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VLDCX Judging - The New Judges and the Future
Forum Index - Events - Current Contests & Events - The 10th Annual Vanilla Level Design Contest - VLDCX Judging - The New Judges and the Future
Pages: « 1 2 3 »
Hi people, Vitor Vilela here. It's been quite some time since judging started and just like with every big event, it's quite rare for plans to work out perfectly as we expected.

A few weeks ago, Deputy BS had to leave judging for personal reasons. In addition to that, Frost (also known as GiantShyGuy), had to leave the judging team as well. While he didn't mention his actual reasons, I believe he is having either health or school issues. But since I don't know anything specific I won't speculate.

After that, we ended up with four judges. Considering the size of this contest and the low but possible probability of more judges leaving the team, the PR team and I decided to look for more judges and I'm happy to announce that we found two heroes that will be helping the judging process: Sinc-X and Rameau's Nephew.

While Sinc-X is not known for his level design and hacks as he's specialized in music, his large amount of free time and overall gaming experience as well as his courage (yes, courage!!!) were deemed useful enough for his addition to the VLDCX judging team.

Rameau's Nephew on the other hand is a long-time, experienced SMW hacker, who recently placed very well in MaGL3, a Talkhaus contest. For those who remember, he also made a huge effort to write reviews for levels in SMWCP2 back in 2012, earning a MoTM award for it.

Now that Torchkas had to leave judging as well, we're gonna stay at five judges for now. I think it's a safe enough number to stay at until the actual judging is done.


What about the deadline?

The original judging deadline will runs out at the end of this month. However, seeing as this will likely not get met for obvious reasons, it might take more time until the judging is actually done for real. We might take up to 30 to 40 days longer than anticipated to give the new judges a fair amount of time to finish.

With that in mind, the overworld contest will likely start after C3 at the earliest, together with the compilation process. While this will definitely postpone the release of the game, I still have faith that it will be possible to finish it before Christmas. So let's wait and watch the process take its course.

Again, sorry for all the things I could've done better. I definitely failed in parts of the judging process by not taking some ideas for the judging format into consideration. Hopefully, next year we can present a judging process that is better suited to the large amount of entries.
hey as long as i win i dont give a dang what happens lol

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[url=https://smwc.me/1449737]support idols hack thread[/url]
Best of luck to the new judges! I know they're gonna do a really good job.

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🤔
Thanks for the official post Vitor! You completely right, plans never work out exactly as planned, but that's okay cause you work around them. Best of luck Sinc-x and Rameau, your courage and bravery is definitely appreciated. I trust that the judging results will be solid, and we definitely need to give props to the judges who have been working super hard to finish! As long as the results are solid and the judging comments are sufficient in comparison to a few comments and results from vldc9, I don't mind if it takes a long time either.
y'all are just trying to delay prizm winning 1st place aren't you
"Quit, don't quit... Noodles, don't noodles...You are too concerned about what was and what will be. There is a saying: yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift. That is why it is called the present." - Oogway
I just want for there to be something else to do

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*Insert witty footer here*
Originally posted by ThePat545
y'all are just trying to delay prizm winning 1st place aren't you


Yeah, uh... delaying... right...
♪♫♩♬
Glad to see an official statement on this matter. Good luck to Sinc-X and Rameau's Nephew in their judging, and to Koopster, lolyoshi, and Noivern - godspeed.

Originally posted by ThePat545
y'all are just trying to delay prizm winning 1st place aren't you

Didn't you hear? They dq'd Prizm on the basis of being a huge nerd

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"Someday, someone will best me. But it won't be today, and it won't be you."
Seeing as the contest gets more and more entries every year, I wonder if we'll need some change to the format going forward. I understand not wanting to cap participation because it's no longer necessary but I don't see things getting easier from here on out. Assigning judges only half of the entries at random doesn't work either because then how can you have a fair comparison of opinion?

The next contest isn't for another 8 months or so, but we should probably start discussing it sooner than later.
There was a bit of discussion about that, with in my opinion the best option being to have a larger group of people judge the contest in chunks, determining the best third or so of all levels using these rough scores and then having the actual judges only judge that third together.

First portion might look like this: we split the levels into as many chunks as we have of these intermittent judges and then each of these judges plays 2 of those chunks at random, so everyone gets a different chunk combination. Out of these, scores for each individual level are averaged and then used to determine which entries get properly old-school judged.



It's really not ideal because it will leave a lot of people out of getting properly scored, but as we can clearly see it's not feasible to have multiple people play and judge every single entry and expect any sort of reliability.
And there might be some solutions to those issues as well that we just have to figure out. Or maybe this system is just bad.
Can't you just optimize the current system we have?

For example, secret exits have been a huge turn-off because (let's face it) most of them in VLDCX were complete bullshit. Some were completely blind with no indication, some were hard or tedious, etc. In my opinion you should just prohibit secret exits altogether. If that sounds excessive, make a small filler level design contest and see how removing secret exits goes. With amounts of entries this high, the amount of secret exits we have makes it feel like well over 200 levels instead of the 175~ we have. It makes it tedious, hard, and overall longer to judge as a whole.

If that won't work out, at least enforce a standard. Completely blind secret exits (for example, tiles that look solid but aren't and lead to the secret) should not be acceptable if kaizo isn't. In fact, that's even less fair than kaizo. Anyone who doesn't follow the rules will be DQ'd/have points removed like with any rule that is broken.

Adding an infinite lives patch and the retry patch to the base ROM wouldn't have hurt either, and certainly would have made judging less tedious from game-overs and death cutscenes.
While all of that would certainly help the judging experienceódon't get me wrong, I agree with itóthe reality is that the sheer amount of levels that have to be judged even without regarding secret exits is enormous. Not only that, but the number seems to only be growing with each contest. The current judging system just doesn't seem to be working out the further we go on.

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"Someday, someone will best me. But it won't be today, and it won't be you."
This opinion will be unpopular, but maybe next year VLDC should be reverted back to just a contest. That would cause the number of entries drop to a more manageable amount.
Layout by Erik557
Psst! VLDCX is coming soon.
Reducing the amount of entries isn't exactly one of our goals, no.
Limiting designers more in general, really. There's better ways to improve the judging process than to just forcefully reduce the contest's size.
Originally posted by Wind Fish
This opinion will be unpopular, but maybe next year VLDC should be reverted back to just a contest. That would cause the number of entries drop to a more manageable amount.


Didn't someone on another thread suggest splitting the entries into two ROMs? I think that'd be less... unpopular.

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*Insert witty footer here*
Originally posted by Wise Person
Didn't someone on another thread suggest splitting the entries into two ROMs? I think that'd be less... unpopular.

I'd actually be cool with this.
maybe because it gives me S3K vibes

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I really need a layout. :<
Originally posted by Wise Person
Didn't someone on another thread suggest splitting the entries into two ROMs? I think that'd be less... unpopular.

That would just solve a potential "too many levels to fit a ROM" problem, and not the "too many levels to judge" one, wouldn't it?

(Fun fact: Splitting things into two ROMs was actually the plan for VLDC7, but the levels ended up fitting in one.)

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Originally posted by WhiteYoshiEgg
Originally posted by Wise Person
Didn't someone on another thread suggest splitting the entries into two ROMs? I think that'd be less... unpopular.

That would just solve a potential "too many levels to fit a ROM" problem, and not the "too many levels to judge" one, wouldn't it?

(Fun fact: Splitting things into two ROMs was actually the plan for VLDC7, but the levels ended up fitting in one.)


Thinking about it, we could just try to have more judges. Either that or have a max amount of entries, which I really don't want to happen.

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*Insert witty footer here*
Having more judges wouldn't make the workload any smaller for any of them.
Come, join the waltz of the dead... | YouTube
Originally posted by WhiteYoshiEgg
Originally posted by Wise Person
Didn't someone on another thread suggest splitting the entries into two ROMs? I think that'd be less... unpopular.

That would just solve a potential "too many levels to fit a ROM" problem, and not the "too many levels to judge" one, wouldn't it?

(Fun fact: Splitting things into two ROMs was actually the plan for VLDC7, but the levels ended up fitting in one.)

It wouldn't. I think the intent of that particular suggestion was more about having ever-increasing numbers of levels not be held back by the eternal question of "what can we fit in a SMW ROM" and less about lessening judge workload.
Which also means it was off-topic, but I digress.

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I really need a layout. :<
Pages: « 1 2 3 »
Forum Index - Events - Current Contests & Events - The 10th Annual Vanilla Level Design Contest - VLDCX Judging - The New Judges and the Future

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