to further their goals is straight up fucking evil.
If these accusations all surfaced with him running for president then sure, I could believe a political incentive, but fact of the matter is they didn't.
Not to mention, as Pat said, we will NEVER know the actual answer to this because rich people simply don't get locked up in America, they'll settle it out of court. That's how it worked for Hillary (according to the right), that's how it'll work for Trump.


Originally posted by Spinjumper
· KKK backs him
People love to spout this. The KKK endorsing him doesn't mean he endorses the KKK.

That wasn't really an argument as much as just to give some perspective on what kinds of people also agree with this candidate's views.
Also, people don't spout, they claim.


Originally posted by Spinjumper
· Trump Quotes
Without context quotes hold little weight. This is especially true about someone like Trump, who doesn't have much of a filter. And that's not always a good thing, sure, but I prefer it to the way politicians usually speak in such a robotic precise way as if they're not even human. Trump's said some stupid shit, but everyone says stupid shit.

You can click on all the quotes to get context.
And even then, the quotes hold plenty weight without it.
None of them are so vague that details are hidden or twisted by being shortened, he said all those things straight up.
"Everyone says stupid shit" is a 10/10 garbage defense too, because I didn't see Hillary or Bernie say anything anywhere close to as much stupid shit as he did, and most of the shit they said was only half as bad as the shit Trump said, on average (especially re: Bernie).
And even if they did, that doesn't make Trump saying it any better. That's kindergarten-tier logic.


Originally posted by Spinjumper
· Politi"facts"
Proven biased website. See how do link

Picking 10 or so examples that help your case is barely "proven biased", but I obviously can't verify every single claim they've made, so okay it's slightly skewed I guess?
I don't really see the problem in half of those ratings, there's only two I'd agree are pretty weird, the "Not by the official statistis" one and the "questionable comparison" one.
Cause in the former, by which verifiable statistics then? And the latter because the facts seem right enough, even if that really is a silly comparison.
Definitely not enough to flip both of those truth triangles upsidedown.
(Also can't believe that anyone would actually use that image as an argument considering it complains about the False on Cruz' first quote.)



That all being said, you seem to have completely missed the general point of Trump being a hateful asshole that shouldn't be put into any position of power, ESPECIALLY not with Pence who just takes all his bad views, adds a few and turns them up to eleven.
His presidency is not going to be helpful to anyone that isn't white and straight. Nobody ever seems to be able to produce good points about Trump either, at least none that don't boil down to memes.
Especially since I have literally no idea what it even is that people don't like about Hillary so much. She's your run-of-the-mill politician and I've not heard anyone even try to claim otherwise from the right, it's so confusing to me (bar the "she's the devil incarnate, there's flies on her" Alex Jones people).






Originally posted by ThePat545
This could actually go two ways. On one hand, he could just be your friendly neighborhood corrupt businessman. On the other hand, he has the experience and knowledge to bring the U.S. out of its bad economy. We'll just have to wait and see if he's good or bad on that situation.

See my point above. I'd love it if he proved me wrong though, don't get me wrong. I'm already actually a bit pleasantly surprised at how... non-extreme and agreeable some of his recently proposed policies are.


Originally posted by ThePat
Well, the KKK likes breathing, should we all suffocate ourselves? Obviously this isn't such an extreme case like everyone suffocating, but trying to say a small group of 5000-8000 racist people somehow speak for the 59,590,470 people who voted for Trump is generalization.

This is just a really bad argument, the first part. False equivalency out the wazoo.
The second part, no, of course they aren't representative of all of America, but this basically sums it up coupled with the hundreds of posts I've seen of people (minorities) being afraid to go out, especially wearing their usual religious clothing.
Trump just is the candidate with the super strong racist support whether you want it or not, and for good reason, just him winning alone will and apparently already has caused a spike in hatecrimes, much like the ones surrounding Brexit.
Coupled with a dozen or so suicides already, most of which LGBT. And no Torchkas, those weren't magical gay martyrs planning to guilt trip all the poor Trump supporters.


Originally posted by ThePat
Okay, so this is a VERY touchy subject that I myself don't like to talk about. But everyone is innocent until proven guilty in the court of law. None of us could say he's good or bad until he's in handcuffs or impeached. Especially since people have the balls to make allegations against relatively well-known on YouTube such as Bashur and Tobuscus, I'm sure people throw dirt on OTHER people they don't like.

See response above. He'll never end up in handcuffs and nobody had much to gain from these, especially not a teenage girl.


Originally posted by ThePat
But he's only well-known to be a sexist, not any of the other extreme things people have said. I can guarantee you if he never ran for president those tapes would not be as relevant as they are now and probably never leaked.

Of course they wouldn't be leaked, just like how Hillary's emails wouldn't have been leaked.
And like, to be honest, nobody I know actually really cared about that tape, it showed nothing we didn't already know about him. The media sure loved it I guess.
Also trying to claim Trump isn't transphobic and racist as well is to ignore all of his past (in which he refused to house black families and used illegal immigrants as workforce only to then not pay them a penny), his fierce hatred of latinxs, the fact that he himself said that he does not believe trans people should be allowed to use the proper bathrooms (sadly, this is still the only mainstream discourse about trans people, as stupid as it is) and the fact that Pence is his chosen VP.

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Your layout has been removed.
Originally posted by leod
One of the presidential debates had the question guy flat out state that Trump's plan doesn't make any sense, is vague and the numbers don't match up.
I very highly doubt that a person in that position would claim anything that bad without having researched it through a ton of experts, so I'll take their word over yours here.
I'm not an economics expert nor do I actually care much about this, that part was just a rebuttal to the corruption argument (she's no doubt corrupt either way) while hiding behind people who definitely know more about this than all of us.
(Which, before you or anyone tries to claim that, doesn't make it any less valid of a point.)

And about that small businesses argument -- I don't believe that they have to rely on the same exact tricks that the big ones do, because those generally require a large amount of money or the ability to store shit elsewhere. If this is wrong, feel free to hook me up with sources.
And lastly, it's pretty obvious that they aren't stupid, they'd know this if it were true and find workarounds.

Why does it matter that the moderator said his plan makes no sense. What really matters is why it doesn't make sense.

As far as small businesses, I'm going off what I've heard from small business owners, but I don't have any sources to back my claims up so I guess I can concede that point. Either way, a Hillary presidency couldn't be good for small businesses anyways because it means more Obamacare and raised minimum wage
Originally posted by leod
Hey, that's the "let's dismiss literally every rape accusation and turn the alleged victims into definite assholes" argument you see all over YouTube all the time.
I'm not gonna give that any real response, because as my post you read already stated, I believe that while the accused person shouldn't be immediately locked up, assuming in any way that the accuser is doing it to harm someone's image or to further their goals is straight up fucking evil.
If these accusations all surfaced with him running for president then sure, I could believe a political incentive, but fact of the matter is they didn't.
Not to mention, as Pat said, we will NEVER know the actual answer to this because rich people simply don't get locked up in America, they'll settle it out of court. That's how it worked for Hillary (according to the right), that's how it'll work for Trump.

It's not about assuming the accuser is falsifying claims, it's about not treating the accused as a rapist until it's been proven. Like you said, we can never be sure whether any of the claims against Trump are actually true, but unless they're proven, it's reasonable to assume they're not. This doesn't mean the accusers shouldn't be comforted or treated with respect.
Originally posted by leod
That wasn't really an argument as much as just to give some perspective on what kinds of people also agree with this candidate's views.
Also, people don't spout, they claim.

Just as radical right wing people support Trump, so do radical left wingers support Hillary.
Originally posted by leod
You can click on all the quotes to get context.
And even then, the quotes hold plenty weight without it.
None of them are so vague that details are hidden or twisted by being shortened, he said all those things straight up.
"Everyone says stupid shit" is a 10/10 garbage defense too, because I didn't see Hillary or Bernie say anything anywhere close to as much stupid shit as he did, and most of the shit they said was only half as bad as the shit Trump said, on average (especially re: Bernie).
And even if they did, that doesn't make Trump saying it any better. That's kindergarten-tier logic.

I think the problem is that career politicians like Hillary are very careful about what they say. Trump, on the other hand, conducts himself in an entirely different manner, something more "human". Because of that, he comes off as honest and relatable. Also consider that a lot of the quotes from your site are from before Trump started running for presidency. That doesn't excuse what he's said, I admit, but it goes to show how deep the media dug to make Trump look bad. A lot of anti-Trump arguments boiled down to "HE SAID MEAN STUFF".
Originally posted by leod
Picking 10 or so examples that help your case is barely "proven biased", but I obviously can't verify every single claim they've made, so okay it's slightly skewed I guess?
I don't really see the problem in half of those ratings, there's only two I'd agree are pretty weird, the "Not by the official statistis" one and the "questionable comparison" one.
Cause in the former, by which verifiable statistics then? And the latter because the facts seem right enough, even if that really is a silly comparison.
Definitely not enough to flip both of those truth triangles upsidedown.
(Also can't believe that anyone would actually use that image as an argument considering it complains about the False on Cruz' first quote.)

Yeah sorry, I was wrong to say that it's been proven, and my evidence was rather poor. Here's a study that shows conservatives are treated more harshly on the site
Originally posted by leod
That all being said, you seem to have completely missed the general point of Trump being a hateful asshole that shouldn't be put into any position of power, ESPECIALLY not with Pence who just takes all his bad views, adds a few and turns them up to eleven.
His presidency is not going to be helpful to anyone that isn't white and straight. Nobody ever seems to be able to produce good points about Trump either, at least none that don't boil down to memes.
Especially since I have literally no idea what it even is that people don't like about Hillary so much. She's your run-of-the-mill politician and I've not heard anyone even try to claim otherwise from the right, it's so confusing to me (bar the "she's the devil incarnate, there's flies on her" Alex Jones people).

How can you not see why people hate Hillary? She's the epitome of everything wrong with politics. She's blatantly corrupt. She's been involved in multiple scandals. She's dishonest. She's smug. She's backed by the establishment. She's more of the same shit that we've been dealing with for 8 years. People are tired of the career politicians that do everything they can to climb the ranks, so much so that they're willing to overlook the glaring flaws of Trump. Yeah, Trump kind of is an asshole but he has more charisma and energy then this election's pre-approved Walmart-brand mass-produced politician.


Tower of Disarray

5/?? levels done
-HAHA Oh jeez-
An 'A' press is an 'A' press




Hella neat layout by Erik557
All I can say is thank god it's not Hillary.
She is what is wrong with this country.

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________________________________________________________
Mario the Gaul
Originally posted by Spinjumper
Why does it matter that the moderator said his plan makes no sense. What really matters is why it doesn't make sense.

I said why (edit: as in, why it matters). They would never bring up that question and straight up say "your plan does not make sense" if they didn't double and triplecheck it with leading experts on the issue, so there is bound to be credibility to it, especially since I have not seen anyone complain about that question, which people DEFINITELY would've had it been wrong.
I don't know the why, but neither do you and I wouldn't understand any of it anyway so I'm not that eager to look it up. All I understand is that there's definitely something wrong with it, and you claiming that the fact that it's wrong somehow doesn't matter is just ???
Like, I'm leaving myself wide-open to be proven wrong, and as I said this is not a topic I'm all that passionate about so if it I was wrong, sure, cool, but so far there was no attempt at an argument for this.


Originally posted by Spinjumper
Just as radical right wing people support Trump, so do radical left wingers support Hillary.

The difference being that radical lefties spend their time writing angry posts on twitter and tumblr and get pelleted with rubber bullets during peaceful protests while radical righties spend their time infiltrating a government building fully armed, making demands and then shaking an officer's hand and getting off free.
Those are obviously extreme examples, but really, when was the last time anyone was scared of getting stalked and murdered by the black panthers or any similar group compared to right-wing ones?
I know wikipedia isn't exactly a top notch source, but all the other google results I could find for left-wing terrorism (and a lot of variations of the phrase) were sites like this, and well... I don't think you want me to take that seriously.
Meanwhile right-wing terrorism has been more lethal than radical islamic terrorism for the greater part of the past decade, according to this (peppered with sources). There's a reason people are scared.

It's worth mentioning that what America calls "left" is actually pretty center everywhere else in the world, even your radical left barely reaches the normal left here.


Originally posted by Spinjumper
I think the problem is that career politicians like Hillary are very careful about what they say. Trump, on the other hand, conducts himself in an entirely different manner, something more "human". Because of that, he comes off as honest and relatable. Also consider that a lot of the quotes from your site are from before Trump started running for presidency. That doesn't excuse what he's said, I admit, but it goes to show how deep the media dug to make Trump look bad. A lot of anti-Trump arguments boiled down to "HE SAID MEAN STUFF".

The quotes being from before the elections is only helping my point, it shows that he actually truly believes this shit. Being honest about shit is still just as shit. Being able to relate to honest, open shit says something about the people that can, if anything.
Also, we both know that what he's saying isn't "mean". Mean is eating someone's lunch and acting like it wasn't you, Trump is being discriminatory, which is a huge part of politics.
And the most powerful man in the country is not supossed to be that.
Sorry, but that is not an excuse for a single one of the 200 things on that list.
(Honestly kind of felt like you're just trolling at this point with that argument, of course people don't like Trump if he insults and in some cases demonizes them.)



Originally posted by Spinjumper
Yeah sorry, I was wrong to say that it's been proven, and my evidence was rather poor. Here's a study that shows conservatives are treated more harshly on the site

Read it (expected it to be longer by the scrollbar but the comments section is gigantic!).
And well, yes, that study does make the point that republican politicians featured do get the liar treatment rather often, BUT the entire thing not once gives any signs of actual bias, it says that there is a possible one that may or may not exist a few times (which of course it does, everything that compares two things has this potential), but it never gives any actual examples.
It mentions a lot that certain politicians on the right get put down as False more, but it doesn't go to show any of these decisions as false or puts them in contrast with similar statements from the left (as that rightwing propaganda image you posted tried to).
I realize that isn't the point it's trying to make, just making sure we all realize that even that study could not find any significant unfair judgement calls your earlier "source" tried to convince us all of.
Its actual point is that republican politicians more often have statements picked that are false, while the left gets away being proven right more often, which, if you think about it a little, literally proves nothing.
It could mean that Politifact leans left and cherrypicks statements as they see fit (although this would be hard for Trump vs Clinton specifically because the facts that need checking are often asked for by people during debates, for quick response), but it could also mean that republicans just lie more. We are back at square one, and all we figured out is that you tricked yourself with your first image.


Originally posted by Spinjumper
How can you not see why people hate Hillary? She's the epitome of everything wrong with politics. She's blatantly corrupt. She's been involved in multiple scandals. She's dishonest. She's smug. She's backed by the establishment. She's more of the same shit that we've been dealing with for 8 years. People are tired of the career politicians that do everything they can to climb the ranks, so much so that they're willing to overlook the glaring flaws of Trump. Yeah, Trump kind of is an asshole but he has more charisma and energy then this election's pre-approved Walmart-brand mass-produced politician.

Trump has been involved in multiple scandals, is (so far still) proven to be more dishonest, is smug as all get out (the right makes memes out of every single smug face he does, I've seen him be smug and dismissive a lot more than I've heard Hillary's weird quiet hiccupy laugh face), he is the establishment.
I can't say that he's corrupt because he literally isn't a politician, but I'm very sure he's going to put his own interests first, even if in roundabout ways.
And honestly, I don't see the problem with Obama. He cut your problems in half and paved the way to minority rights finally getting any kind of attention, as far as I'm concerned it's gucci more than it's not.

Then there are also all the things Impetus just listed and all the vile things he's said I've already posted a list to, all of which once again don't even cover his choice of goddamn fucking Pence. I have hope for Trump, but none for him.

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ugh im actually shocked at how many people here support trump like i was hoping yall would be better than that. but then again these are the same great minds that gave us pantsu productions 2 so what was i honestly even expecting

Originally posted by Super Cascade Advance DX
The current KKK has 8,000 members (according to the higher estimates) and is really a bunch of unrelated groups that each decided to call themselves the KKK. There's no single, influential organization called the KKK and there really hasn't been since the 1940s.

Neo-nazis are even further on the fringe in the U.S. and are more fragmented than the KKK, with the largest group only having a few hundred members.

i gave those as a basic summary of some of the people who support trump. hes going to validate a lot more hate groups than those 2, like the alt-right which is recent and still growing.

and quite honestly, even though there aren't that much who identify themselves as kkk members, there are still many people who hold basically the same beliefs since racism is something so heavily engraved in american culture and history

and yes trump being elected will give them power. like i said before far right politics have become more and more popular in western society over the last 10 or so years. like this is already happening. neo nazism in europe has been rising during those 10 years and its no coincidence.
To sum up all my views on this, I was woken up today from my dad, loudly slamming his hand down onto the table once he heard the results this morning. The next thing I heard was him, sounding the most disappointed I have ever heard him, slowly telling my mother "America has just willingly given up thirty years of progress to an orange bigot."

He doesn't even follow american politics.

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Later.
Originally posted by leod
The difference being that radical lefties spend their time writing angry posts on twitter and tumblr and get pelleted with rubber bullets during peaceful protests while radical righties spend their time infiltrating a government building fully armed, making demands and then shaking an officer's hand and getting off free.
Those are obviously extreme examples, but really, when was the last time anyone was scared of getting stalked and murdered by the black panthers or any similar group compared to right-wing ones?
I know wikipedia isn't exactly a top notch source, but all the other google results I could find for left-wing terrorism (and a lot of variations of the phrase) were sites like this, and well... I don't think you want me to take that seriously.
Meanwhile right-wing terrorism has been more lethal than radical islamic terrorism for the greater part of the past decade, according to this (peppered with sources). There's a reason people are scared.

It's worth mentioning that what America calls "left" is actually pretty center everywhere else in the world, even your radical left barely reaches the normal left here.

As far as I know, the radical right isn't any more or less violent than the left. Many of those "peaceful" protests aren't very peaceful at all, and there's quite a number of times where Trump supporters have been attacked whereas the opposite seemingly isn't true (going off the google results of (trump supporter attacked vs. hillary/clinton supporter attacked, feel free to provide evidence). Anyways, I think we can agree that radicals, no matter which side they're on are bad.
Originally posted by leod
Read it (expected it to be longer by the scrollbar but the comments section is gigantic!).
And well, yes, that study does make the point that republican politicians featured do get the liar treatment rather often, BUT the entire thing not once gives any signs of actual bias, it says that there is a possible one that may or may not exist a few times (which of course it does, everything that compares two things has this potential), but it never gives any actual examples.
It mentions a lot that certain politicians on the right get put down as False more, but it doesn't go to show any of these decisions as false or puts them in contrast with similar statements from the left (as that rightwing propaganda image you posted tried to).
I realize that isn't the point it's trying to make, just making sure we all realize that even that study could not find any significant unfair judgement calls your earlier "source" tried to convince us all of.
Its actual point is that republican politicians more often have statements picked that are false, while the left gets away being proven right more often, which, if you think about it a little, literally proves nothing.
It could mean that Politifact leans left and cherrypicks statements as they see fit (although this would be hard for Trump vs Clinton specifically because the facts that need checking are often asked for by people during debates, for quick response), but it could also mean that republicans just lie more. We are back at square one, and all we figured out is that you tricked yourself with your first image.

I've done a little more research on Politifact. It's run by the Tampa Bay Times which endorsed Hillary Clinton (second link). It all endorsed Obama (twice), Kerry, and Al Gore, as well as other Democrat presidents going farther back.

There's also an entire website dedicated to showing the bias of Politifact although I really can't vouch for the credibility of it seeing as they have their own biases. Might be worth digging through though. I couldn't find anything concrete enough though.
Originally posted by leod
Trump has been involved in multiple scandals, is (so far still) proven to be more dishonest, is smug as all get out (the right makes memes out of every single smug face he does, I've seen him be smug and dismissive a lot more than I've heard Hillary's weird quiet hiccupy laugh face), he is the establishment.
I can't say that he's corrupt because he literally isn't a politician, but I'm very sure he's going to put his own interests first, even if in roundabout ways.
And honestly, I don't see the problem with Obama. He cut your problems in half and paved the way to minority rights finally getting any kind of attention, as far as I'm concerned it's gucci more than it's not.

Which scandals exactly? Consider that there is a difference between a personal scandal (like rape accusations) and a political scandal (like Clintons').
I don't really know what to say about the smugness thing, because Trump is smug, but I guess it's like a different kind of smug? I know how stupid that sounds.
If Trump was the establishment, then why was the establishment doing everything it could to stop him from winning? Hillary had tons of big money behind her, and spent nearly twice as much on her campaign.
Originally posted by leod
Then there are also all the things Impetus just listed and all the vile things he's said I've already posted a list to, all of which once again don't even cover his choice of goddamn fucking Pence. I have hope for Trump, but none for him.

Despite everything I've said, fuck Pence. Pence is what Liberals think Trump is. The only reason I could think of for Trump to choose Pence as his VP is for life insurance.

It's funny, though. I was never really a huge Trump supporter. Hell, I don't even like him. Frankly, he's an asshole. Hillary, though, as I said before, is everything I hate about politics wrapped up in a nice bundle. And honestly I'm real tired of all these liberals crying about how Trump is literally Hitler and that the world's ending. I'm just waiting for things to stop being so weird. It's been one hell of a year.


Tower of Disarray

5/?? levels done
-HAHA Oh jeez-
An 'A' press is an 'A' press




Hella neat layout by Erik557
tl;dr guys holy crap
you opened a pandora's box, now you need to end it by giving swift blows with a tire iron

e: let me also add that pushing a candidate who is deeply flawed in an election where large swaths of the country (especially in the rust belt states) is in a mistrustful and populist mood will backfire spectacularly. when you lose against a cheetoh-faced balloon animal with quasi-fascist tendencies for president, you have nothing blame but yourself.
Originally posted by Skewer
In a way, the above isn't an insult; it's generalized and more like an open opinion, and therefore is allowed.

Originally posted by SMWC
Site-Wide General Behavior Rules and Guidelines

General Behavior:

1. Do not flame, troll, or make any post that proposes or projects hate onto any user or group of people.

???

are we just throwing the rules out now? can i have a fully nsfw avatar?

Originally posted by Wavee
ugh im actually shocked at how many people here support trump like i was hoping yall would be better than that. but then again these are the same great minds that gave us pantsu productions 2 so what was i honestly even expecting

sorry
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