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american election thread
Forum Index - Donut Plains - General Discussion - american election thread
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Oh, I see where the misunderstanding happened.
This right here looked a lot like you were trying to claim that voting Hillary somehow equals putting Trump as worse than ISIS, you know, what with that being the entire topic here:
Originally posted by ThePat545
Let's face it, both Hillary and Trump were absolute pure shit and nobody wanted this election. But it happened and there's nothing we can do. But you know what? As horrible and despicable as him being bigoted is, who do you hate more? Trump or ISIS? ISIS literally shoots and blows innocent people up. Trump isn't going to go to war with Mexico or Syria just because he doesn't like people with darker skin. It's unconstitutional and he sure as hell knows this.

Re-reading the relevant points with that in mind I get what you mean now and it makes a whole lot more sense, even though I don't understand what makes you think protests (which is an important right in America that you really shouldn't be upset about if you like freedom so much) will somehow weaken the fight against ISIS.

And no, sorry, patriotism isn't exactly a thing that I as a german understand. Over here that shit's dangerous, we burned our fingers with that already. There's a reason the part of our anthem that says germany is the best country in the world (with the best beer!) is forbidden from being played.
Honestly seems more like brainless following of the government and glorification of the military more than anything, not to say that I don't respect the hell out of the lives given by your soldiers in the fight against evil.

That being said, they didn't give their lives for some stars and stripes, your country isn't literally inside those pieces of cotton. It's just a really good way to symbolize how done they are with your country's shit.
(To be honest I don't really understand how that's worse than waving around the confederate flag anyway, that's not even your flag?)

Your layout has been removed.
I can see how I've been hypocritical in how I said I didn't like protesting then going right back to talking about freedom. It's our first amendment to be given freedom of speech, and it's a big thing here. I can also see that there are certain things I could have worded better.

And given the context from how you've described how your country works, I can even further understand your point of view as well.

As for the Confederate flag thing, people over here hate that too. It's done mostly in the southern states to basically say "we don't care about how the Civil War ended, we still want slaves, yee-haw" but yeah nobody really likes them here either.

I think I've said all I've felt I wanted to say on this thread, but I wanted to say one more thing. I'd like to say sorry to everyone if I came off as a jerk at any point. I'm honestly not sure if I had offended anyone but if I did, I genuinely apologize.
I have personally made my peace with the results of the election. There isn't anything I could do, anyways, and I feel like words never lead to a change of the mindset of anyone, only actions do, making discussions about politics pretty much pointless in my opinion. I mean, how often have you experienced that after a heated discussion, one of two opposing parties has suddenly agreed with what the other party has said? In my experience, that doesn't happen. It usually takes some kind of major event (positive or negative, usually the latter) before significant changes of mindset happen. And really, these major events are all I'm afraid of.

I only want to say one more thing. As Germans, we have made our experiences with people like Trump, and so far they have always lead to bad times without exceptions. Just take a list of what Trump's goals are and compare them bullet point by bullet point with lists of what certain other people's goals were in the past. You'll be surprised how many perfect matchs you will find. Consindering this, I think it's all but justified to be more than just a little sceptical of Trump.

With that, I think I have said everything I had left to say.

Feel free to visit my website/blog - it's updated rarely, but it looks pretty cool!
I'm attempting to make peace with it, but it's confirmed one thing to me: American democracy is fundamentally broken and both the DNC and GOP have to go.

I'm going to concentrate on issues at home that will have a huge effect on me. I'll still care about people in the States, but there's nothing I can do about it. But I think there are things I can do for Brexit and other Irish issues rather than discussing them.

Whatever happens, we need to change our perspective and how to deal with things.
tbh it was like a 1℅ difference and the reason the results are like this is because most red states were like 40/60 whereas most blue states were like 80/20. I don't think it's a fundamentally broken system. It takes into account that states vary wildly in mindset and that these variations need to be taken into account despite differences in population densities. The system ensures that city-rich states won't fully determine the outcome and drive the smaller states to have essentially pointless voting power. You've got to remember that the US is a state-based system.

A system that ensures that Republicans in California will never have a voice and ensures that Democrats in Texas will never have a voice without a huge shift in demographics is fundamentally broken in this day and age. No other democracy, to my knowledge, is like this.

It's a terrible, anti-democratic system. I'm not just saying that because Trump won; if Clinton had lost the popular vote but still ended up winning that'd have been absolutely horrible and undemocratic.

It needs to change; that's clear. Neither the DNC or GOP are worthy political parties for power; they're both horribly corrupt, horribly govern and not representative for anyone who's under 45 years of age.

Voting reform and a changing of the American system should be a top priority. But I fear it will never be.
I definitely think it's worse than a parliamentary system, but it's not horribly broken. It's more meant as a representation of that particular state which takes in mind that different states have different mindsets because they're different groups of people. It's the trouble of having to rule such a large country with so many different cultures.

Originally posted by Torchkas
tbh it was like a 1℅ difference

But that just makes it even worse. More than half the population actually wanted the other candidate (well, at least half the voting population). In other words, more than half the population are getting a president they didn't want. Remember how the whole point of democracy was to give power to people who act on behalf of the population? Well, now the USA have a president that only acts on behalf of half the population, probably even less.

This is actually why "two thirds" elections exist, which only make the party the winner which gets at least two thirds of all the votes (sometimes forcing multiple parties to form a coalition so there can even be a two thirds majority at all). I feel like this is one of the best election systems possible with democracy, but it isn't used in many places.

Originally posted by Torchkas
The system ensures that city-rich states won't fully determine the outcome and drive the smaller states to have essentially pointless voting power. You've got to remember that the US is a state-based system.

Except they wouldn't really do that, anyways, as demonstrated quite well in this video (I feel like that was already posted here before?). Basically, cities alone don't have nearly the population to influence election results all by themselves.

Feel free to visit my website/blog - it's updated rarely, but it looks pretty cool!
Well if you really care about numbers it's a 0.4% difference and neither of them have the majority vote.

good article by cracked ironically

Originally posted by ThePat545
I'm sick and tired of my country being something else's bitch. Everyone looks at us like a joke because we've had ISIS killing innocent people on our own soil and we haven't done shit about it.

You are the only one who thinks that. Did you see the attacks in France and think "France is such a joke"? No one looks at a terrorist attack and thinks "The people who that happened to were weak". That's an incredibly strange thing to say.

Originally posted by ThePat545
Before you say, "America is too economically weak for war," I'll stomp that right now.

I wasn't even thinking about war. Why would I be thinking about war?

Originally posted by ThePat545
If you don't at least acknowledge that I love my country for what it is no matter what, and that everyone else ought to as well, I don't think I can continue debating this subject, especially when it's so close to Veteran's Day of all days.

I'll acknowledge that you do. It seems pretty obvious. That's just a terrible, terrible thing to do. You should never support anything or anyone unconditionally, and a country is only a good thing for as long as it promotes and supports the things that you want it to support. If you support the actions of your government for the sole fact that you were born in the geographical region they lay claim over, you are going to end up supporting terrible things. Rather than supporting your country, you should have certain ideals that you believe to be true and defensible, and you should support the ones trying to make them so. Blind allegiance is about the worst thing one can have.

Originally posted by The Courier
It needs to change; that's clear. Neither the DNC or GOP are worthy political parties for power; they're both horribly corrupt, horribly govern and not representative for anyone who's under 45 years of age.

Voting reform and a changing of the American system should be a top priority. But I fear it will never be.

Unfortunately, they make the rules, so we're not any time soon going to get a system where anyone with seriously differing views can actually be elected. It's why I don't really care about people who are elected, I just care about local laws and such. The people are stuck, but local laws can actually change, thanks to a helpful dose of cognitive dissonance.

Originally posted by Torchkas
I definitely think it's worse than a parliamentary system, but it's not horribly broken. It's more meant as a representation of that particular state which takes in mind that different states have different mindsets because they're different groups of people. It's the trouble of having to rule such a large country with so many different cultures.

It's pretty broken. Both the winner-take-all nature that the different states enforce as well as the first-past-the-post system work to mathematically limit the number of choices people have. Of course, just using popular vote is equally broken (More broken, perhaps?). Having instead a representative distribution of electors, elected in a run-off-vote system, would greatly increase the breadth of the political landscape, and more competition is pretty much always a good thing, while still allowing for the less populated areas to have some say in how things go.

Also: Just kinda get rid of the president? Doesn't make a ton of sense to me to concentrate that much power into one person, when the same function could be just as easily handled by a representative body that would more accurately reflect the will of the people, instead of just giving a big middle finger to 50% of the population every 4 years. Humans seem to be stuck on this idea of a single leader, and it's very strange to me.
President Trump: How & Why...

That video makes the valid point of "not everyone on the right is a bigot", but I feel like it kind of misses the point that Trump isn't really a normal republican candidate and his views should really not be considered valid when blaming the entire left.
The only left part I can agree with blaming is Clinton for forcing her way through the election with shady shit when she's clearly not who people wanted, other than that not really. The right are people too, not animals, obviously they're to "blame" for voting their candidate.

Your layout has been removed.
Yo wtf did you guys hear trump is running for president? he better not win smh
The point of that video and all the videos/essays/angry facebook rants like it is that they're trying to get people to realize that they spent so much time sticking their noses up at people willing to listen to Trump, calling them racist, sexist, homophobic, all that stuff, that in doing so they created a culture where Hillary's side was inaccessible to anybody that questioned her legitimacy. In the year leading up to this election, I haven't heard a single positive attribute that she could bring to this country. I tried turning to articles and television to help me understand, but they all just said the exact same thing, "well she's better than Trump!", without any sort of explanation as to why. I guess the idea was that being a racist sexist pig is worse than whatever she did to be under investigation by the FBI. In the year of 2016, a bigot president does not scare me, because we live in a world where nobody is going to let that shit fly. Hell these protests that have been happening have been to show the world that modern America does not stand for the hateful things Trump says and stands for. Fuck that guy, he doesn't speak for anybody but himself, and people are going to make damn sure that's understood.

and I mean yeah, of course lower to middle class people voted for Trump. He promised them economic growth, he said he would kick out illegal immigrants they perceive to be stealing their jobs. Do you think the single mother of 2 trying to feed her children on $1600 a month gives a flying fuck if Donald Trump makes an inappropriate remark? Hillary called them and everybody they associate with a deplorable. Like, just put yourself in their shoes. Who would you vote for, the person that shows no sympathy or respect to the situation you didn't choose to be in, the person that goes on TV and calls you and everybody you know "shockingly bad in quality"? Or the racist, sexist, overall dishonorable human being that still has your best interests in mind.
I had a long conversation about this topic, and I understand that yes Trump supporters are, inadvertently or not, supporting a racist/sexist/etc America by validating a man with racist/sexist/etc ideologies, but writing it off as bigots seizing their opportunity to gentrify America is a disgusting generalization we really don't need right now.
e:to clarify im not advocating for trump, in case that wasn't clear. my stance is reactionary to the fact he's in power, if he lost as he should've (to my main man Gary Johnson), then I wouldn't even feel obligated to talk about this. But since we have to deal with him, it just makes more sense to try to be positive about the whole situation. I genuinely believe that people will not stand for any of his hateful ideas or speeches.
(but while we're sharing videos,)

Running an almost completely negative campaign against a negative campaign that promised economic growth was never going to work. Hell, Clinton didn't even seem to try. She just expected it.

Fucking hell, I fucking hate Trump and believe he's going to screw everything up. Pence is a dangerous bigot and the Republicans are already showing they're gonna kiss his ass to hell and back. Sure, Trump might be saying that he's not going to keep some of his promises now, which considering many of them were awful. But we can't trust that, since he's flip-flopping all of the time. And honestly, I'm very, very concerned that if he doesn't keep these promises, than the angry Rust Belt is gonna get even angrier and go for a candidate that's even worse.

But ya know what, while I believe there is a significant portion of Trump supporters were bigots, not all of them were, especially the moderates. But Clinton couldn't get them because she was an idiot. She just was a completely idiot, and so were the DNC

I just, ah, fuck it. Fuck it all. Fuck the DNC and the GOP.

I hope to god the Berniecrats take control of the DNC and prepare for 2020.

I'm just, I'm not gonna let this type of shit over here.
Yeah, I think we can all agree, a lot of this was Hillary's fault whether you love her or hate her. If her campaign was not rigged against Bernie, things may be very, very different. But eh, I'm just repeating what's been said lol
Did you know that Hillary Clinton spent, at the very minimum (the only number I could find only covered August) 50 MILLION dollars on anti-Trump smear campaigns. Like, 50 million. For 1 month. I sincerely don't understand how somebody can be so fiscally disconnected to the real world that spending that much money on telling America that Donald Trump isn't a good role model for kids seems like a valid strategy to ANY capacity.
Like, 50 million dollars is a lot of money. 31% of Americans have to choose between food and medical care each month. Flint Michigan STILL DOESN'T HAVE CLEAN DRINKING WATER. But hey, at least now young girls know that Donald Trump thinks they're ugly. Because yeah, let's call the children of America ugly and pretend it was Trump that said it first. This election is going to go down in history as one of the greatest examples of flying too close to the sun and failing miserably. e: sorry, i was just thinking about this all day. My "uncle on facebook" joke was "jeez....and she wants to pretend she lives like a normal person? when i dont like somebody i usually just fart by their desk. if i had 50 million dollars to blow i dont think i could hate anybody LOL"

I think that Trump is smarter than you give him credit for. (I've been reading all about this shit) He tells a story in his book about how he was building a hotel in a random country, and that there were protesters at the building, and every time those protests were in the news the hotel had more reservations booked. Before it was even open the entire hotel was booked, with the only promotion coming from those news spots of people protesting him in anger. That's exactly what he's been doing this election. He goes on twitter, says some crazy shit, attends a few campaign rallies, says some crazy shit, and bam he's the top story of the night, round table discussions and all. During the preliminaries it was obviously in the media's best interest to report on these to showcase him as the clown he is, guaranteeing the easy win. Demonize everything he says, and then once he's the republican nominee drop him and focus on Clinton. Problem was, Trump was so crazy the media just couldn't ignore the shit he was saying, and had to report on him almost daily to reap that ad revenue baby. The fact that Trump was able to stay that consistently relevant for that long is at the very least impressive.

A good example of Trump being surprisingly smart was with his claims the polls were rigged. He causes a yuuge commotion over the polls being rigged against him if he loses, which causes anybody opposing him to assure him and everybody that the polls are perfect, not rigged, and if he loses it's fair and square. If he lost, then he could just go on, complain about rigged polls, and keep public interest. But instead he wins the electoral vote, despite losing the popular vote. This means everybody that was against him and assuring him that the polls were not rigged either have to acknowledge he won fair and square, or go back on what they said and assume the polls were rigged.

I mean if you said the polls were rigged just because the candidate you preferred lost you're a fucking moron and lost cause. It's practically fucking impossible to rig the United States election

(Obviously hobz you're an intelligent person and not a moron and you're just talking about what other people are saying, but if people were saying the polls were rigged against Clinton... they need a slap. And if they thought the polls were rigged against Trump, they also need a slap)

Calling the polls rigged just helped depress turnout in my opinion, he might have won the popular had he not.

Running a negative campaign based mostly on the fear of the other gun and well, fear in general, just depresses turnout and makes everyone goddamn cynical to the point where people were arguing who was worse rather than who was better.

I'm actually tempted to write up the rules of how to run a political campaign, go over to the States, and literally throw five million copies at DNC headquarters. Because I'm starting to suspect 99.9% of modern day politicians are MORONS who never studied their history and don't know how to win anything.

I'm well aware that makes me sound egotistical and I'll probably regret saying it, but christ, I feel at this point I could have run a much better campaign than Clinton by simply not fucking talking about Trump and instead talking about my own policies. Oh, and ya know, outright apologising for the email server at the start.
at this point my goal is to get Pence to admit he's a homophobe on camera. Really that's all I want

Yeah I just thought it was a really interesting tactic for him to use. All negative consequences aside, it was a very simple (hilariously arrogant) way for him to assure his victory in the eyes of the people that opposed him; the cherry on the sundae of doubt, if you will. After forcing the media to address the potential rigged election and assure the country that there's no possible way the election can be rigged, he wins, and it can almost be taken as an affirmation from his opponents that he earned it fair and square. Fucking brilliant.

and I mean, it isn't egotistical to assume you could beat Trump in a political election. It really doesn't seem like much of a feat lol

Just a big news right now, guys. You know that there's a petition for switching Trump ballots and electing Clinton as the new president of the US, I may confer. It's close to 4,500,000 so get ready to sign up for this.

I'm sure THAT will work.
Reporting for you for this year’s E3. Catch it on 6:00 PM PHT.
And so the Courier who had cheated death in the cemetery outside Goodsprings cheated death once again, and the Mojave wasteland was forever changed.
“Even if you personally are so dissatisfied with life that you want the world to end, surely the cruel reality is that it will continue on, unchanging. All the better for someone perfectly content, like me.”
Aya Shameimaru, Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
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