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[WAA] Waluigi Express
Forum Index - Sunken Ghost Ship - Old Contests & Events - The 10th Annual Vanilla Level Design Contest - [WAA] Waluigi Express
Pages: « 1 2 3 »
This reminded of Mario Gives Up 2's train level, right? Or maybe Wario Land's train levels?

Anywai, good stuff!
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This song is DOPE.
“Even if you personally are so dissatisfied with life that you want the world to end, surely the cruel reality is that it will continue on, unchanging. All the better for someone perfectly content, like me.”
Aya Shameimaru, Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Originally posted by allowiscous
If you really wanna be cool, you can throw the whole BG onto layer 3 so that you can use the fast scroll setting, then like put the sun on layer 2. Just a thought, it looks good!

I actually tried that once. It looked...alright. But the ground... The ground really suffered. Also I realized that it meant I couldn't have ANYTHING for a background for the first part of the level, since I have a message there... Yeah, I could keep that layer 2, but that would just make the differences stand out more.


<Adam> I feel like smwc is a prostitute now, because we put up a porn ad for money

Remember, people! Telepathy is a wooonderful magic!
Originally posted by Nimono
Originally posted by Gregor
May I make a bold suggestion?

-pic-

Something like this, perhaps?



I did it :3 but I do appreciate your suggestion, Gregor! ^_^

Looks a lot better now. :)
Layout by Erik557
Hi.
Wow, very impressive for an only vanilla contest! I have a suggestion, make the train tracks layer three and make it fast scrolling so it looks like the train is actually moving. Also, if you can find a way, make the train wheels look like they are spinning, I feel like it would look a lot better that way.

Edit: Oops, the level is layer 2 and 3. Ah well #tb{¬_¬}
Originally posted by WarFlare2
Wow, very impressive for an only vanilla contest! I have a suggestion, make the train tracks layer three and make it fast scrolling so it looks like the train is actually moving. Also, if you can find a way, make the train wheels look like they are spinning, I feel like it would look a lot better that way.

Edit: Oops, the level is layer 2 and 3. Ah well #tb{¬_¬}

Actually, they're already spinning. :P I just don't know how to make a gif of that from game footage, so it's not in any pics!


<Adam> I feel like smwc is a prostitute now, because we put up a porn ad for money

Remember, people! Telepathy is a wooonderful magic!
They're spinning? That's insane. Are they reskinned grinders? Or exanimation?
I need some opinions on what I have so far

It's not much at all, not even to the midpoint, but I'm genuinely unsure what enemies I should focus on, or even USE, and would like some advice based on what I've already made, and what seems more interesting. Level stops after the second interior section, which I should probably expand on anyway instead of making it a simple passage to the next section.


<Adam> I feel like smwc is a prostitute now, because we put up a porn ad for money

Remember, people! Telepathy is a wooonderful magic!
Seems like a nice level so far, Nimono! I would say those Diggin' and Pitchin' Chucks are a good enemy to base on for one, and Koopas are pretty much your average enemy, but they somewhat fit too, in my opinion. I'm not sure what other enemies you should/could use to give this a more "Western" theme, but I hope this helps. I can't wait to see what else you use!
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I would actually disagree, I found the level to be pretty boring, to be completely honest. Yet, the aesthetics are amazing! I wouldn't worry about the background because it's still really awesome what you've managed to make out of vanilla gfx. Have you tried using an invisible sprite C1? Even if the background isn't moving fast, the gfx in this level is really interesting. It's also cool how you used coal as a sort of gameplay gimmick as well!

Here's the problems with the level.. it's an autoscroller, which means you have to design your level accordingly, and so far it's just flat and boring. So I did a bit of testing, and switched the "slow" auto scroll to a medium auto scroll, and let me just say it's already way better. It helps the slow sections go by a lot faster, and just keeps the level interesting. I would really recommend switching it to medium auto scroll. Also, I would steer away from hiding blue kicking koopas in the coal, as it is already a really annoying enemy, and hiding it is even worse.

As for the enemies, I would say keep the diggin chucks, but if you're using the Mushroom sprite tileset, there's tons of unique setups that you can take advantage of. I would use the ground guided fuzzballs, the moving checkerboard platforms, and maybe some other sprite with tileset mixing. Use the rocks without the chucks, so you have to spinjump on them. Use tile 1f0 (even though everyone does it) to put floating rocks in the level, which Mario has to spinjump on. Since the level is autoscrolling, it has to be highly linear, which in this case I think the best option would be to concentrate on platforming. This means less safe places to stand, and using the floating checkerboard platforms, moving rock platforms, etc. to create a less static level and a constantly moving one, which keeps thinks interesting. For a level name "the train is late", I felt that the player should be more frantic and rushed. Not too rushed, but just enough that you're constantly interested and "on your toes".


-Have the message box tell players that the railings kill you. Also, this room is empty, which is fine, but the room prior to it was empty as well. It's a lot of emptiness in the beginning. I would maybe introduce a few gameplay elements? Perhaps the coal can be introduced here, as something that obstructs visuals? Well, on that topic...

The coal gimmick itself is iffy, and I think something more interesting can be done with it. That's really up for you to decide, but maybe you could concentrate on moles only popping out of coal? Do something more interesting with the coal at least. I would also find it interesting if the train was split into sections? Like, a boiler room with lava, where you have to hop from coal piece to coal piece without getting roasted by hopping flames or podoboos (in this case the "coal" would be the brown platform that floats in water). Also, maybe a dining section with koopas and chucks that are trying to enjoy a meal, but they get disrupted and try to kill you. It sounds tricky to make, but I feel like it's possible.


-This section is awful. It's not fun and it makes no sense... if you want to introduce the gimmick of Chuck throwing coal, I would do it in a safe environment. You can't simply throw the player into a chaotic situation and introduce a new gameplay element. I would introduce the coal-lobbing Chuck dude in a totally safe place, where you don't have a chance of getting hurt. I would greatly expand on the interior section as well, there needs to be a lot more stuff and, since it isn't autoscrolling, gives you the ability to switch from platforming to exploration-based design. This is important.. you don't have to design the entire level the same way, since you can switch from inside the train and outside.


-This dragon coin is way too easy to get, I would recommend making the dragon coins require at least some effort. Not too much, of course.

Anyways, I hope this helps. The atmosphere and aesthetics of this level are really phenomenal, and it needs equally level design to match, in order to be a top scorer and contender for the best world.
Okay, first off, the level's name is NOT "the train is late". I put that there as a joke while I try to figure out a name, I ALWAYS put jokes as temp names. Second, Fast BG Scroll doesn't work with autoscroll at all. I tried. They override each other. If Autoscroll activates first, Fast BG Scroll is ignored. If Fast BG Scroll is first, Autoscroll is ignored.

Originally posted by GbreezeSunset
Here's the problems with the level.. it's an autoscroller, which means you have to design your level accordingly, and so far it's just flat and boring. So I did a bit of testing, and switched the "slow" auto scroll to a medium auto scroll, and let me just say it's already way better. It helps the slow sections go by a lot faster, and just keeps the level interesting. I would really recommend switching it to medium auto scroll. Also, I would steer away from hiding blue kicking koopas in the coal, as it is already a really annoying enemy, and hiding it is even worse.

why does everyone assume the intention is to hide the koopas? you can still see the top halves of them... Shouldn't that be enough to be able to see them walking up to a shell???

as for the autoscroll... Yeah, medium makes it go faster. Also means the chucks are suddenly pointless, because they'll never be able to dig up their rocks in time. I prefer it as slow.

Quote
As for the enemies, I would say keep the diggin chucks, but if you're using the Mushroom sprite tileset, there's tons of unique setups that you can take advantage of. I would use the ground guided fuzzballs, the moving checkerboard platforms, and maybe some other sprite with tileset mixing. Use the rocks without the chucks, so you have to spinjump on them. Use tile 1f0 (even though everyone does it) to put floating rocks in the level, which Mario has to spinjump on. Since the level is autoscrolling, it has to be highly linear, which in this case I think the best option would be to concentrate on platforming. This means less safe places to stand, and using the floating checkerboard platforms, moving rock platforms, etc. to create a less static level and a constantly moving one, which keeps thinks interesting. For a level name "the train is late", I felt that the player should be more frantic and rushed. Not too rushed, but just enough that you're constantly interested and "on your toes".

While tile 1F0 seems tempting, a lot of people are using it, and I REALLY don't see how it could really fit my level. As for the Mushroom set, I just have that on because diggin' chuck's there. I'll probably change some other sprites in there, too, but mostly I'd actually like to focus it on Koopas. They're global sprites that have absolutely NO chance of conflicting with anything else I may want to use...

Quote

-Have the message box tell players that the railings kill you. Also, this room is empty, which is fine, but the room prior to it was empty as well. It's a lot of emptiness in the beginning. I would maybe introduce a few gameplay elements? Perhaps the coal can be introduced here, as something that obstructs visuals? Well, on that topic...

That message box DOES tell you the railings kill you. I don't know why it isn't. ...Oh, it's because of the stupid layer 3 background again. UGH. For some reason when I have that thing behind layer 2, it completely destroys the message boxes. Guess that section's not getting a pretty background, not that you'd see it normally...

Quote
The coal gimmick itself is iffy, and I think something more interesting can be done with it. That's really up for you to decide, but maybe you could concentrate on moles only popping out of coal?

I considered that, but I decided against it, I feel it's detrimental to the level overall. So I removed that mole

Quote
-This section is awful. It's not fun and it makes no sense... if you want to introduce the gimmick of Chuck throwing coal, I would do it in a safe environment. You can't simply throw the player into a chaotic situation and introduce a new gameplay element. I would introduce the coal-lobbing Chuck dude in a totally safe place, where you don't have a chance of getting hurt. I would greatly expand on the interior section as well, there needs to be a lot more stuff and, since it isn't autoscrolling, gives you the ability to switch from platforming to exploration-based design. This is important.. you don't have to design the entire level the same way, since you can switch from inside the train and outside.

It's just a temporary setup anyway while I figure out stuff. That area isn't even technically finished, I just wanted to know if my diggin' chuck setups were good and whether or not i should use them, use the pitchin chucks, or use both or neither.

Quote
-This dragon coin is way too easy to get, I would recommend making the dragon coins require at least some effort. Not too much, of course.

I don't really see a problem with one yoshi coin being easy to get. Not everything needs to be some kind of challenge.


<Adam> I feel like smwc is a prostitute now, because we put up a porn ad for money

Remember, people! Telepathy is a wooonderful magic!
Hmm.. I wasn't trying to be overly harsh on your level with my post. I know it's my opinion, but my opinion is that the level is kinda boring the way it is. Now if you simply wanted advice on what enemies to use? Sure, you can go ahead and use the diggin chucks and koopas. If your level is really only in the beta stages, than I apologize for assuming that what you had down was what you were going with. I'm just trying to give advice to improve the level.

Originally posted by Nimono
Okay, first off, the level's name is NOT "the train is late". I put that there as a joke while I try to figure out a name, I ALWAYS put jokes as temp names. Second, Fast BG Scroll doesn't work with autoscroll at all. I tried. They override each other. If Autoscroll activates first, Fast BG Scroll is ignored. If Fast BG Scroll is first, Autoscroll is ignored.


Well, I was unaware that your name was a joke.. but regardless, most train levels in actual video games are more quick and platforming based, and have a lot less waiting around than this level has. It's unfortunate that the Fast BG Scroll doesn't activate with auto scroll.. I would suggest putting the auto scroller a couple screens ahead, but that's always a bad idea because screen scrolling breaks the game, as you already know.

Yes, the diggin chucks would be pointless in medium autoscroller, meaning you would have to rely on the chuck's rocks themselves, which isn't such a bad thing. Also, while tile 1f0 is always overused, it will always fit in a level, no matter what. Chuck's rocks will hover over tile 1f0 and monty moles will also stick to them.. could be used for some interesting setups.

Yeah, the message box problem can be fixed pretty easily, just get rid of the window and the fancy background in that room.

While not everything has to be some sort of challenge, this level presents no challenge so far, except for that indoor section with the kicking koopas. I'm not being harsh because this level is bad, but because the idea has a ton of potential that can easily be tapped into..
Originally posted by GbreezeSunset
Hmm.. I wasn't trying to insult you with my post, I'm sorry if you took it that way. I know it's my opinion, but my opinion is that the level is kinda boring the way it is. Now if you simply wanted advice on what enemies to use? Sure, you can go ahead and use the diggin chucks and koopas. If your level is really only in the beta stages, than I apologize for assuming that what you had down was what you were going with. I'm just trying to give advice to improve the level.

Oh no no no, I wasn't insulted at all! If I came across like I was, I'm so sorry. I have a habit of being horrible with words...

Originally posted by Nimono
Well, I was unaware that your name was a joke.. but regardless, most train levels in actual video games are more quick and platforming based, and have a lot less waiting around than this level has. It's unfortunate that the Fast BG Scroll doesn't activate with auto scroll.. I would suggest putting the auto scroller a couple screens ahead, but that's always a bad idea because screen scrolling breaks the game, as you already know.

I can't even do that. They both override each other. If fast BG scroll is first tile-wise, the autoscroll will NEVER activate. Not even joking. It's really annoying that way! I can fake it by swapping layers 2 and 3, though. I just lose a few colors that way, and I'm not sure that's worth it...

Quote
Yes, the diggin chucks would be pointless in medium autoscroller, meaning you would have to rely on the chuck's rocks themselves, which isn't such a bad thing. Also, while tile 1f0 is always overused, it will always fit in a level, no matter what. Chuck's rocks will hover over tile 1f0 and monty moles will also stick to them.. could be used for some interesting setups.

I mean in terms of the kind of design I want to make, I don't think tile 1f0 would really work. I also kinda went in with the idea that I wouldn't use it for a level at all.

Quote
While not everything has to be some sort of challenge, this level presents no challenge so far, except for that indoor section with the kicking koopas. I'm not being harsh because this level is bad, but because the idea has a ton of potential that can easily be tapped into..

Like I said, I was just trying to get some suggestions on what to do with my enemies, so I'd know what to focus on and all that. I don't want my level to end up unfocused to where it's less enjoyable.


<Adam> I feel like smwc is a prostitute now, because we put up a porn ad for money

Remember, people! Telepathy is a wooonderful magic!
Oh it's okay :D

Hmm.. does it work if the auto scroll comes first and then fast BG scroll? You could begin autoscrolling immediately in an "indoor" type room so you can't see the background, then force the player to step on C1 to activate fast BG? How much worse does the BG look when later 2 and 3 are swapped?

Edit: so I tested it myself, it seems like no matter what, the original smw really didn't want auto scrolling and fast BG scroll to go together. I played the level again with fast BG scroll and it looks awesome, like the train is really speeding along. I know you would rather keep the auto scroll as well, but in my opinion, the level is still good without the auto scroller.

Also, I totally respect the decision to avoid 1f0 because at this point it's becoming overused and you don't want it to become gimmicky. I'm looking forward to whatever else you have planned for this level though! I'll give it a playthrough when you finish to give my input!
Originally posted by GbreezeSunset
How much worse does the BG look when later 2 and 3 are swapped?


Layer 2 front and rails, Layer 3 sun and gradient


Layer 3 front and rails, Layer 2 sun and gradient (missing cacti because I forgot to put them in and I'm still unsure if they even add anything to the background, and I don't think they do, alongside the other mountains because I completely forgot about them LOL OOPS)

Really not that different at all, I just lose colors on the rails, ground, and a SINGLE color for exactly 4 tiles on the rocks. Which looks weird, but I can't find a way around it, i need 4 colors for that tile but layer 3 only allows 3 :/ Anyway... This, I'm not sure is worth it. Yeah, I get a cooler effect, but I feel like the color loss kinda detracts from the background.

as for the autoscroll, literally the only reason I have it is because Wario Land 1. I wanted to emulate that feel.


<Adam> I feel like smwc is a prostitute now, because we put up a porn ad for money

Remember, people! Telepathy is a wooonderful magic!
I've hit a dilemma here. I really want to do an autoscroll, but I can't find one that really helps the level. two of them won't work at all unless the level is mode 02, so no background, and the one I like the most that offers the most variance, A-1...ends at screen 05. That's just too short.

What should I do? Should I try to make the level without an autoscroll, or keep designing with autoscroll in mind? If the latter, which one should I try out?


<Adam> I feel like smwc is a prostitute now, because we put up a porn ad for money

Remember, people! Telepathy is a wooonderful magic!
You could make the entire thing without autoscroll. Also, you could make the level half autoscroll, half not. Design the first half without autoscroll, shift in between going in and out of the train, second half has an autoscroll portion using A1. Either way, I think it would be cool to switch between inside and outside the train, and autoscrolling might hamper that.

You could switch between different types of auto scroll with the inside areas as buffers in between them, that could even become a gimmick. Also one of the special autoscrolls starts the screen scrolling backwards, then begins scrolling forwards after a certain number of screens, I can't remember which autoscroll generator it is though.
Originally posted by Nimono
I've hit a dilemma here. I really want to do an autoscroll, but I can't find one that really helps the level. two of them won't work at all unless the level is mode 02, so no background, and the one I like the most that offers the most variance, A-1...ends at screen 05. That's just too short.

What should I do? Should I try to make the level without an autoscroll, or keep designing with autoscroll in mind? If the latter, which one should I try out?

You could use A-1 and on screen 5 have a warp that leads to screen 6 on the same level and place a slow or medium autoscroll or make a sub level (this year's limit is like 7 so you can make a lot of sub levels) and place another A-1 autoscroll.

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I dig the aesthetics! For some reason it reminds me of Sonic CD (which is a good thing.) Not sure how you'd handle the autoscroll problem though.
Doin' a thing


<Adam> I feel like smwc is a prostitute now, because we put up a porn ad for money

Remember, people! Telepathy is a wooonderful magic!
I think there's something wrong... the third room is an autoscroller that leads to nothing, it's impossible to continue.
Edit: the door in the first chuck has "midpoint" enabled on the exit settings.

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