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VLDCX - New Leaders, the Overworld, & World X.

Why not have it so that there are 2 interconnected ROMs that can be played in any order, like Oracle of Ages and Seasons? This way, every level can appear while solving space issues.
Because that's ugly and also because that doesn't alleviate any of the work we would have to dump into it in the upcoming months.
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I don't understand the lack of willingness to split up the ROM. The problem is really inconsequential compared to one of the main complaints that I constantly hear come up. How are you going to fit 180 levels (more like 600-900 because levels are multiple parts) into a single ROM without Vitor? It doesn't alleviate your problem that there's a lot of work to do, but it sure as hell doesn't solve the space problem either by saying 'it's ugly'. It's not a big deal because not doing so doesn't solve any problems and doing it does. You're all super worried (from what I can tell) about the months of work that needs to be done, so just drop the small stuff. If we get two ROMs this year, so be it. We'll all still get it--caring about whether or not it's on one ROM or two at this point (or any point) is pretty ridiculous and even a little petty.

There's a ton of work to do. It's been said multiple times, and I'd like to respectfully remind everyone who runs this (especially Vitor) that arguably half of the work has already been done. The submissions that have been submitted (a lot of them, probably not all) have been worked on by a fairly large group of authors and that is something that collab hack coordinators would absolutely KILL for. The talk of killing VLDCX this year is not only heart-wrenching and cringeworthy, it's also a terrible move by those who run it regardless of the situation. All of the passion and time already went into the submissions this year. Regardless of the bullshit that Vitor pulled, (most) people still put a lot of work into it. Vitor wasn't the only one who committed to this whole contest, and to suggest that it be scrapped (dropping everyone else's levels and hard work) is going down the same road that Vitor trod and letting all the authors and staff down.

I suggest that VLDCX be postponed this year and pushed to next year's release, then taking a complete break from VLDC for the time being. Just put an end to it, indefinitely, until some more (reliable) parties can come together to make it happen again. The 'months of work' that need to be done can be done. I also suggest that only the top 100 levels should be used. That would help with the work load as well as dual-ROM non-issue. The number of levels included could be changed depending on the judge results (and possibly other factors) which leads me to my next suggestion: Release judge results when they are finished and when a plan to bring VLDCX comes to fruition. I also think a fancy-shmancy overworld is not necessary at this point. The most basic one will suffice. The meat of this contest is the levels, and that's what should be focused on.

I also want to emphasize the need for community input. There should be a "VLDCX situation" thread where things are laid out for the general user base to see, along with a plan or two (or more) on how to move forward with VLDCX. This is a community driven event, and it should have direct input with a specific thread for the event. I have a dog in this fight. So do 179-ish other people. I poured all the creativity and passion into this one level for this contest and I've got many mixed feelings about what has happened with VLDCX. I doubt I'm alone on this.

I recommend that if you're willing to consider letting Vitor back in to help, it should be unanimously decided that the capacity in which he does so is such that if he provides nothing at all it doesn't hinder the project. His involvement should be designated as such that the only thing he is capable of doing is helping. Seeing as he's let people down a couple of times now, in various circumstances, considering a third time should be done with extreme caution.
Originally posted by KP9000
There's a ton of work to do. It's been said multiple times, and I'd like to respectfully remind everyone who runs this (especially Vitor) that arguably half of the work has already been done. The submissions that have been submitted (a lot of them, probably not all) have been worked on by a fairly large group of authors and that is something that collab hack coordinators would absolutely KILL for. The talk of killing VLDCX this year is not only heart-wrenching and cringeworthy, it's also a terrible move by those who run it regardless of the situation. All of the passion and time already went into the submissions this year. Regardless of the bullshit that Vitor pulled, (most) people still put a lot of work into it. Vitor wasn't the only one who committed to this whole contest, and to suggest that it be scrapped (dropping everyone else's levels and hard work) is going down the same road that Vitor trod and letting all the authors and staff down.

There's been 0 talk or mention about dropping anything regarding the contest. Levels are still getting judged and ranked as ever (and nudge nudge really soon).

Originally posted by KP9000
I suggest that VLDCX be postponed this year and pushed to next year's release, then taking a complete break from VLDC for the time being. Just put an end to it, indefinitely, until some more (reliable) parties can come together to make it happen again. The 'months of work' that need to be done can be done. I also suggest that only the top 100 levels should be used. That would help with the work load as well as dual-ROM non-issue. The number of levels included could be changed depending on the judge results (and possibly other factors) which leads me to my next suggestion: Release judge results when they are finished and when a plan to bring VLDCX comes to fruition. I also think a fancy-shmancy overworld is not necessary at this point. The most basic one will suffice. The meat of this contest is the levels, and that's what should be focused on.

We have literally proposed the best-of collab as an alternative from the get-go, so please stop acting like we just came in here and were like "VLDCX is closed go home" lol

I don't know how judge results are even related to the collab, so I'll just say no to delaying them. Judge results will be announced when they are finished, regardless of anything else, so as to wrap up the contest portion of VLDCX. There's no reason to tie in the collab with the contest results somehow (not that I'm even sure of what you meant).

Originally posted by KP9000
I also want to emphasize the need for community input. There should be a "VLDCX situation" thread where things are laid out for the general user base to see, along with a plan or two (or more) on how to move forward with VLDCX. This is a community driven event, and it should have direct input with a specific thread for the event. I have a dog in this fight. So do 179-ish other people. I poured all the creativity and passion into this one level for this contest and I've got many mixed feelings about what has happened with VLDCX. I doubt I'm alone on this.

That's what this announcement was for, the original announcement (and idol's post a few pages after to answer some stuff) specifically asked people to give their input on how we should handle it.
Your issue seems to be the complete cutting of the full collab option, which as you should be able to have deduce (assuming you skimmed over the past few pages of posts, cause it was mentioned explicitly a few times there) was cut because it just isn't an option for us to handle.
We aren't just lamenting all the work for work's sake, we legitimately just don't have the time and will to spend another year on constructing this collab, costing us more and more time we could've spent hosting other contests (which VLDCX has already eaten up a bunch of without even involving the collab portion) and other projects.

Originally posted by KP9000
I recommend that if you're willing to consider letting Vitor back in to help, it should be unanimously decided that the capacity in which he does so is such that if he provides nothing at all it doesn't hinder the project. His involvement should be designated as such that the only thing he is capable of doing is helping. Seeing as he's let people down a couple of times now, in various circumstances, considering a third time should be done with extreme caution.

This proposal in particular isn't possible. If we go with the full collab, we would 100% require Vitor (or anyone else who knows enough about the SA-1 to pull it off) so him not doing something would mean a complete standstill. If we don't do the full collab, Vitor isn't willing to help.
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I'm back after a quick break.

Originally posted by CourtlyHades296
Why not have it so that there are 2 interconnected ROMs that can be played in any order, like Oracle of Ages and Seasons? This way, every level can appear while solving space issues.

I don't even work on this and you make it sound way easier than it is.

Originally posted by KP9000
I don't understand the lack of willingness to split up the ROM.

I kind of can.

Two ROMs can equal twice the overworld, which I know there's plenty of work done on that but it would still mean double the overworlds.

Second how would you cut the cake? I can give you an answer right now but no answer's perfect, so, grain of salt: have themes for one ROM and other themes for the other. The answer isn't to frontload the good stuff in one hack and the crap in the other because, unless they are really trash levels, they still deserve some exposure. And criticism, don't forget criticism. But I make this issue sound essay. I'm sure there's plenty of concerns that I would never think of when it comes to which level goes where. I really hope there aren't, but I've been surprised quite a bit in this thread already. What's a few more?

I mean this is already a let down. It's December. I do agree however that something should still be done. What I think would be fine is the lowest effort to just even get it out, because right now I don't really care about presentation. That ambition is how we got here now and I wouldn't mind it dying because I think people can understand why there'd be a half-assed release. (Or they won't, but they'd just be dumb. What's it matter?)

I don't think the people here are so lackluster that they shouldn't keep doing VLDC but they do need to dial back their expectations a little bit. Once they get a stronger development team they can shoot for super-amazing dual rom magic what ever again.

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Originally posted by leod

That's a lot to respond to and frankly I am still feeling like you're going all over the place, so instead I'm going to respond to your response to Gloomy. Honestly it's a lot more important than whatever else I have to say in response.

Now, if you are taking "limit time" literally, and your counterarguments are things like, "then they'll just abuse midway points." then wow are you not thinking about it at all. I thought my proposal was simple enough that I didn't have to stitch addendums to it and instead have it be, "It should be about 3 minutes to finish a level from start to finish without the midway point. Starting from the midway point to finish the level should not be mandatory."

This is why I'm hesitant to actually read and respond to your posts now: That is a molehill in the grand scheme of figuring out how a time limit can benefit or hinder the VLDC, and you're making it a mountain and instantly voting no and halting the conversation because of it. It's not productive to dismiss honest suggestions at the slightest issue, you know.

In fact I don't have time for the rest of your post aside from saying okay, slow down. First comes first, and to me, first is this contest.

So,

Originally posted by Gloomy
But that doesn't matter anymore, because I browsed through Noivern's judging videos and apparently the issue with levels taking long was mostly due to difficulty, and I was under the assumption that a good number of them was due to (also) having no self imposed time limit but the vast majority of them already had a timer of 600 and below, so I guess I was argumenting for barely any reason, lol.


Yeah admittedly I can't argue about cutting level times when it's difficulty that makes them long. I heard "levels taking too long" and naturally assumed it was because they actually were too long, but if difficulty's a part of that then that makes my stance a lot more complicated. As a result, I'll drop that suggestion as well.

I'm not one for overly difficult levels but I understand there is quite the interest in them, and so long as that's the case then I think they have a place in VLDC. If they're reasonably timed for their target skill level then that's the end of that. (But I could argue that Matterhorn and Woah Radicola wasn't. Especially Woah Radicola.)

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Now I'm going to work on not making these posts walls of text because geez I'm starting to be unable to read my own walls.
Originally posted by leod
There's been 0 talk or mention about dropping anything regarding the contest. Levels are still getting judged and ranked as ever (and nudge nudge really soon). We have literally proposed the best-of collab as an alternative from the get-go, so please stop acting like we just came in here and were like "VLDCX is closed go home" lol
My understanding of it is simply due to misinformation and/or badly drawn conclusions then. I have spoken to one of you staff in discord (can't even remember who because my memory sucks sometimes) who didn't exactly say outright that cutting the collab or not releasing results was the case but seemed to imply it several times.

Originally posted by leod
I don't know how judge results are even related to the collab, so I'll just say no to delaying them. Judge results will be announced when they are finished, regardless of anything else, so as to wrap up the contest portion of VLDCX. There's no reason to tie in the collab with the contest results somehow (not that I'm even sure of what you meant).
I was not aware the results came out at a different time than the collab. I thought the results were released through the collab when that was released.
Nah, the results are coming out really really soon, don't worry about that.
The only thing up for discussion is the collab and whether people think it's worth it to make the best-of or if we should just can it.


The consensus is to make the best-of by far (I haven't really seen anyone go for "drop it entirely"), so that's very likely what will happen.
We already have ideas for how this will happen as well that makes it a less painful (and long) process, for now and for the future.
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Well, whaddya know? Leod just made a miracle happen. Kudos to him.

Regarding the potential collab we may make that seems to be sparking interest and discussion...and arguments from everyone...why not make like, a Top 100, like Mario Party: The Top 100? Having anything less than 100 even though SMW only has 96 exits at most could trigger a bunch who were expected to be put in the hack when their level was ranked like, say, 40th, but didn't make it to the collab because everyone insisted on just 30 or just the best 10.

While this does mean we would have to add more levels like VLDC9 did, it probably won't be as big as that collab was...Also, do we even need a best/worst world if we're just doing the Top 100, and not showing off all the levels everyone submitted? A World X may be nice, though.
I have nothing else to say now. Huh...
Originally posted by Falconpunch
why not make like, a Top 100, like Mario Party: The Top 100?
nah you just want to expand the amount of levels because you want to be in the collab #smrpg{haha}

Top 30 would be the most concise experience; I'd even be okay with top 40, but anything more than that and the collab becomes a chore and unnecessary. Any argument for making the collab any more than 50 levels is a front for "i want to be included uwu", which imo is not a good standard to set. Prioritizing the level creator over the actual player is a terrible way to design anything, and it's kind of silly to subject the player to a boring onslaught of whatever levels just so everybody gets their chance to shine.

if you want to be in the collab, make a better level #smrpg{y}


e: and we dont need a worst world or a best world because the entire collab is going to be the best world
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madeulook
I rather play all the levels in VLDCX on my opinion.
Originally posted by chickaDEE Magazine
I rather play all the levels in VLDCX on my opinion.

That's not an option, lol.
Originally posted by Hobz
Top 30 would be the most concise experience; I'd even be okay with top 40, but anything more than that and the collab becomes a chore and unnecessary. Any argument for making the collab any more than 50 levels is a front for "i want to be included uwu", which imo is not a good standard to set. Prioritizing the level creator over the actual player is a terrible way to design anything, and it's kind of silly to subject the player to a boring onslaught of whatever levels just so everybody gets their chance to shine.

if you want to be in the collab, make a better level #smrpg{y}

There's genuinely some levels worth being played in the top 60.
We are not doing top anything.
Originally posted by lolyoshi
There's genuinely some levels worth being played in the top 60.

i agree fully.
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madeulook
Why Are they nit picking about top 50 or 60. I rather play over 350 exits in the game.
Top 60 seems fair enough. If we did a Top 100, it would require the ASM from VLDC9, and while a lot of us want more, 60 could be enough for this year, at least.

Also, based on the rather chaotic chat in the SMWC Discord group, I think we all agree that at least 60 levels for the collab is fair.
I have nothing else to say now. Huh...
Originally posted by chickaDEE Magazine
Why Are they nit picking about top 50 or 60. I rather play over 350 exits in the game.

Compile all of them yourself then. #smrpg{sick}
Originally posted by chickaDEE Magazine
I rather play all the levels in VLDCX on my opinion.

You can do that right now. Sure there's no fancy OW or rewards, but you still get to play all the levels.
Layout by Erik557
Hi.
I don't like when people ruin the VLDCX collab.
I reiterate everything hobz said about the top 30~40 lol.

Originally posted by Falconpunch
Also, based on the rather chaotic chat in the SMWC Discord group, I think we all agree that at least 60 levels for the collab is fair.

You were literally the only person to (constantly and annoyingly) suggest that. Idol kinda agreed but that's only because there's like 2 levels in the 50~60 area that she didn't want to see left out.

Originally posted by chickaDEE Magazine
I don't like when people ruin the VLDCX collab.

Sad!