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Level 01E - Seaside Spikes
Forum Index - Events - Super Mario World Central Production 2 Completion Project - SMWCP2 Archive - Level 01E - Seaside Spikes
Pages: « 1 2 »
Originally posted by HuFlungDu
4) I can't find the second coin, even in LM. Can you tell me where that is? Am I being stupid and missing it?


I found all SMWC Coins in my second playthrough. The only one that was a bit hard to find was the first one.

The second SMWC Coin is in the underwater segment. You enter this pipe:



And take this path:



There's a pipe that will take you to a large empty screen. The second SMWC Coin will be right there.

I had no trouble finding the third SMWC Coin too.
Originally posted by HuFlungDu
1) This level is long. I would put a midway point after each section. Dying after beating the first section destroyed my soul.

For a regular level maybe, but for a level that allows you to skip three levels having more than one midpoint is too generous. Plus, each individual section is not long enough to warrant a midpoint, imo.

Quote
2) Maybe just me, I did not find the first SMWC coin to be very clear. Maybe it's too hidden or maybe I suck at games.

It's hinted with a pair of coins, which is a reccuring hint in this hack, but I can also add coins above the invisible blocks to make it easier for the player to hit them.

Quote
3) Fishy stuff

The only one that rushes into you is the one near the venus plant that was mentioned in the post you quoted, so I'll get rid of that one. For the rest, you can see them bellow the ground or flying above you before they hit you, giving you time to react.

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5) I never got this far, but it looks like the final coin might also be pretty hard to find. Especially for a world 4 level.

I'll add two coins above the pipe, this should be enough

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6) Goal stuff

I didn't know there was a rule agains using it on the ground, but whatever, I'll take your suggestion.

I updated the files in the zip.


Hum... Getting those coins crashes the emulator. I tried ZSNES and Snes9x, both crashed.

Is it just for me...?
Originally posted by ShadowAlexandre
Originally posted by HuFlungDu
4) I can't find the second coin, even in LM. Can you tell me where that is? Am I being stupid and missing it?
The second SMWC Coin...

Yeah, I just went up the shaft there since there were coins. I noticed the way down, but I never got back there because the level was annoying me so I gave up for the night. I checked that path in LM, but couldn't find the coin cuz it's basically invisible.

Originally posted by ShadowAlexandre
I had no trouble finding the third SMWC Coin too.

I've still been unable to reach the final coin. I was trying to kill the lakitu to steal his cloud, but I kept either killing my shell or just dying because I don't handle lakitu well.

Originally posted by Najeraldo
Originally posted by HuFlungDu
1) This level is long. I would put a midway point after each section. Dying after beating the first section destroyed my soul.

For a regular level maybe, but for a level that allows you to skip three levels having more than one midpoint is too generous. Plus, each individual section is not long enough to warrant a midpoint, imo.

Maybe I'm just an old man, but I found it to be really difficult (2 game overs to beat the first section), so even I would think the difficulty would make up for that. I haven't played the levels around it, though.

Originally posted by Najeraldo
Quote
2) Maybe just me, I did not find the first SMWC coin to be very clear. Maybe it's too hidden or maybe I suck at games.

It's hinted with a pair of coins, which is a reccuring hint in this hack, but I can also add coins above the invisible blocks to make it easier for the player to hit them.

It might be better to have just the two coins below the invisible blocks, and not the other ones. 4 coins like that seems very inconspicuous to me, maybe.

Originally posted by Najeraldo
Quote
3) Fishy stuff

The only one that rushes into you is the one near the venus plant that was mentioned in the post you quoted, so I'll get rid of that one. For the rest, you can see them bellow the ground or flying above you before they hit you, giving you time to react.

I'll try to screenshot some more examples, but I know that almost every single horizontal fish took me off guard, maybe because I was already paying attention to all the things around it. It also seemed like some of the fish were placed in such a way that if you did something that would normally feel safe, it would kill you. I remember specifically bouncing off a chuck and directly into a fish. Not sure if that was on purpose, but it felt on purpose... I think it's probably this that makes me feel like the level is so long, because there's basically no down time.

Originally posted by Najeraldo
Quote
5) I never got this far, but it looks like the final coin might also be pretty hard to find. Especially for a world 4 level.

I'll add two coins above the pipe, this should be enough

SeemsGood.

Originally posted by Najeraldo
Quote
6) Goal stuff

I didn't know there was a rule agains using it on the ground, but whatever, I'll take your suggestion.

I don't know that there is, but it looks kind of weird to just have it on the ground when it's been in the air every other time, and also goal walking into a wall looks silly.


I'll check out the updated version a bit later.
Originally posted by ShadowAlexandre


Hum... Getting those coins crashes the emulator. I tried ZSNES and Snes9x, both crashed.

Is it just for me...?


No it's happening for me too.

I'm finding myself dying way more than I think I should be for a world 4 level. Every time I jump to avoid something or over porcupuffer it feels like there's a mini puffer right there. The first arc-jumping one even follows the exact path of the coins there that I went to collect.

Even if it lets you skip a bunch I'm having a real hard time beating this.

--------------------
Send me screenshots of the fishes that gave you the most trouble and I'll see what I can do about them. If I end up removing them, I'll probably replace them with another enemy though.
Here is a more exact explanation of the issues I had:


This is the first time I see a horizontal fish, and it is directly after swimming for a bit. So I'm swimming and I see a platform, so I want to jump on it, cuz swimming is slow. So I do and then, suddenly, this guy I've never seen before slaps my face. I don't even know to look out for him here.

This is exactly the same as that first one, expect for worse. I at least know that they exist, but that's like saying at least I know invisible coins blocks exist. It's still placed exactly right to hit me without me having a chance to react at exactly the place I naturally want to go.

This one is particularly nasty. I'm sitting on the floating platform, waiting for the two elements I know about (Big puffer and plant) to line up, and they finally do. So I jump and again get slapped in the face.

This guy's fireball acts similarly, because the most likely way I'm going to get past the combination of the cheep cheep and vertical puffer is to wait for them to line up and jump over them. When I do that, I get smacked in the face with a surprise fireball.

Also: Not a huge fan of the fact that every plant in this level uses fire.

This one I actually don't mind. It seems similar to some of the other ones, but because of the flying hammer bro and lack of other pressing conerns, I am not really rushing in as much as I would normally be in this level (which is often incredibly busy) and therefor have time to react to this.

I think this section is neat. However, I'm already in a secret passage inside of a secret passage. Is this really necessary?


This hopper on the left makes it hard to get onto the platform without taking a hit, because you've been swimming for a while at this point, so the big puffer is catching up, and I can't jump up earlier, because of that plant. So I usually just tank this.


This is right as lakitu shows up, meaning that one, my attention is already drawn skyward, and two, I am being held down by the lakitu up there, so jumping is scary. Mix these together and I almost always get hit here, even when I know it exists.



I would like to basically re-iterate what Teyla said. It took me probably 50 deaths and 5 days to make it through without savestates, and I don't think the player wants to put up with that.
Originally posted by HuFlungDu
Screens 1 and 2.

Those two hit you because you were rushing. If you take the time to swim a bit more (which it's not even a long swim) they'll jump over you. I removed the platforms and lowered the pipe so you don't feel tempted to jump.

Originally posted by HuFlungDu
Screen 3

You should be able to see this one from the platform; I moved it nearer to the pipe so you won't get this problem.

Originally posted by HuFlungDu
Screen 4

I never had a problem with this obstacle. The fishes give you a lot of moment to pass and you can safely go to the venus' safe spot before the fireballs reach you, especially now that you don't have a fish hitting yo in the safe spot. I'm not touching this one.

Originally posted by HuFlungDu
Screen 5

I agree this obstacle is hard; you have to be really quick to dodge it. I moved the hammer bro 1 tile up and 1 to the left do it gives you more time to react.

Originally posted by HuFlungDu
Screen 6

The entry to the first secret passage is as easy as entering a pipe that's in the middle of the way, so it's not really hidden.

Originally posted by HuFlungDu
Screen 7

Do this. And no, it's not hard, all you need is to know how the water physics work, which is no big deal (hint: you swim slower if you hit the down arrow).

Originally posted by HuFlungDu
Screen 8

I'll flatten the ground if you're too scared to jump over the fish (which is perfectly possible, and that's how you should dodge it, btw). Also, paying attention to the whole screen isn’t hard.

Originally posted by HuFlungDu
I would like to basically re-iterate what Teyla said. It took me probably 50 deaths and 5 days to make it through without savestates, and I don't think the player wants to put up with that.

How much is 5 days? 10 minutes per day? 30 minutes? 1 hour?

Regardless, you probably need to improve your playing style then (you said something similar in an earlier post), 50 attempts is not nearly what it took me to beat the level, and I'm not talking about this or the previous version of the level, I'm talking about the first finished version, which was never posted here and was way harder. You can argue I'm that author and that makes it easier for me, but I'm sure neither Skewer or ShadowAlexandre had to try so many times to beat it, and I don't think most experienced players will have as much problem as you had.

Update with the changes I mentioned.
Originally posted by Najeraldo
Those two hit you because you were rushing. If you take the time to swim a bit more (which it's not even a long swim) they'll jump over you. I removed the platforms and lowered the pipe so you don't feel tempted to jump.

There were platforms there. Why would I swim slowly when I could get to dry land?

Those are neat changes, I think they do well in keeping the obstacle intact, but not making it feel like an ambush.

Originally posted by Najeraldo
You should be able to see this one from the platform; I moved it nearer to the pipe so you won't get this problem.

Again, this keeps the difficult and somewhat frantic idea going, without it feeling like a cheap shot. I like it a lot.

Originally posted by Najeraldo
I never had a problem with this obstacle. The fishes give you a lot of moment to pass and you can safely go to the venus' safe spot before the fireballs reach you, especially now that you don't have a fish hitting yo in the safe spot. I'm not touching this one.

Going back through, it's ok if you are calm, but I think at this point I was so tilted from the previous things that seemed like cheap deaths that I was essentially in a constant state of panic. I think that is also why the level felt so long. Playing back through when I was less annoyed by things previously, it feels ok.

Originally posted by Najeraldo
I agree this obstacle is hard; you have to be really quick to dodge it. I moved the hammer bro 1 tile up and 1 to the left do it gives you more time to react.

Cool.

Originally posted by Najeraldo
The entry to the first secret passage is as easy as entering a pipe that's in the middle of the way, so it's not really hidden.

I would still argue that you treat it as a secret passage. It lets you skip some level (parts that I consider to be much harder than the part it takes you to) so it's clearly not meant to be taken every time. Still, it's a neat setup, I just don't really think it fits exactly there. It's not hard to dodge or anything, so if you don't want to mess with it, I'm not going to press.

Originally posted by Najeraldo
Do this. And no, it's not hard, all you need is to know how the water physics work, which is no big deal (hint: you swim slower if you hit the down arrow).

It is hard. I think my main issue with this section is that puffer sticks to the screen, which I didn't notice before, but that's what makes his movements seem so erratic, which makes this part weird. Especially when there is a platform there, swimming under is entirely unintuitive, I would not do that normally.

Originally posted by Najeraldo
I'll flatten the ground if you're too scared to jump over the fish (which is perfectly possible, and that's how you should dodge it, btw).

I do jump over the fish, but it still takes me by surprise, which is my biggest issue with most of this level.
Originally posted by Najeraldo
Also, paying attention to the whole screen isn’t hard.

Not if you introduce one thing at a time, then you know what you need to track. But in this case, it's like there are 2 things introduced almost at once, and the second one hurts you immediately if you don't notice it and dodge (usually jumping between it and a spiny). Doing it the other way around would likely be more fair, or somehow incentivising the player to slow down (when lakitu tends to make you want to speed up, because otherwise he'll pepper the area with spinies) would also work. However, this change works pretty ok as well.

Originally posted by Najeraldo
How much is 5 days? 10 minutes per day? 30 minutes? 1 hour?

It was something like 1 hour and 30 deaths on day one, then the rest peppered over the next 4 days (with one day I just didn't feel like it). The point was that I got too frustrated to continue fairly often, because the deaths didn't feel like they were my fault.

Originally posted by Najeraldo
Regardless, you probably need to improve your playing style then (you said something similar in an earlier post)p, 50 attempts is not nearly what it took me to beat the level, and I'm not talking about this or the previous version of the level, I'm talking about the first finished version, which was never posted here and was way harder. You can argue I'm that author and that makes it easier for me, but I'm sure neither Skewer or ShadowAlexandre had to try so many times to beat it, and I don't think most experienced players will have as much problem as you had.

I'm an average player. I'm not great by any stretch of the imagination, but I can get through almost the entire original game without issue (I think outrageous is the only level in the original game that I have any real issues with). The issue is that a lot of the people here are really, really good at SMW, so they don't recognize things that would be problematic to a more casual player. You could argue that the intended audience is most of the people here, but I always had a vision for this hack as a "Real Game", which would mean that most people of moderate skill would be able to beat it.



All in all, I think I'm OK with this level now, more or less, but it's hard to tell since I'm pretty used to it now.
No objections here.

Extras



I should have something witty to put here (even if it's just to update dated info), shouldn't I?

Advertising Space

Why does the Lakitu section have an (off-screen) ceiling?

To prevent the players from going to high if they take the cloud.
Pages: « 1 2 »
Forum Index - Events - Super Mario World Central Production 2 Completion Project - SMWCP2 Archive - Level 01E - Seaside Spikes

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