Banner
Views: 790,987,404
Time:
10 users online:  1UPdudes, Darkslayer, Fermín Acosta Jr., Flippn'Fences, ForthRightMC, Gamma V, Infinity, kellykelster, Ruiyabi, Rykon-V73 - Guests: 26 - Bots: 197 Users: 41,297 (1,497 active)
Latest: Joseph567
Tip: Unless you've disabled the bonus game, don't use a goal tape in a vertical level. The bonus game won't appear if a player happens to reach 100 bonus stars there.Not logged in.
Why creating your next generic SMW hack is the worst thing you can do
Forum Index - SMW Hacking - SMW Hacking Discussion - Why creating your next generic SMW hack is the worst thing you can do
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 » Thread Closed
Creating your next generic SMW hack is the worst thing you can do for yourself and for SMWC. I have noticed a trend in the WIP forums, on discord, and just throughout SMW hacking in general. Certain words are tossed around frequently, including "generic", "plain" and "typical". The goal for many hackers is to devise a normal, typical hack. Sometimes, it's in the same vain as Nintendo style (whatever that is). Other times, it's copying popular hacks such as 12 orbs.

Regardless, it's pretty normal to see a lot of generic levels on the site. There's no way everyone is going to make something unusual. The weird thing I have noticed is how many people are proud of it. It's been a sort of in-joke among some users about how many hacks have generic words in their titles. Let's look at a few:

There are 20 hacks with the word "another" in the name. Two hacks literally have "generic" as the title, and one hack is literally called Super Normal World. Another splendid hack title is "Another Generic SMW Hack". Aren't those names exciting? Yeah, I don't exactly feel excited to play these hacks. And in fact, I haven't played them, because the titles themselves hint at the fact that the levels themselves might also be highly generic.

Why is making a generic hack something to be proud of? Frankly, it's not. I'm not making this thread to complain. I'm doing it to charge the users and hackers of SMWCentral with a task. Stop being generic. Be different, be unique, be creative, make your own style. Make a level that just shouts YOU and not Nintendo. You are not a Nintendo employee. You're not a game designer either. You are an artist, and your canvas is SMW. So why do we constantly draw the box art on our canvas? Do something new, surprise people, and challenge yourself in this hobby.

So next time you make a thread in the WIP forums called "my next generic SMW level", stop yourself. Delete the hack and start over. Come up with a name that speaks to you, not what you think will be popular or what is SMWC norms. Speaking of norms, break them! Ignore the unspoken rules that float around the Central, which have a habit of stifling creativity. Make your own rules, bend them if necessary, and make sure that the end result is fun. If you don't have fun playing your own level, restart and try again. Browse the SMW sprites and blocks section for wacky things and try them. Make mistakes so you can learn from them, and create wacky unusual levels, so others can critique them, and you can better yourself as a hacker. If you are worried about your skill level, polish and skill will come after stepping out of the box. You can take this advice or leave it, but if you get anything out of this thread, at least rename your "generic" hack to something exciting enough that makes people play your work.

EDIT: Also just want to point out that I'm not exempting Kaizo hacking or displaying any bias towards it. In fact, there's a huge saturation of Kaizo hacks that basically copy Super Dram World. I would really love to see more creativity and unique style in that side of hacking as well.
You seem to be under the impression that the only reason to make a hack (or other piece of art) is for other people to see it and evaluate it. It's not.

Reasons to make something generic:
- The fun of making it. Most common reason.
- Practice.
- Some people do actually enjoy playing another thing similar to previous things.


And really, making something bad is always better than making nothing at all. There is something to be proud of when pooping out something godawful: finishing a project.


Your post comes off as discouraging rather than encouraging. I find it far more likely that anyone who reads it will decide to abandon their projects altogether rather than make something different. That's a really bad attitude to instill into others. Reveling in mediocrity is infinitely better than feeling ashamed of it. After all, the majority of us are mediocre. There's nothing wrong with that.
I feel like the multitude of 'generic' hacks are made just to get other people to play and evaluate, and ultimately, give them attention and praise. Why share your hack at all, otherwise?

Finishing a project is indeed an accomplishment of its own, but there are so many hacks to play here. A generic hack is unlikely to deserve my time. The ones that interest me are the ones people obviously put serious time into, that stand out from the large crowd. A generic hack can be really good, but most of them are really low effort, so associating your potential with a style of hack that isn't worth playing most of the time, does you no favors.

SMWC members who have helped make Ganymede the hack I want it to be
Maybe people are under the impression that naming something "generic" is more humble or something?

I don't really have an issue with the classic generic hacks such as 12 Orbs, and criticizing level names seems like a stretch. However, some hacks think that putting koopas on ledges with groups of 4 coin blocks means Nintendo-like design, which is not true. Play any smw level, and you'll see why that isn't correct.
Fun Fact I made a thread about this exact thing like five months ago and all I got was mes bitching at me about how I ignored every chocolate hack ever and how I accused everyone of making shovelware or smth

I mean what is the point of coming up with original romhacks when you can just make an original game in unity or GM am I right boys n gals
It's not like anyone has ever challenged themselves to work under limitations ever in their lives

Oldschool-style pixel art using a limited amount of colors?
Canvas paintings?
Why bother we have fucking sai and wacom cintiq tablets, using anything below that is pointless that's how art works right

I'm totally not bitter over how my thread got shat on /sarcasm

Also everyone's idea of "Nintendo level design" is fucking SMW and NSMB's world 1 level design mentality but for the whole game and it's like



This is like precisely why I stopped playing hacks other than collabs and JP shit lmao

oh and 12 orbs is overrated as all hell, i gave up at the cave world because the minecart stages were just sinful, seeing that the sequel is going to have 16 worlds of bland samey-ass vldc wannabe stages gave me a heart attack


I know I'm going batshit with this post but I am so done with SMWC's "we should never settle for anything higher than NSMB2 in terms of quality" mentality
There's a reason the mainstream still cares more about Brutal Mario demo 7, a romhack from ten years ago, than your Super Generic Vanilla World #114514 hack

I thought Massimo was garbo but I'd take offbeat weird ideas like that over most of the garbage everyone (new members exempted obv) is releasing nowadays

Originally posted by Kaijyuu
And really, making something bad is always better than making nothing at all. There is something to be proud of when pooping out something godawful: finishing a project.


Your post comes off as discouraging rather than encouraging. I find it far more likely that anyone who reads it will decide to abandon their projects altogether rather than make something different. That's a really bad attitude to instill into others. Reveling in mediocrity is infinitely better than feeling ashamed of it. After all, the majority of us are mediocre. There's nothing wrong with that.

mario vs. bowser and mighty no mediocrity

Like I dunno about you, but I'd rather have nothing over something that's garbage and pointless
source: sonic fan here, i've had my fill of shit games for the rest of my life

If you're never gonna better yourself and just settle for nothing but mediocrity due to your own laziness you should really just not bother releasing anything at all because no one will ever care
This is interesting

Just recently ive tried making my own hack. Its a pretty generic Kaizo hack ive made to learn Lunar Magic since ive never used it before.. ive added some exGFX and some visual effects, but its basically 90% vanilla. No new blocks, no custom sprites, no new music.
And i still heard people saying "it doesnt even feel like Mario" in not a good way, like it was a totally different game.

i guess some people just like and expect to play and see the same thing over and over again.
Originally posted by NaroGugul
This is interesting

Just recently ive tried making my own hack. Its a pretty generic Kaizo hack ive made to learn Lunar Magic since ive never used it before.. ive added some exGFX and some visual effects, but its basically 90% vanilla. No new blocks, no custom sprites, no new music.
And i still heard people saying "it doesnt even feel like Mario" in not a good way, like it was a totally different game.

i guess some people just like and expect to play and see the same thing over and over again.

If you want me to give you some advice, just follow your own flow and experiment with level design concepts (while keeping level design and presentation standards in mind).

Screwing up is okay, failure is a part of growth.
Just listen to feedback and always do your best.

EDIT: holy shit im whispy woods
This thread...

Originally posted by Aguni_
stop disliking what i like

Whats up with people who suck at designing games wanting the good games be nerfed just because they suck at making things look good.

There's bad hacks, play those instead. Don't try to take the creativity away from other people.

You gotta learn to crawl before learning to walk.
Originally posted by lion
Originally posted by Aguni_
stop disliking what i like

Whats up with people who suck at designing games wanting the good games be nerfed just because they suck at making things look good.

There's bad hacks, play those instead. Don't try to take the creativity away from other people.

You gotta learn to crawl before learning to walk.



also >>>/v/


Exactly what i said, now whats up with people who are good at designing games wanting to take away the simple stuff from people who just wants to play generic hacks?

Not everyone wants to play a level with some absurd gimmicks that no one has ever seen before.
why it have to be always on an extreme?! its either "generic" or "revolutionary". It doesnt have to be any of them.
Yoshiatom's Post
I feel like this issue is a double-edged sword; while there are people (me included) who want to see people make SMW hacks that take full advantage of all custom rescources the site has to offer and don't want to play overly same-y vanilla hacks, most people who want to make SMW hacks don't see it as "I need to make something new and revolutionary that redifines how we think about SMW", they see it as "I can make my own Mario levels? Sweet!" hence why you get hacks that mainly stick to trying to be vanilla Mario games.

Originally posted by NaroGugul
why it have to be always on an extreme?! its either "generic" or "revolutionary". It doesnt have to be any of them.


Maybe hacks that fit "in the middle of the road" are just ignored? I mean there are SMW hacks that try to use custom sprites blocks etc while still having traditional Mario-like level design.

Layout by Koopster!

<DeputyBS> I knew it
<DeputyBS> alcarobot is taking over the world through his truck dealership franchise
Originally posted by yoshiatom
I feel like this issue is a double-edged sword;

its not entirely a double edged sword though

Originally posted by yoshiatom
most people who want to make SMW hacks don't see it as "I need to make something new and revolutionary that redifines how we think about SMW", they see it as "I can make my own Mario levels? Sweet!" hence why you get hacks that mainly stick to trying to be vanilla Mario games.

Yes but have you even seen Mario Maker

Have you seen some of the batshit stages that get uploaded on there
You don't have to make generic ass romhacks with the dullest level design possible to make a Mario level

Being vanilla is not an excuse for not trying

Originally posted by yoshiatom
Maybe hacks that fit "in the middle of the road" are just ignored? I mean there are SMW hacks that try to use custom sprites blocks etc while still having traditional Mario-like level design.

It shouldn't be that way though
At the same time there's a definite push for creativity over good design going on right now. You can see in the vldcs where everyone is trying to find the newest thing to abuse to wow people but they're ignoring the whole fun part of the equation. I feel like there's definitely a negative to trying to be creative -above all else-

Fun should still take precedence over being revolutionary.

That said, I agree that some people don't really get the ideals of Nintendo-style design ethos and when they try to pull it off they get stuck making world-1 style levels for a whole hack, I've been guilty of it myself. There's a definite shift as the games go on that's hard to pick up on, or due to one-off gimmicks, hard to emulate with vanilla smw.

--------------------
Yoshiatom's Post
Originally posted by lion
Yes but have you even seen Mario Maker

Have you seen some of the batshit stages that get uploaded on there
You don't have to make generic ass romhacks with the dullest level design possible to make a Mario level

Being vanilla is not an excuse for not trying


I wasn't trying to say that no-one makes creative levels with vanilla limitations; even though there are utterly crazy SMM levels out there most SMM levels are (or at least try to be) typical Mario levels.

Originally posted by Teyla
At the same time there's a definite push for creativity over good design going on right now. You can see in the vldcs where everyone is trying to find the newest thing to abuse to wow people but they're ignoring the whole fun part of the equation. I feel like there's definitely a negative to trying to be creative -above all else-

Fun should still take precedence over being revolutionary.


THIS. THIS SO MUCH.

Like, I know recently with MaGMML2 the judges themselves said that some levels scored too high based on creativity alone and not being that fun in practise, and there's plently of hacks out there that only seem to show off custom content without actually being fun to play. (For example, Butal Mario and Rockman CX)

Layout by Koopster!

<DeputyBS> I knew it
<DeputyBS> alcarobot is taking over the world through his truck dealership franchise
ITT: SMWCentral only accepts top-tier creativity. All other hacks are bad and their creators clearly aren't trying hard enough.
Originally posted by Noivern
ITT: SMWCentral only accepts top-tier creativity. All other hacks are bad and their creators clearly aren't trying hard enough.

i almost mistook this for an aguni_ post for a sec there
But since you know that I'm not aguni_, maybe you can take it seriously, yes?

Originally posted by lion
I thought Massimo was garbo but I'd take offbeat weird ideas like that over most of the garbage everyone (new members exempted obv) is releasing nowadays

Originally posted by lion
Like I dunno about you, but I'd rather have nothing over something that's garbage and pointless
source: sonic fan here, i've had my fill of shit games for the rest of my life

Originally posted by lion
If you're never gonna better yourself and just settle for nothing but mediocrity due to your own laziness you should really just not bother releasing anything at all because no one will ever care

Originally posted by lion
You don't have to make generic ass romhacks with the dullest level design possible to make a Mario level


You can't take a giant dump on the whole site and not expect to have it pointed out.

I can't imagine being a new hacker, reading your posts in this thread, and thinking "hmm, I should really improve myself..." No, I would leave this community because this shit is toxic.
Originally posted by lion
Originally posted by Noivern
ITT: SMWCentral only accepts top-tier creativity. All other hacks are bad and their creators clearly aren't trying hard enough.

i almost mistook this for an aguni_ post for a sec there


Holding personal grudges because you didn't have an argument? LUL

This is a community, telling new people that they shouldn't make shit just because you don't like simple, vanilla hacks it's just being a douchebag.
i think some people in this thread assume good and memorable level design is attainable by only a select few hackers, the best of the best. the reality is, however, that there are so many analyses of what makes nintendo's level design so good that it ultimately comes down to learning from these principles, getting out of your comfort zone, and putting them into practice and i don't think that's gonna happen if you just set out to make a "just another generic" hack. when i made my vldc level in february, it was pretty obvious i didn't know what i was doing in terms of level design, but afterwards, i decided to study up more on what makes levels good and by the time oldc came around, i think it showed that i was starting to have a better grasp on these ideas, and now i'm making levels that i really like. that's what it seems like gbreeze's point was in making this thread: not to bring people down, but to encourage people to step outside their comfort zone for making levels.

in other words, don't give up, newbies! you can do it!
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 » Thread Closed
Forum Index - SMW Hacking - SMW Hacking Discussion - Why creating your next generic SMW hack is the worst thing you can do

The purpose of this site is not to distribute copyrighted material, but to honor one of our favourite games.

Copyright © 2005 - 2019 - SMW Central
Legal Information - Privacy Policy - Link To Us


Total queries: 7

Menu

Follow Us On

  • YouTube
  • Twitch
  • Twitter

Affiliates

  • SMBX Community
  • ROMhacking.net
  • MFGG