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VLDCX - New Leaders, the Overworld, & World X.

may the good news come soon
Originally posted by Daizo Dee Von
Though, I do have to wonder (other then it taking a year or two) why it can't just be two separate roms (one for the worst 90+, one for the best 90+) and World X or some other prize would be unlocked after completing the best half.

the collab overall is too much work for something everyone has moved on from already, also it's not like they're being paid, etc. for this either

so the inconveniences and setbacks really outweigh whatever benefits a full collab provides

that's at least what I can put together from the random shit everyone is saying on discord
Originally posted by Daizo Dee Von
Just wait, SMWCP2 will be cancelled too.

I mean considering that Vitor Veilia totally just ran off with the knowledge of how to create duel roms, I'm not surprised either to see it being canned/reworked.

SMWCP2 has been more alive than ever, don't worry. It's just that a lot of things are happening behind the scenes.

Also, Vitor's dual rom knowledge was passed down to Medic, so that wasn't really a problem, it's just what idol said regarding zero viability schedule-wise and lack of proper leadership.
Originally posted by Gloomy
It's just that a lot of things are happening behind the scenes.

Which things? Are you talking about the PIXI and the UberASM tool?

Originally posted by Daizo Dee Von
Though, I do have to wonder (other then it taking a year or two) why it can't just be two separate roms (one for the worst 90+, one for the best 90+) and World X or some other prize would be unlocked after completing the best half.

Did you calculated how many levels and sublevels have in all +180 entries to fit in a ROM of 512 levels?

What's really happened with the judges and the entries?
I suppose i must wait a VLDC11 in 2019.
To be honest this is disheartening, I mean yeah 180+ levels is pretty daunting, but now that there is a possibility for levels to not even make it into the rom, might make people hesitant from even trying.
Originally posted by Glitchy
To be honest this is disheartening, I mean yeah 180+ levels is pretty daunting, but now that there is a possibility for levels to not even make it into the rom, might make people hesitant from even trying.

Or maybe make them try harder, which would be great for everyone. #wario{;)}
Originally posted by Glitchy
there is a possibility for levels to not even make it into the rom, might make people hesitant from even trying.

After this experience, I wouldn't mind it at all.
Originally posted by Roberto zampari
Originally posted by Gloomy
It's just that a lot of things are happening behind the scenes.

Which things? Are you talking about the PIXI and the UberASM tool?

Not just these, a lot of other priorities. Just stay patient.

I'm not surprised that the collab is likely to not happen, given (mostly) the enormous number of entries. What matters is that you guys are working hard to make everything happen smoothly after all.
Understandable. I'm honestly not even sure if that many people would play the full thing lol, definitely not all exits. Something like top 50 sounds good enough, or maybe top 10 ("best world" only).
Considering the large number of entries and the amount of time that has passed since the end of the contest, I’m not that surprised either. But it’s especially disappointing to hear for this VLDC, as it’s the 10th one.

To be honest, splitting the collab into two will just create more work and it will carry on throughout next year, so it’s best to just avoid this idea and move on, although I don’t see anything wrong with a top 50-ish mini collab.

Frankly, all I’m really looking forward to right now is the results. I’ll be satisfied with just that.
Formerly known as nick 139
My YouTube channel
Well, that's...disappointing being my first VLDC to enter and all that but from understanding the why behind it (Vitor gone and having the knowledge needed), it's understandable. #wario{...}
Layout by RanAS, modified by yours truly.

Very dissapointed. In my opinion you are giving Vitor a fault that he doesn't deserve too much. I mean, yes, he's probably the only one that actually know how the 180+ entries was going to be managed to fit in one rom and all that stuff, but he resigned the enough time ago to make the new leader think more about how that was going to be handled after his resignation (because at this point is well known by all of us that things were going "behind scenes" and so) So, posting this latest update when there was supposed to left arround 20 days to the supposed deadline of the collab is a bit out of place. Yeah, Vitor has part of the fault, but the current leading team has to recognize that this is a failure of everyone who is and was involved on it.

(I'm sorry if I sound rude, but this is my sincere opinion)

About the collab itself, I'm not a big fan of making a collab just with the best entries (why only certain users are deserved to have them levels on the collab while others don't? It's unfair as fuck), or two separate roms with the half of the levels in each one (this is self-explanatory, don't you think?) For me the better option is just to get rid of them completely (unless something like the original idea but simpler)
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2021 TRENO vibe check thread
Originally posted by Shiny Ninetales
I'm not a big fan of making a collab just with the best entries (why only certain users are deserved to have them levels on the collab while others don't? It's unfair as fuck)


There’s a difference between spending all your time making an award-winning level and going on Lunar Magic just to plop out a shitty level so it could be in the collab. Just saying.
Formerly known as nick 139
My YouTube channel
Shiny, did you stop to consider that maybe the task is a bit too big if you catch my drift? Vitor, the guy who coded SA-1 by the way, a complete rewrite of SMW's handling basically, was also the guy who was coding how this was all going to work. There was talk of Dual Rom and what not because of how big this task is, and he quit. And then the guy he taught also quit, probably because of how big it is. So maybe it's a whole lot of trouble trying to get this all in there stably because it's going massive leaps and bounds further than what the rom can support.

Super Mario World can't support up to 180 levels, let alone the sublevels and what not, that's WAY much more than what super Mario World can initially support. If you want to take a crack at coding VLDCX and what not, then please step up and do it. Vitor quit, Medic quit, what's one more? As of right now, we really don't have a trusted coder for it anymore.

There's also the judging, which is by itself a major task. Judges have to fairly evaluate the levels and do their best to be absent of bias, that basically means playing a level again and again until they have a proper estimated score. That as well takes a bit of time, especially when it's 180+ levels to judge. There's also the fact that we haven't even had the overworld design contest yet, and we've even pushed back the dates of other contests, like Idol, for this monster that is VLDCX.

Point is: few people are capable of properly putting this together: we're people, we're sacrificing our free time to get this done, and if nobody is doing what needs to be done for the collab, or can't get it done for one reason or another, then the best thing to do is compromise. Cutting the levels is unfair, yeah; but that's why compromise is such a... bad word that people don't really want to hear. It's a disappointment, but life tosses a ton at everybody.
Originally posted by Shiny Ninetales
About the collab itself, I'm not a big fan of making a collab just with the best entries (why only certain users are deserved to have them levels on the collab while others don't? It's unfair as fuck)

Because, as literally everyone we've gotten a hold of who played all of the entries this year will tell you, the majority of the levels really just aren't worth playing at all. I mean, we literally had plans for VLDCX that involved being able to skip a large part of the game and still get to the post-game, just because of how much of a boring trudge it would be. A best-of would simply be a far more polished, more enjoyable product.
And I mean, asking why only "certain users" (that should be "certain levels") get to be in the collab is like asking why only the top 3 people get trophies in literally every contest; because they're good and they earned it and are worth putting effort into showing off.

And now you might ask, so why is this in the cards but the full collab isn't? That's because this is something we can actually achieve and finish before 2021, if at all.
Why "if at all"? Because Vitor has kind of screwed everyone over on that. He put extremely loose restrictions on everything resource-wise in the contest from the get-go because he was planning to use the dual ROM system, and then promptly left the entire thing to die.

Originally posted by Shiny Ninetales
Very dissapointed. In my opinion you are giving Vitor a fault that he doesn't deserve too much. I mean, yes, he's probably the only one that actually know how the 180+ entries was going to be managed to fit in one rom and all that stuff, but he resigned the enough time ago to make the new leader think more about how that was going to be handled after his resignation (because at this point is well known by all of us that things were going "behind scenes" and so)

When he left the staff team, he didn't do the sensible thing and like, settle all that stuff beforehand, he literally just went awol on every single project the site was in the process of handling and left the rest of us to figure it out.
So we picked it up and focused on getting a new ASM leader and keep an eye on judging going smoothly. Medic volunteered to lead the ASM part and actually knew how the dual ROM system works, so hooray, but he got swamped with school work and wasn't motivated to spend his free time working on this so he quit that as well.
Shortly after, Vitor came back and we let him take over the ASM again because hey, even though he's literally left us in the dust on more than just VLDCX on a whim, letting him do it wasn't an issue because nobody else knew how to! And as he always did, he assured us that yes, 100% everything will go fine without actually telling us any of his plans, without being transparent about anything at all and almost instantly falling back into his routine of not giving anyone anything to go off of other than "I'll make it happen".
And then a few weeks/months after he fucked off again, leaving us with no info once more (and not even a heads up that he is indeed leaving), which leads us to where we are now.

So yeah, if you want to find someone to blame for us not knowing anything about this, it's literally Vitor still.
He set everything up to only work in the dual ROM system by giving people preposterous amounts of resources to work with, didn't bother to share any of his plans with anyone, left it all in the dust without anyone knowing what he was actually planning all along and finally coming back only to sit there giving us promises about how everything will work out fine only to leave once again.
Throughout the time he was leading VLDCX, he did not talk to anyone about his plans until after he announced them. Staff as well as judges and other helpers found out about every important piece of information after he posted it publicly, where it was tough to just go "but wait, this isn't ideal" because it was already out there. Not that he ever listened to that anyway.

Originally posted by Shiny Ninetales
So, posting this latest update when there was supposed to left arround 20 days to the supposed deadline of the collab is a bit out of place. Yeah, Vitor has part of the fault, but the current leading team has to recognize that this is a failure of everyone who is and was involved on it.

I don't think you understand that we simply don't have the human resources on this site to make this collab a thing the way Vitor laid it out to be without Vitor actually pulling through with it.
VLDCX already swallowed up, I wanna say... 3 other big collabs this year? Just because we can't handle more than the small amount of people we are can handle, and knowing that we wouldn't be able to host x contest while simultaneously compiling the VLDCX collab simply forced us not to host them just by being there, because there was always a chance that they would fall into the same timeslot (and VLDCX would've eaten up a BIG timeslot).

So basically, unless you don't want contests for a year and can find someone who will program all of our ASM needs for the collab in a timely manner as Vitor promised he would more than five dozen times before disappearing twice, you have absolutely no place to be disappointed in anyone whose name doesn't start with V.
Your layout has been removed.
Skewer's post is good, but there are a few additional points I'd like to make.

Re: Vitor - As someone who has insider information from being a judge, Vitor's hosting was really not good. When Vitor stopped hosting and Idol hopped onto the VLDCX train, things definitely got better. Idol got some backup judges quick and properly bugged us about judging and generally got shit done.

Re: Timing - Idol's announcement is not something that was decided upon forever ago and the staff just sat on their thumbs for weeks before posting. Yes, the timing is bad and it could be better, but the decision not to do the big huge collab is something that has been mulled for a while and the decision was only made recently.

Re: Judging - The constant "all these levels", "judging takes time" stuff is starting to wear thin to be honest. The truth is that even though there were a whole whole lot of entries, submissions have been closed for a whole 8 months and that is simply too long. Some of it is due to having two judges start a few months after submissions, some of it is simply judging too slow.

Re: Collab - Just gonna set the record straight here: a mini top X collab is the best thing you can get. Including only entries from the top down by rank is the only way to decide what goes into the collab objectively. Every other possible split is very subjective and that's something we want to avoid.
1) Introduction to this wall of text

It's undoubtedly too much work to put the dual ROM idea together, and I agree on how it's being handled. It's disappointing but there are definitely worse ways to handle this, like actually trying to go through with the dual ROM idea LOL

There are a few things to blame Vitor for, but I did a bit of math and I'm led to believe he shouldn't be blamed for everything. The "taking too long" point just isn't adding up and isn't a good reason why we should point all the fingers at Vitor (even keeping his screw-ups in mind).

2) Ackchyually Vitor's entirely to blame for everything that isn't the judging

First I'll state that if the OG judges didn't do anything for a full 2 months up until the announcement regarding the replacement judges (June 10, 2017) that still leaves 195 days (taking the 20 days we have until the deadline that Shiny mentioned into consideration), or approximately 27.85 weeks to do judging (I'll round it off to 28 weeks for the sake of simplicity). I'll just give every judge we currently have the 195-day/4,680-hour limit seeing as it'll make my life easier and your understanding simpler. I'll also be assuming the max work time in the U.S. and Canada (48 hours per week) and Brazil (44 hours) and a generous 10 hours of sleep per day (the average person needs 7-9 hours of sleep per day). On top of this I'll give Sinc-X the benefit of the doubt since he was hosting Idol on top of judging. Shit on me if any of the other judges live out of these countries, and really shit on me if I come off as a pretentious jackass for assuming where people live and what they do.

Multiplying 195 days by 10 hours of sleep, and assuming a 5-day schedule every week, add 28(5*9.6) hours, making a total of 1,950 + 1,344, or 3,294 hours (less hours if you take the Brazilian schedule into consideration). Subtract that from 4,680 hours and you get 1,386 hours of free time (obviously this varies for different people considering this is literally just assumption combined with basic math). That being said, there are 179 submissions in the compiled .bps folder (out of the 185 that were submitted). Using Noivern's playthrough videos as an example, his longest video was by far of submission 089, taking nearly a full hour (54:28) to complete. If the judges took an hour to play through every level, that would be 179 hours subtracted from 1,386 hours, making a total of 1,207 hours free. But taking different skill levels into consideration, I'll give the judges 2 times this amount to complete each level. 179 submissions times 2 hours to beat a level makes 358 hours, and that being subtracted from the 1,386 hours of free time they have still leaves them with 1,028 hours to spare. That's a whole 42 days of whatever they want to do to spare (remember that 10 hours of sleep per day and the max work time per week aren't included in this because we already subtracted that time from the total 195 days; also if you want to use the school argument I'll debate that too but I don't know if any of the judges are going through school right now). That's a big chunk of time; I understand if there's conditions outside of just your average work-sleep-eat-shit schedule but I haven't seen any posts, etc. about that sort of thing. I could just be living under a Dwayne Johnson but that's still a lot of free time otherwise.

With that in mind, I'll be completely honest. I agree with Shiny in the regard that Vitor isn't the only one to blame, and that more than one person is at fault. Which judges specifically, how much blame? Shit if I know, I'm not a mind reader lmao. But it's not solely Vitor. He's accountable for a lot of the issues, but the judges took a long time, perhaps longer than they should have (and refusing to reveal their progress for 8 months convinces me of this even further). I will say this: as much as I respect him and appreciate what he's contributed to the site, (SA-1, UberASMTool, etc.) it was a dick move to leave before finishing a project that was reliant on his skills, especially after hyping and promoting it so much. Which brings me to my next main point...

3) If you skimmed through this post uninterested, the main point is that it's not all on the judges or all on Vitor; also the VLDCX team made a pretty good decision

I agree on how it's being handled overall. Something worse than a bad situation is the situation becoming even worse, and everyone who decided to make a smaller collab is on the right track. An overworld collab and the dual ROM issue make this tiring and more trouble than it's worth. Truth is, it was too reliant on Vitor and, after he left, too ambitious. As others have said, Vitor and Medic are the only ones who know how to do it but they left so we're out of options here (to be clear, I don't blame Medic at all; it wasn't his responsibility to finish Vitor's project for him). So whoever called the shots for this, you did a good job. With a dual ROM out of the question, a collab without the worse portion of VLDCX is a very just compromise given the circumstances. Instead of focusing on the few cons, why not focus on the many pros? Most of the levels are going to be ones that weren't just garbage dumped into Lunar Magic, making playing through it much less tedious. It'll arrive a lot sooner than a few years from now, which, given the wait we've already endured, is nice to hear. And to top it all off, it's going to be a lot easier for whoever's putting it together. So I say +500 cool points for this decision (can be traded for Roblox and Flintstones merchandise).

4) A tl;dr hOLY sHIt

I did quick maffs to see that the judges probably had a lot of time to get it done sooner but the overall workload/wait/etc. isn't enormous because of the judges alone, this is because Vitor left for shits and giggles and dumped the responsibility on everyone else; overall they made a good decision considering the circumstances also I need to learn to stop overusing parentheses
jeez people be mad, don't they?
Originally posted by Noivern
Re: Collab - Just gonna set the record straight here: a mini top X collab is the best thing you can get. Including only entries from the top down by rank is the only way to decide what goes into the collab objectively. Every other possible split is very subjective and that's something we want to avoid.

So if you guys are doing a best-of VLDCX, does that mean we can use our level we submitted elsewhere? (e.g. a hack)
Layout by Erik557
Hi.
Originally posted by Wind Fish
Originally posted by Noivern
Re: Collab - Just gonna set the record straight here: a mini top X collab is the best thing you can get. Including only entries from the top down by rank is the only way to decide what goes into the collab objectively. Every other possible split is very subjective and that's something we want to avoid.

So if you guys are doing a best-of VLDCX, does that mean we can use our level we submitted elsewhere? (e.g. a hack)

If its your level, then whos stopping you?
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