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Zombie Release?
Forum Index - Events - Super Mario World Central Production 2 Completion Project - SMWCP2 Archive - Zombie Release?
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Hey.

So, it's been 5+ years since this collaboration has started. There are many claims around 2/3 years ago that this collab was "near completion"... Many things have happened outside of the collab, from SNN and Lightvayne's drop in leadership to problems with ASM. I've played the latest baserom not too long ago, and I'm not going to lie, it's like walking in a project that is so close but so far from being finished. The last thing I've heard about this project is the todo list was released.... but where's the progress beyond that? I'd think the current leader would release a monthly progress report after posting it.

It's funny how perfect you had to be to get your own level submitted, and even after all the levels have been submitted which are all highly critiqued (to the point where even broken blocks from other coders are somehow your fault and you had to fix it), we still have problems with all the levels it seems. Infact, we have problems with not just the levels being outdated by today's standards, but with ASM, Music, and Graphics too. The project just can't be done unless everyone agrees that it's perfect... and if it's not, it'll never get released. So, I'm here, suggesting that rather then kicking a dead horse, we submit it as a zombie release with all the resources included so one day, maybe a different group could finish it instead of it and it's forum just sitting there with little to no progress for literal years. The last major thing that happened to the collab in my eyes was the credits, and that was back at 2012. Keep in mind I've been out of touch with the collaboration, but even from an outsider these issues still exist.

Tl;dr - I feel a zombie release is the most fitting option if there's any hope of this ever getting finished. A2MT actually got finished because of a zombie release, but that was only because of one person who compiled everything together. A zombie release may not guarantee completion, heck it may not even guarantee that the end result will be satisfying... but I think that's better than the project getting canceled or lost. After all, Lightvayne suggested it before me, and I personally agree at this point.
I can't say I disagree with this suggestion, honestly. Too much hard work and dedication was piled into this thing over the course of several years by a huge amount of users for it to just sit like this. Don't get me wrong—I'm not trying to force the blame on to anybody in particular—yet it's been a long time since there's been any notable work on this thing (that the public's seen, anyway). This is understandable, considering the nature of what's been "left to do" on this project.

Sure it'll suck to release the thing unfinished, but at least it'll be something.
It's still being worked on.

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Your layout has been removed.
there's just zero transparency outside of irc regarding smwcp2, like there has been for about 3 years
I'm actually curious as to what all is being actively worked on, or what's being worked on at all. It doesn't hurt for those who are working on this to post any kind of progress; it's on the people that are still working on this for keeping everybody else in the dark.

It will not hurt the IRC frequenters to post something here, you know, in the forum that was made for progress regarding this hack?
Originally posted by leod
It's still being worked on.

Figured that was the case to at least some degree, but like Skewer said it'd be nice to have some progress or updates posted somewhere that isn't the IRC channel.
Originally posted by Skewer
It will not hurt the IRC frequenters to post something here, you know, in the forum that was made for progress regarding this hack?

I actually agree with this statement highly; to the outsiders (such as myself who basically abandoned IRC for Discord), they would've thought this project was long gone and dead. It makes SMWC look bad with a forum that suggests that this website's biggest project looks like it's been dead for a long time. I know people who basically lost any hope on ever playing the full release of this game. What is this "hidden progress" we're now hearing about anyway? More importantly, is it progress that's actually moving the collaboration forward, as in, ASM fixes?

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Are you an ASM coder and want a boost on your Steam, Switch, PS4, or Xbox One accounts? Private Message me for details.
(I also offer SMW Custom Songs in exchange for ASM! I don't do ports though unless it's to remix.)

Want progress on 100 Rooms of Enemies: The Nightmare Edition? Go here to see.

Are you a sample porter and wanna help with 100 Rooms of Enemies: The Nightmare Edition? Private Message me or Mellonpizza for details. Expect trading or boosting in exchange. 6 more left.

I'm pretty sure progress isn't even posted on IRC. #smwcp is dead other than people asking for, you guessed it, progress; I haven't seen any other channel where progress is shared.

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I'm sure I'll find it
I don't think anything other than the hack's title suggests this is the site's biggest thing at this point. The VLDCs have been a much bigger focus for several years now (man it feels weird to say that, feels like 7 happened yesterday o.o). I personally barely ever remember about this hack anymore.

Don't release a zombie if it's still being worked on. One day, it's gonna come out. The hype is long gone and I don't see how releasing a zombie at this point is gonna make anything better.
I mean the github is and always has been public, anyone can contribute.
No clue where the link is though LOL

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Your layout has been removed.
Originally posted by Koopster
One day, it's gonna come out.

You know, it's this kind of mentality that has kept it in the state its in for a while now. If anything's being worked on, I hope it's what needs to be done, and not just graphics or music work that's been done: because if this sits for another 2 years or so, guess what's going to be reworked again, graphics and music.

The point is: what's being worked on? If the answer is anything progress-worthy at all: then are the people actively working on what needs to be worked on? Or at they just letting it sit in the back of their heads wondering "Gees, I hope nobody tells me to work on this sometime soon."

As far as contribution goes, I've contributed all I could, heck some of what I've contributed has been removed without my knowledge. I sure raised hell about that way back when. (By the way, I never saw any progress regarding that "appropriate and fun replacement" either.)
Originally posted by leod
I mean the github is and always has been public, anyone can contribute.
No clue where the link is though LOL


Actually a Bitbucket repository
that being said I'm not sure if that's updated either, I gave the solution to an issue a while ago and it's still there

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I'm sure I'll find it
Originally posted by Koopster
One day, it's gonna come out. The hype is long gone and I don't see how releasing a zombie at this point is gonna make anything better.

Isn't that the point of a zombie release? To get it out the way when everyone lost hope? There was no hype for when the zombie release of A2MT released, and nobody ever thought someone would fix it at all.

Originally posted by leod
No clue where the link is though LOL

If nobody has a clue where the "todo list" link is, then the leader failed to make it a highlight of the forum. The link should be in it's own dedicated thread where everyone knows to check out and look.

Originally posted by Erik557
I'm not sure if that's updated either

...this is just proving my point, isn't it? That it's been dead for weeks, if not months.

--------------------
Are you an ASM coder and want a boost on your Steam, Switch, PS4, or Xbox One accounts? Private Message me for details.
(I also offer SMW Custom Songs in exchange for ASM! I don't do ports though unless it's to remix.)

Want progress on 100 Rooms of Enemies: The Nightmare Edition? Go here to see.

Are you a sample porter and wanna help with 100 Rooms of Enemies: The Nightmare Edition? Private Message me or Mellonpizza for details. Expect trading or boosting in exchange. 6 more left.

Basically what Skewer said. Posting progress here on the site would probably help prevent a lot of people from asking about progress. Even if it's hardly any at all it's better then months of hearing nothing right? Just going to take it that no progress is being made until we actually see something.

Originally posted by Koopster
One day, it's gonna come out.


The confidence in this post is strong! Anyways, a Zombie release may not solve it's problems but it would certainly help us all move on from this collab which nobody seems to give a shit about anymore wouldn't it? Based on your post it doesn't seem like releasing it would be much better either at this point as the hype is long gone and as I said nobody cares. a zombie release would relieve everyone who is struggling to get this finished.

Edited: Ninja'd twice.

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My Youtube Channel for Hacking and Gaming.
Nah Lui's been busy with all sorts of stuff so he hasn't had time to look at it.
I mean you in particular can see the staff forum so you should've seen this post he made literally yesterday:
Originally posted by Lui
I was going to go through the list of things during may since we wanted to be more done during the summer. I just need to remember how to use git because I'm bad.
@ HuFlungDu, if you read hit me up so we can work together (if/when you can).



And before y'all go "well how dare he", this is a hobby and you should be thankful people are working on it if you care so much about the project. Nothing is gained from the zombie release a specific group of people has been more or less subtly pushing for for a while and it's never even been seriously considered, to be frank.
You're acting way entitled. You could've spent your time fixing the issues in the list, too.

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Your layout has been removed.
Originally posted by leod
Nah Lui's been busy with all sorts of stuff so he hasn't had time to look at it.

Lui may in fact be the leader, but if he's not the one working on stuff, and others are, it's their responsibility to post updates on progress, so others who will show interest have some solid ground to work on.

Originally posted by leod
I mean you in particular can see the staff forum so you should've seen this post he made literally yesterday:
Originally posted by Lui
I was going to go through the list of things during may since we wanted to be more done during the summer. I just need to remember how to use git because I'm bad.
@ HuFlungDu, if you read hit me up so we can work together (if/when you can).


Removed a portion of my response here as it sounded pushy or even egotistical, and my last intention when posting is to be anything abusive, mean or otherwise.
The others who are working on it need to keep others who potentially want to work on this from being in the dark. It's a lack of information to the outside that has threads like this being made in the first place. It's a lack of organization that has lead to this being a thing in the first place.

Also, Lui's not the only one busy with stuff; I'm busy with quite a lot in my real life as well, as are much of the staff. As it's been said, there are others working on it. As far as who is, I don't know, that's how silent things have been on the forums.

Originally posted by leod
And before y'all go "well how dare he", this is a hobby and you should be thankful people are working on it if you care so much about the project. Nothing is gained from the zombie release a specific group of people has been more or less subtly pushing for for a while and it's never even been seriously considered, to be frank.


Nobody is going "how dare he", all anybody really wants at this point is to just get it off the back of anybody's minds and to be able to enjoy some kind of product.

Originally posted by leod
You're acting way entitled. You could've spent your time fixing the issues in the list, too.

Who is acting entitled, there's a lot of people posting here, so specification might help.
Not to mention Erik557 just confirmed that the list is outdated. How can I fix stuff when it's not even updated?

--------------------
Are you an ASM coder and want a boost on your Steam, Switch, PS4, or Xbox One accounts? Private Message me for details.
(I also offer SMW Custom Songs in exchange for ASM! I don't do ports though unless it's to remix.)

Want progress on 100 Rooms of Enemies: The Nightmare Edition? Go here to see.

Are you a sample porter and wanna help with 100 Rooms of Enemies: The Nightmare Edition? Private Message me or Mellonpizza for details. Expect trading or boosting in exchange. 6 more left.

I rarely ever post around here these days... but I will say a lot of my declined community interaction has much to do with the failures of this project and its broken promises. Just going to put that forth first.

Expectations have been high that we'd be seeing the collab released soon... but that didn't happen in 2012. Okay, maybe it will come out next year? Except it didn't come out in 2013 either. Okay, it's gotta be coming out the next year! 2014 comes to a close and still no SMWCP2. By 2016, the patience has already worn out, and whatever hype the project started with has completely evaporated. We have nothing left but apathy for SMWCP2 nowadays.

The real issue here is that SMWCP2 has become the elephant in the room ever since progress slowed to a halt around 2013. It's been sitting in the back of the community's mind for a long time now, but nobody has wanted to talk about it because they feel like there isn't anything that can be done for the collab, since most people lacked the abilities to finish up what was missing for completion. It's six years later, and we now have to come to the realization that we made a huge mistake somewhere with this project, and we must face the consequences for that mistake somehow. There's just no avoiding it. No matter what decision we come to, there will be backlash.

Nobody has faith anymore that this collab will ever see the light of day. But we cannot simply pretend like it never happened because many members of this community (myself included) contributed to the buildup of this collaboration, and their work will be put to shame so long as we choose to do nothing with this project. And if we actually do, through some miracle, actually finish this project, it's going to be too little too late. The SMW hacking mindset has changed a lot since 2011, and this hack was designed under that paradigm. It would never receive the appreciation that it would have a few years ago--if anything it would be met with contempt for how behind the times it feels in so many regards. Everything that would have been considered groundbreaking back in 2012 has already been done better by works, if not improved upon drastically, and even the custom bosses aren't going to leave much of an impression.

At the same time, outright canceling this project would be no good--too many people contributed a lot to this project, whether that be levels, graphics, custom sprites, music, and what-have-you. Seeing all of that go to complete waste would be a massive upset, and an insult to everyone that collaborated on this project. But even worse would be what it would mean for the future of collaborations on this site--which are already looking quite grim I should add. If a project that has been in the making for six years finally had to be canceled, nobody would ever want to start another massive sitewide collaboration hack like this ever again. There is also something that needs to be said about the symbolic aspect of SMWCP2; it was initially setting out to be *the* premier hack of SMWCentral, a testament to what this community is truly capable of when it organizes itself and bands together to accomplish something truly amazing. The pinnacle of SMW hacking ingenuity. But if gets canceled, it will be seen as a sign that SMW hacking has finally reached its threshold; further innovation and progress is no longer possible if this major work ended in complete failure. And that would have a reverberating effect upon this community.

And yet, the community realizes there needs to be closure to this woefully disappointing chapter of SMWC's history. The reason why the idea of a zombie release seems the most plausible course of action is because it is the decision that would result in the least amount of backlash. The backlash will be unavoidable no matter what is done, but this way the contributors to the project can finally rest knowing that their contributions won't go to complete waste and users who were curious about this project at one point can at least see what the hype was been about, and understand after playing it why we went for the zombie release. And who knows--maybe some generous soul out there will pull an A2MT and completely revivify the project and turn it into something that can be accepted as the premier hack of SMWCentral it originally set out to be. It's always a possibility, but that possibility will never exist so long as this hack continues to be held hostage in the depths of development hell simply because a few people claim to still be working on it when, as everyone else has pointed out, we've seen nothing to suggest this is indeed the case.

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My Let's Play channel (Current LP: Final Fantasy VI, MegaMari)
*insert joke about BM being completed first here*

Since its clear that very little has been done on this project to the point where its been sitting around for years now, I feel like the staff should encourage users to work on it by giving them some insentive, like a badge for their profiles or something. Is it silly? Maybe, but it would probably motivate people to do something (I know I'd work on it for a badge).

And as much as I'd like to play this and all, I feel like we should wait until all the nevessary steps are completed before releasing it.
Hey all! Being the one who lead the revival of A2MT if I have to step in I will unless the project heads decline. If you want me to be honest the reason this project is where it is, is because of several factors: Perfectionist, lack of communication, and lack of motivation. If it would just stop trying to be put up to 2017 standards by altering levels and just leave them as functional levels from 2012 then it'd get done. Fixing up bugs and glitches are priority over "modern" standards. If someone can send me the latest version with the completed overworld (with events), all levels inserted and a list of issues I'll see what I can do, I by no means am knowledgeable on everything related to what needs to be fixed so I may approach others for help. Your guys' choice unless your confident it's still being worked on.
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Forum Index - Events - Super Mario World Central Production 2 Completion Project - SMWCP2 Archive - Zombie Release?

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