What I've read so far of this article is so bad, honestly. Like 33% attributing basic level design concepts that exist in all games to Nintendo, 33% acting as if the way things work in one level is the standard for the entire game and 33% the equivalent of where someone draws the Fibonacci spiral over an image regardless of how well it fits and goes "here, this proves its a masterpiece".
Not to mention the idea of reverse engineering design choices is a little egregious, basically your standard "author's intentions" messy stuff.
I did that because these contests devolve into absolute nonsense about the 'correct' way to make a good level.
No one is saying there's a "correct way to make a good level" outside of the NO AESTHETICS AND GOOD LEVEL DESIGN idiots, who no one takes seriously
Originally posted by Nocturn
The definition of vanilla in this contest is simply "does it fit the rules of the contest". Judging according to a different definition of vanilla is objectively incorrect.
Though I would like to note that he hasn't been letting that influence his scores. Please read this section of his post under "The 'Vanilla' Discussion":
Originally posted by DeputyBS
Aside from the (more major) technical and timing issues, it’s why I feel I might not be fit to judge this contest. I don’t really agree with the terms and I’ve found that my feelings for levels do not match the scores that I give them, since I would not rig the scores just to fit my opinion.
He notes that he has issues with the definition of vanilla but explicitly mentions that his scores do not match his opinions.
way to miss this post btw
Originally posted by jesus
Friend, I think you might lack some self awareness.
Same to ya
EDIT: My apologies if I insulted the JUMP crew with how the post was earlier before I edited it. I thought Anon was in the JUMP 1/2 crew (due to 1F8). Koopster informed me that he wasn't. You're not forced to forgive me, rest assured
Everyone has different opinions on what makes a good level. That's a good thing, it allows for variety. Variety that keeps things interesting and makes sure there is something for everyone out there. We should be celebrating our differences instead of putting people down. Most people work hard on their levels, and not everyone has to like every level or its design philosophy. Creativity is something that cannot and should not be dictated by someone else, or there is really no point left in creating.
Can we not turn this into a war? lol
Like we were just discussing and disagreeing with Deputy and this whole thing almost turned into a tirade against the JUMP community for having a different level design philosophies compared to others. And sorry Hobz and SNN if you feel that way towards us, even if we have helped quite a few people with their level design anyhow without shunning them.
(And I do agree that some things have been out of line i.e. some insults and the gambly night thing, both of which have been more regretful individual efforts).
I just wanna make good and fun levels man. And this thread doesn't really help anyone tbh (especially with that super deceitful title like what???)
And sorry Hobz [...] if you feel that way towards us
Nah. I mean, I did when I first started trying to take designing levels more seriously, but I've gotten more confident in myself and don't care as much any more. I was just trying to speak on behalf of the peeps that still feel like there isn't a place for them in the modern SMW hacking scene if they try to stick to more traditional designs. But really that's less your fault and more the fault of the
obscene number of bad/mediocre/boring traditional hacks on the site.
I love all the peeps on the JUMP1/2 team I've gotten the chance to talk to, actually. And I think it'd be a lot of fun to be a part of the team (except >discord)! It's just that the overall tone of the crew can come off as a little "do things our way or we aren't interested." Which is fair, I guess. There are definitely people like that on any side of this discussion. I guess it just feels different because you guys have solidified numbers and a reputation that's bigger then you? or something.
Anyways Noivern's right. Back to the topic at hand:
more like Deputy BCKPDL
For the love of everything that is good and holy can everyone just stop turning every single contest into a flame war? I can't go one day without seeing someone insult someone else and make a thread devolve into personal attacks. There is a very fine line between insults and criticism, and far too many times I see that line be crossed.
The point of these contests is for, spell it with me here, fun. Even VLDC9 and the Mad Scientist ASM contests weren't safe from drama, with one being over an aesthetic meme and the other over some code. If I cried every time lion told me my posts were shit I would be waterlogged. If I had a dollar for every time someone said my hacks look bad or mediocre, I would be a millionaire. But I don't flame them over it, I just take it as a green light to improve what I do instead of justifying everything I do constantly.
Level design and fun is subjective to everyone, and you can't please everyone. That's why we have multiple judges. That's why there are different genres of games. That's why this website exists in the first place: fun for everyone. Anon's hard levels are just fine as is, because that's called kaizo. Some people do enjoy his levels and you have to respect that. But at the same time, poking a little fun shouldn't turn the conversation into a flame war. I assure you some people enjoy Swissotel too. Even Deputy gave it a 58/100, which in hindsight is a lot better than just a 5/100 or even a DQ. So can y'all stop getting your titties in a twist? Please? I came here for ROMhacking and memes, not to get serious like this. The purpose of this site is not to distribute copyrighted material, but to honor one of our favourite games.
tl;dr I am sick and tired of these mofuckin' flame wars on this mofuckin' forum
And sorry Hobz and SNN if you feel that way towards us, even if we have helped quite a few people with their level design anyhow without shunning them.
just wanted to clear the air and state that I like all of you, I just think some of the group (read: not you, you're probably the more civil when it comes to feedback) needs to be a little less .. in your face about their design philosophies.