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VLDCX - New Leaders, the Overworld, & World X.

Just play Abstract Plains on your own time, that's the only worthwhile worst world contender.
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Originally posted by DarkMatt
I really hope you are not referring to the garbage of VLDC as variety, because when I think different strokes, I do not think works of art alongside piles of trash.

Furthermore player voting isn't that great of an idea for a couple reasons I can think of. The biggest one is only popularity will get them their ticket in, and it has little to do with whether or not they made a good level. Second, they have to play the level in the first place, and with how few people have played VLDCX's entries so far I am not expecting people to just download the patches, patch all the roms, and play all the levels, just to have an idea of voting. In fact nevermind, THAT's the biggest reason. That's already a lot of work for judges, and you're expecting people to do that just to have an idea of what to vote for?

I wouldn't say the stuff below 60th place is garbage. Some of those levels would probably make an okay level in a standard SMW hack.

You've got a good point on the voting thing. Only crazy people like me actually sits and plays through all the entries.
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Hi.
Originally posted by leod
Abstract Plains


Oh, hello there! You seem to have dropped your Deppenapostroph: '
Originally posted by Wind Fish
I wouldn't say the stuff below 60th place is garbage. Some of those levels would probably make an okay level in a standard SMW hack.

I was more referring to the worst levels you were going to include in your planned compilation of VLDCX. I agree that some levels, and this is a pretty limited some, can hold their own if they were a romhack. There's plenty of levels that wouldn't be appealing to play as a whole romhack of that sort of design, and that includes the levels that just can't hold an identity in any way.
Originally posted by Wind Fish
Whilst some judges may think a level is decent, other judges may not. Therefore it may be better to pick levels that are universally seen as decent.


I don't know if you noticed, but the rankings are done by average score. It already takes into consideration the scores of all judges. There's no more objective way to determine which levels are worth being put into a collab than top X.

But for the sake of argument, let's assume "universally seen as decent" is the best indicator of quality. How then do we determine what constitutes "universally"? Exactly how far apart do the judges' scores have to be before it becomes no longer universal? What's the cutoff for decent?
I'm just happy the judges even finished at all. Don't see a reason to get mad for them, especially after an 8 month wait to see them finish all 180+ entries AND take the time to write 180+ comments total as their reasons why levels are good/bad.

inb4 being bias cuz i got a good score jk this is a joke dont take this seriously
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Originally posted by DarkMatt
I was more referring to the worst levels you were going to include in your planned compilation of VLDCX. I agree that some levels, and this is a pretty limited some, can hold their own if they were a romhack. There's plenty of levels that wouldn't be appealing to play as a whole romhack of that sort of design, and that includes the levels that just can't hold an identity in any way.

Oh that! It was just to give the collab a simalar structure to the previous one. Remember some of the worst levels from the previous years have been charming and memorable.
Originally posted by Noivern
I don't know if you noticed, but the rankings are done by average score. It already takes into consideration the scores of all judges. There's no more objective way to determine which levels are worth being put into a collab than top X.

But for the sake of argument, let's assume "universally seen as decent" is the best indicator of quality. How then do we determine what constitutes "universally"? Exactly how far apart do the judges' scores have to be before it becomes no longer universal? What's the cutoff for decent?
Yeah I noticed. Doesn't mean I didn't focus too much on the individual scores.

Alright so, if there is over a 10 point difference, I'd say it's not universal.
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Hi.
Originally posted by Wind Fish
Alright so, if there is over a 10 point difference, I'd say it's not universal.


You just killed all but 16 entries. And 12 of those entries scored fewer than 40 points.
Originally posted by Noivern
You just killed all but 16 entries. And 12 of those entries scored fewer than 40 points.

I'll give you credit where due. I wasn't expecting you to check all the scores for the differences. I said this earlier, but sometimes I get carried away with my suggestions/ideas. It's kinda why this time it was flawed. #tb{''}
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Hi.
Originally posted by Wind Fish
Remember some of the worst levels from the previous years have been charming and memorable.

For all the wrong reasons I'd rather we do not hold to any value whatsoever.

Also, I don't remember a damn thing about any of the worst levels. Even the ones made by my friends. So that really wrong fondness for trash I can't even relate to.
Originally posted by DarkMatt
For all the wrong reasons I'd rather we do not hold to any value whatsoever.

Also, I don't remember a damn thing about any of the worst levels. Even the ones made by my friends. So that really wrong fondness for trash I can't even relate to.

I guess taste is subjective. The ones that stood out to me were Green Muncher Land, Epic Nothing, and Woah Radicola.
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Hi.
Originally posted by Wind Fish
The ones that stood out to me were Green Muncher Land, Epic Nothing, and Woah Radicola.

And this is why we can't be friends.

I'm more of the mind that a best of compilation should actually be a best of, and "best of the garbage" is not really best of anything now is it? Again, "Best at Being Bad at Level Design" is not a good title to wear.
Originally posted by DarkMatt
And this is why we can't be friends.

I'm more of the mind that a best of compilation should actually be a best of, and "best of the garbage" is not really best of anything now is it? Again, "Best at Being Bad at Level Design" is not a good title to wear.

Whatever. #tb{:p}

I was more treating it like a miniature version of the standard collab. I do get that most are in favor of a best-of collab, and that's probably what it will end up being. I mean, it was already going that route before I made my suggestion.
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Hi.
Originally posted by DarkMatt
"Best at Being Bad at Level Design" is not a good title to wear.


Yeah, as someone who has had that title before, it's not fun.

If the user agrees, sure, but if not... don't force it on them.
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I think what Wind Fish is trying to get across is the previous VLDC collabs had a "worst" world, thus it wouldn't be the same without it.

I have to say, I kinda agree with the notion, but of course it's up to the people making the collab.
The thing with making a worst of collab is that knowing it's something that might happen in future years, people will be inclined to make bad levels on purpose, since it's much easier to make something that belongs in a worst world than in a best world.
That's a thing even if we ended up only compiling the highlights of the worst levels.
People have made worst world tier levels ever since these contests took place so I don't really think it'd make that much of a difference, also,
what we or I at least if I was misinterpretating Wind fish is a small sub map within the actual collab, not another collab entirely.

Like the previous structure for these collabs except for being more concise and (probably) lacking a world X. Five or less levels would be in the worst world.

If in the unlikely case this is considered I have some suggestions to ensure while they are indeed "worst" world tier they wouldn't be unfun nor completely sapping to play, well... actually only one suggestion,
the levels that would have a green door to skip them be automatically not considered fr obvious reasons.
Worst Worlds are super boring tbh
Did anyone really care about VLDC8&9's Worst World outside of the submap graphics?

Just keep jesus' edgy instawin shitpost level as an easter egg and scrap the rest imo

100%ing the VLDC compilations for World X is a huge pain and tbh, no offense to contest participants but just keeping the better half would help with making it less of a chore to complete
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Originally posted by Glitchy
I think what Wind Fish is trying to get across is the previous VLDC collabs had a "worst" world, thus it wouldn't be the same without it.

I have to say, I kinda agree with the notion, but of course it's up to the people making the collab.
You got it. #tb{:D} However, it seems the majority would prefer it being a best-of collab. So there's probably no point on pushing the suggestion further.

Originally posted by lion
Worst Worlds are super boring tbh
Did anyone really care about VLDC8&9's Worst World outside of the submap graphics?

Just keep jesus' edgy instawin shitpost level as an easter egg and scrap the rest imo

100%ing the VLDC compilations for World X is a huge pain and tbh, no offense to contest participants but just keeping the better half would help with making it less of a chore to complete

There's quite a few that aren't boring. The only reason the few got into the Worst Worlds because their design was questionable.

Also, there's usually only one or two joke levels per contest. The rest are genuine attempts. Oh well, who cares anyway? The decisions for the collab have already been made at this point.
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Hi.
Originally posted by Glitchy
I think what Wind Fish is trying to get across is the previous VLDC collabs had a "worst" world, thus it wouldn't be the same without it.

I have to say, I kinda agree with the notion, but of course it's up to the people making the collab.

It is indeed what I am getting from his posts. However, I've yet to point out that, when you have a limited amount of levels to showcase what VLDC has put out, I would really not want slots wasted on not very fun at all levels, not even as an example of how bad level design can get, or comedy value, or whatever no reason's good.