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american election thread
Forum Index - Donut Plains - General Discussion - american election thread
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Originally posted by Wavee

meanwhile in the real world:

But that's a Facebook post?
You do realize people post fake stories on Facebook all the time to push political views or to get sympathy or for attention.

But let's give it the benefit of the doubt.
Those people in the story are assholes.
Assholes will always exist.
Your side has assholes.
My side has assholes.
Everyone has assholes.
It's a fact of life. It sucks, but it's ridiculous to blame anyone other than the assholes for being assholes.


Tower of Disarray

5/?? levels done
-HAHA Oh jeez-
An 'A' press is an 'A' press




Hella neat layout by Erik557
But it is alright for you to generalise liberals as "salty" and "overreacting" without removing any of those fears.

I don't support any generalisation, but you're being incredibly dishonest by not admitting that you're generalising too.
Originally posted by Spinjumper
You do realize people post fake stories on Facebook all the time to push political views or to get sympathy or for attention.

I've been reading stories of all sorts of bigotry in the past day, that includes ones with video footage. Truth be told that was just the latest one that popped in my feed. Regardless of the legitimacy of it I've seen enough to know that things like this are happening. I won't truely be able to prove if that one is real or not but the woman's responses seem to be genuine, not of suspicion. She'd be a pretty good liar otherwise.
I don't have too much to say. It's just hard to put into words how saddened I am. With all the things that will happen after January 20. I do not believe that Donald Trump will be a good president. Having a racist, sexist, xenophobic (, etc) bigot like him in such a high position of power is disheartening.

And the vice president-elect? What a backwards-ass fool, trying to work back on all of the progress that's been made, especially with LGBT rights. While I am LGBT I don't feel like I have any reason to be afraid of what's happening; er, what I mean, I don't think anything that happens will affect me personally, but for anyone who it will affect, I wish them the best of luck. This country is really in for a shitshow. Unless something like impeachment or assassination happens. But if anything, the latter is more likely. Either one, I welcome.
You don't want anyone assassinated. That will only make things worse.

Violence begot violence. I would rather not see that in the United States.

But I completely share your sentiment otherwise.
Let's face it, both Hillary and Trump were absolute pure shit and nobody wanted this election. But it happened and there's nothing we can do. But you know what? As horrible and despicable as him being bigoted is, who do you hate more? Trump or ISIS? ISIS literally shoots and blows innocent people up. Trump isn't going to go to war with Mexico or Syria just because he doesn't like people with darker skin. It's unconstitutional and he sure as hell knows this.

I'm sick and tired of my country being something else's bitch. Everyone looks at us like a joke because we've had ISIS killing innocent people on our own soil and we haven't done shit about it. North Korea is declaring war on us, and let's face it, they're not very respected by other countries either.

The American people obviously have spoken and made their choice, and while I can definitely agree Trump was not the optimal choice, we want progress NOW. For the past 8 years we've gotten nothing but all this bullshit and everyone is tired of all this bullshit. Obama's been way too lenient toward other nations and nobody takes us seriously. Now tell me I'm wrong. Even the Philippines, one of the dirt-shit poorest countries ever, have turned over to communism when they've been for America for so long.

Before you say, "America is too economically weak for war," I'll stomp that right now. There's 318.9 million people, most of which who will proudly die for their country if they're drafted and get their 6 weeks of the best training a military can offer. The only reason we don't that many soldiers is because we're not in a major war right now. On top of that, let's not forget how war, or more specifically in this case, World War II, brought America out of the Great Depression, the worst economic point in American history.

Sorry if you want to go at my neck for this but I felt something had to be said about Trump's less-than-horrible side and what exactly he's incapable of doing. Also everyone including mods is going complete apeshit.


also I can't wait to be called horrible things for that whole North Korea bit
Originally posted by Sayuri
Unless something like impeachment or assassination happens. But if anything, the latter is more likely. Either one, I welcome.

If anything happens to Trump, Pence takes over. It's a loss for everyone, not to mention that killing isn't exactly the moral highground (and would only lead to more violence as said above)

Originally posted by StrikeForcer
I wouldn't generalize Trump supporters as those hateful thugs you are reporting about. In fact the people mentioned that posed a genuine threat to victim in that post are the kinds of people we'd do our civic duty to report them to the police and let those people have their day in court. Nobody deserves to be treated like that, first and foremost, but I also want to highlight that it is intellectually dishonest to use that as a generalization of Trump supporters.

Nobody is generalizing, read the actual arguments surrounding that.
The people that do this are being validated and reassured that yes, the country agreed with their extreme views, so they're in the right to do this.
Even if not all Trump voters are bigots, Trump is a bigot and bigots will see his win as a win for their views.
There's actually been a plethora of articles and videos about this exact phenomenon the past few days, and the already happening spike in violence and threats is proof.



Originally posted by Spinjumper
As far as I know, the radical right isn't any more or less violent than the left. Many of those "peaceful" protests aren't very peaceful at all, and there's quite a number of times where Trump supporters have been attacked whereas the opposite seemingly isn't true (going off the google results of (trump supporter attacked vs. hillary/clinton supporter attacked, feel free to provide evidence). Anyways, I think we can agree that radicals, no matter which side they're on are bad.

Sure, both are bad and usually unrealistic, but acting like the far-right is not more physically dangerous when that's historically been the case in the west for the past few decades is just silly. And I only say "for the past few decades" because I honestly don't know much about ancient american history.



Originally posted by Spinjumper
I've done a little more research on Politifact. It's run by the Tampa Bay Times which endorsed Hillary Clinton (second link). It all endorsed Obama (twice), Kerry, and Al Gore, as well as other Democrat presidents going farther back.

There's also an entire website dedicated to showing the bias of Politifact although I really can't vouch for the credibility of it seeing as they have their own biases. Might be worth digging through though. I couldn't find anything concrete enough though.

Okay, but an associated newspaper endorsing candidates once again is hardly solid evidence for anything. It's once again an "I told you so" kind of hint, that does nothing by itself but could be brought up when it turns out to be true to make someone seem smart. (Not saying that's bad, just that it holds no weight.)
Even so, the site actually outlines how it determines ratings and how it determines what to check, which boils down to "whatever people are asking about" and "whatever contains facts that should be checked to verify a statement built on them".
I don't think you can really skew these enough to get completely flipped results for Trump and Clinton specifically, keeping in mind that the conclusions they came to on all the actually checked statements don't seem to be wrong.
The only republican that vocally was against the fact checkers during this entire election was Trump, and he's very well known to try and insult and debase his critics as much as he can (see also scandal list below, or google for "trump sues critics").
He even sued newspapers for libel for reporting on his lies, bankruptcies and scams.


Originally posted by Spinjumper
Which scandals exactly? Consider that there is a difference between a personal scandal (like rape accusations) and a political scandal (like Clintons').
I don't really know what to say about the smugness thing, because Trump is smug, but I guess it's like a different kind of smug? I know how stupid that sounds.
If Trump was the establishment, then why was the establishment doing everything it could to stop him from winning? Hillary had tons of big money behind her, and spent nearly twice as much on her campaign.

Scandals. I wouldn't have listed all of these, but the ones I would've wanted to list are on this, so that's easier.

Not sure what you mean about the smugness being different, smug is when you laugh or otherwise act amused at someone else's claims and Trump is a real master at that.
Only times I've really seen Hillary do it much is against Trump, not in many debates or speeches before.
And who can fault someone for snickering at all the times Trump tries to weasel his way out of being told he's wrong by mumbling "no that's wrong, wrong wrong" into the mic.

About paying more: yeah, she's bought out and corrupt. My point is that people have an unreasonable trust in Trump not to work for his own corporation's gain, when he's literally employed scam artists for that goal in the past and has avoided paying taxes for decades, even bragging about it during a presidential election.


Originally posted by Spinjumper
It's funny, though. I was never really a huge Trump supporter. Hell, I don't even like him. Frankly, he's an asshole. Hillary, though, as I said before, is everything I hate about politics wrapped up in a nice bundle. And honestly I'm real tired of all these liberals crying about how Trump is literally Hitler and that the world's ending. I'm just waiting for things to stop being so weird. It's been one hell of a year.

I'm glad you put your being tired of people being scared above the lives of all the gay people that'll be forced to undergo conversion therapy under Pence (incredibly high suicide rate in this btw thanks to the completely medieval methods used) and whose marriage rights are going to be taken away (as Pence has already stated they're working on), all the illegal immigrants that are going to be deported with their families (Trump stated that even legal US citizens born to illegal immigrants will be deported) (and if they are let back in, that'll probably take for fucking ever thanks to the huge amount of 10+ million), all the women who aren't allowed to choose for themselves whether they want to or can even take care of a small human all the while not a single word on Trump's side was dropped regarding helping women in the job market, all the trans people that no doubt will experience a spike in the already ridiculously high violence rate against them thanks to their opponents getting validated by the bathroom bill being dug up and revoked and all the general xenophobia that's already spiking across america, to where even school children bully mexicans and muslims as terrorists and criminals just for being there.
Oh wow, could it be that those are a lot of the same people as the "liberals crying" and other people with actual empathy? Maybe because their world pretty much is ending?

Like I really don't have anything against republican policies that aren't related to any of this, but it's just fact that Trump comes packaged with all these things (and Pence comes packaged with Trump, who doubles down on all of these).




Originally posted by Pat
As horrible and despicable as him being bigoted is, who do you hate more? Trump or ISIS? ISIS literally shoots and blows innocent people up. Trump isn't going to go to war with Mexico or Syria just because he doesn't like people with darker skin. It's unconstitutional and he sure as hell knows this.

... What kind of argument is this? If Clinton were pro-ISIS I'd understand, but fact is she isn't, nobody was.

Originally posted by Pat
I'm sick and tired of my country being something else's bitch. Everyone looks at us like a joke because we've had ISIS killing innocent people on our own soil and we haven't done shit about it. North Korea is declaring war on us, and let's face it, they're not very respected by other countries either.

For what it's worth, all of europe was relieved when Obama won and the general sentiment over here right now is that your country is fucking crazy for even nominating Trump for this, let alone fucking voting and winning it for him.
Also fun-fact, ISIS isn't only in america. They actually happen to be in the middle east a lot! And in european countries, too!
I don't know where your sudden patriotism regarding that came from, but Trump isn't a magical ISIS cure, anyone that would've won the election would've done their best to stop ISIS.

I'm not saying Trump is a worse choice against ISIS, but trying to claim that the choice was between Trump and ISIS is fucking stupid and you know it.


Originally posted by Pat
The American people obviously have spoken and made their choice, and while I can definitely agree Trump was not the optimal choice, we want progress NOW. For the past 8 years we've gotten nothing but all this bullshit and everyone is tired of all this bullshit. Obama's been way too lenient toward other nations and nobody takes us seriously. Now tell me I'm wrong. Even the Philippines, one of the dirt-shit poorest countries ever, have turned over to communism when they've been for America for so long.

Technically, they haven't spoken. Clinton won the popular vote, more people would have wanted her.
The american election system being a pile of dung isn't news to anyone though I guess.

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Originally posted by leod
Originally posted by Pat
As horrible and despicable as him being bigoted is, who do you hate more? Trump or ISIS? ISIS literally shoots and blows innocent people up. Trump isn't going to go to war with Mexico or Syria just because he doesn't like people with darker skin. It's unconstitutional and he sure as hell knows this.

... What kind of argument is this? If Clinton were pro-ISIS I'd understand, but fact is she isn't, nobody was.

He's arguing that trump knows that what he says is unconstitutional
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Originally posted by M A R I O W O R L D
He's arguing that trump knows that what he says is unconstitutional

Precisely. ISIS is ruthless and will stop at nothing to kill, kill, kill.

On the other hand, just like all the other 44 presidents, Trump has limited power and can't go against the Constitution. He'd need Congress to vote on something extreme like going to war. So no, I don't think he'll cause nuclear warfare and make the planet explode.

Even with an executive order,

Originally posted by based Wikipedia
Like both legislative statutes and regulations promulgated by government agencies, executive orders are subject to judicial review, and may be struck down if deemed by the courts to be unsupported by statute or the Constitution.
Unfortunately we have to deal with mike pence if trump does get assasinated
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I was genuinely surprised that this happened.

Seriously, my family is genuinely considering moving to Canada right now. I honestly thought my parents were joking at first but now they've been looking at potential houses and even have already picked out a specific spot in Ontario they've got their sights set on. #ab{>_>}
Originally posted by K.T.B.
I was genuinely surprised that this happened.

Seriously, my family is genuinely considering moving to Canada right now. I honestly thought my parents were joking at first but now they've been looking at potential houses and even have already picked out a specific spot in Ontario we've got our sights set on. #ab{>_>}

Good luck with the potential move then.

Stay safe!

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ISIS is losing already, anyway, and literally any president would have fought against them (despite the fact the number of Americans affected by terrorism is incredibly tiny, smaller than most other causes of death and injury, sure, you don't want another tragedy to happen or a country controlled by those kinds of crazy people I get it).

Point is, Trump isn't needed to beat ISIS at all.

"He'd need Congress to vote on something extreme like going to war."

Bush didn't, and trump is basically bush combined with nixon if we're honest here lol.

You guys just kinda see trump as this imaginary figure who has not said or done all of the horrible things he's said and done. People are frightened of him because they hear the crazy things he says and they're smart enough to take it at face value. Your trust in him is based on assuming he doesn't mean half of those things, glossing over it, and ignoring his track record. Its like you kinda know less about him than those afraid of what he could do know about him.

Likewise, America already has the largest military in the world, and the largest economy. Like, when you guys are being told that America is losing or laughed at or looked down on, you're being fed lies. Granted, it seems real, but that's because the way the system is set up means none of that benefits you. Is trump going to fix that? He's been benefiting from it all his life too, and he's backed by a party that benefits from it and a political ideology that just wants to keep doing more of the same thing that stops those benefits coming to you: lowering taxes and regulations on the rich, cutting funding, etc. Do you think a guy who buys himself things with money people gave to his charity, for charity, is gonna suddenly be working for you guys? If he was philanthropic, maybe that charity money would have gone to people who needed it.

And when people DO think America is backwards, its because of things like how you guys have people dying all over your country because they're born in poor areas and can't afford healthcare, that kind of thing. But the republicans LOVE that, right?

Lastly you guys realize Trump really isn't going to know what he is doing in the presidential seat. Regardless of if you think its better that he's an outsider or not, he isn't experienced at all. Mike Pence is going to be calling a shittonne of the shots here. You're going to have to live with those calls too.

(oh and, before crying communism and free market @ the regulations. Remember. Free Markets are not endless monopolies, which is what the current market is essentially taking the form of more and more. nor is the free market "companies have the right to break the law, scam people and endanger them because free market". that's just breaking common sense laws.)
I honestly don't get how literally nobody thinks beating ISIS should be a top priority.

They came about because Obama withdrew troops out of Iraq all at once which let ISIS form with nobody watching them.

We need to hit them hard as soon as possible before we get screwed yet again by an inefficient president.

AHHAA OLOLL TRUMP ISS INEFEICENT CUZ HE RASIST AND HE GO BANKRUP HAHAHAHA INSERT WALL JOKE HERE
At this point I feel like you didn't even bother reading any posts, considering nobody said any of the things you're trying to claim we did.

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ISIS already is a top priority lol. That's the thing. Obama's already dealt with them and terorists, without doing another insane region destabilizing move like bush did. Bush ran the entire army into the wrong fucking country (yes, iraq had a shitty dictator, but unfortunately so do many places. having a shitty dictator does not make it a good idea to march in an occupy a country. that's just crazy. there are better ways to deal with it. and iraq was not behind 9/11 attacks and there are better methods of nuclear disarmament than taking over a country even if diplomacy fails. We have hackers and special operatives right? We have peaceful ways of dealing with these kinds of conflicts that don't cause colossal debt, loss of life, and even more of an unstable shitshow.). Bush sided with the people who became ISIS now, because he armed them as "rebel fighters" to begin with. Bush turned the region into even more of a shitshow than it already was. If you want to blame someone for ISIS forming, its bush for creating them in the first place, not for Obama pulling troops out of somewhere they had no business being in to begin with. What were you going to do, force iraq to become the next state of America?
so is this one of those "bush did 9/11" posts or

also

Originally posted by leod
At this point I feel like you didn't even bother reading any posts, considering nobody said any of the things you're trying to claim we did.


au contraire

Originally posted by ThePat545
Precisely. ISIS is ruthless and will stop at nothing to kill, kill, kill.

Originally posted by Impetus
ISIS is losing already, anyway

Originally posted by ThePat545
I honestly don't get how literally nobody thinks beating ISIS should be a top priority.
Still not convinced.
What Impetus said there and I already said twice was that beating ISIS would be a top priority no matter who is president.
America is and has been fighting them for quite a while, it's actively happening and every nominee offered a plan for it.

I REALLY don't understand what makes you think Trump is the only one that's going to beat them up.


And no that wasn't a Bush did 9/11 post Impetus made there because a) conspiracy theories are for Alex Jones b) what she said was fact, Bush did create ISIS, yes with the help of Hillary, and Obama has been fighting them for the past few years.
Unless you want to claim that Clinton somehow did this intentionally, I don't see your point.

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I never even implied Trump is the only one who could beat them up for one. Second, he's the only one who will because he's already elected president and nothing is going to change that. It just so happens he's the one who won't hesitate to kill ISIS if he's literally the DIABLO BLANCO DE MUERTE when everyone else is more afraid of the media than terrorists.

I'm not saying Trump is good, but if this butthole is going to be president and we can't change that, might as well accept it and not make it worse by doing these kinds of things. This is appalling and I'm personally hurt that so many people are burning the flag that stands for freedom, that millions of our soldiers were willing to die for and have died for.

If you don't at least acknowledge that I love my country for what it is no matter what, and that everyone else ought to as well, I don't think I can continue debating this subject, especially when it's so close to Veteran's Day of all days.
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