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Chocolate Level Design Contest 2018 - Discussion

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Level Design

I want to submit something, but something always happens wrong for some reason. I don't expect to win, but I hope a lot of people enter so we don't just get really good and professional entries b/c I don't know any ASM, and I want people to say good things about my level.

Do we have a good chance of doing well if we make a good vanilla ice cream cone level? I'm trying to think if my idea will be good, and I'm not sure if my partner is going to help me. One more question: Are we allowed to have other people test our level on here or make a Let's Play Kamek's Revenge to show people our level before we submit the final version?

Thanks and good luck to everyone.
Originally posted by Lespna1
One more question: Are we allowed to have other people test our level on here
yes
Originally posted by Lespna1
or make a Let's Play Kamek's Revenge to show people our level before we submit the final version?

I guess only if your level's called Kamek's Revenge. Otherwise the video would be clickbait. But yes
r̲̲̲̲̲̲̲̲a̲̲̲̲̲̲̲̲t̲̲̲̲̲̲̲̲s̲̲̲̲̲̲̲̲p̲̲̲̲̲̲̲a̲̲̲̲̲̲̲̲w̲̲̲̲̲̲̲̲n̲̲̲̲̲̲̲̲
madeulook
Define a "level".

If the player respawns at a different level (after reaching the midway point) when re-entering the overworld tile, BUT the game presents it all as the same level....does this still count as a (singular) LEVEL?
Originally posted by Hobz
Originally posted by Lespna1
One more question: Are we allowed to have other people test our level on here
yes
Originally posted by Lespna1
or make a Let's Play Kamek's Revenge to show people our level before we submit the final version?

I guess only if your level's called Kamek's Revenge. Otherwise the video would be clickbait. But yes


Oh, I meant a Youtube video. Sorry if it sounded like it was clickbait.
no problem Lespna, it's ok :)
r̲̲̲̲̲̲̲̲a̲̲̲̲̲̲̲̲t̲̲̲̲̲̲̲̲s̲̲̲̲̲̲̲̲p̲̲̲̲̲̲̲a̲̲̲̲̲̲̲̲w̲̲̲̲̲̲̲̲n̲̲̲̲̲̲̲̲
madeulook
How long level is too long?
(Is it better to have 3 10-screen levels or 3 20-screen levels?)

Are we allowed to provide resources for another person's entry and still do one ourselves?

----------------

I'm working on a hack! Check it out here.
Originally posted by imamelia
Are we allowed to provide resources for another person's entry and still do one ourselves?

If the "resources" in question aren't literally half the level, I'd say that's just fine. You just wouldn't be able to take any credit for it in the context of the contest, because then you'd have two entries.
So like, a sprite or two or a level gimmick are fine, half the level's worth of resources isn't.

e: Noivern thinks differently, so since he is a judge I would follow his post below.

Originally posted by Agent Q
Define a "level".

If the player respawns at a different level (after reaching the midway point) when re-entering the overworld tile, BUT the game presents it all as the same level....does this still count as a (singular) LEVEL?

As long as the player doesn't obviously move onto some other level via their own actions willingly, it's all one level until some sort of goal-looking thing is reached.
So yeah, if it's presented as one level it's one level.

Originally posted by Somebody for sure
How long level is too long?
(Is it better to have 3 10-screen levels or 3 20-screen levels?)

That highly depends on how fast you go through those screens. Measure your level's length by time spent playing rather than screen length. As with every contest, it should be noted that we're looking for levels, not entire worlds or hacks condensed into one stage. If it takes half an hour to beat your level blind, it's too long (or too hard).

Also, stop using gigantic text for no reason. No, making it slightly less large isn't great either, just leave it at default size. If you have trouble reading posts due to the font size being too small, hold Ctrl and hit the + key to zoom in.
Your layout has been removed.
Originally posted by Agent Q
If the player respawns at a different level (after reaching the midway point) when re-entering the overworld tile, BUT the game presents it all as the same level....does this still count as a (singular) LEVEL?


Only if the two levels are clearly linked, thematically or otherwise. If say, getting the midpoint in a cave level took you to a completely unrelated underwater level, that would be toeing the line of the whole "one level" thing and would likely be grounds for disqualification.


Originally posted by imamelia
Are we allowed to provide resources for another person's entry and still do one ourselves?


No. Providing resources to someone with the intention of helping them make an entry cleanly falls under the category of "working together with a partner".

BlindDevil told me it was fine. #smw{:TUP:}
Originally posted by Somebody for sure
How long level is too long?
(Is it better to have 3 10-screen levels or 3 20-screen levels?)


I know. That's what I was going to ask (along the lines of what Blond Devil meant by a gimmick overstating its welcome). Is there a time limit that the level should be to be good for the judges or something or just if the level like stretches and takes too long, then the judges will take away more points?
There isn't any defined time limit that could be classified as safe due to subjectivity - it's more of a suggestion to avoid making levels that would take too long to beat and could possibly be boring because of that, added to one or more design flaws. One could make a short but very hard level without checkpoints, in which deaths near the end are too punishing, thus being likely to score lower, or make a reasonably long yet engaging level which progresses nicely and doesn't feel "filler", being likely to score higher. Gameplay time falls under the presentation category while at the same time it can also affect the fun factor, but it's detail, just like functionality, aesthetics and cohesion, and they can be weighed similarly.

Anyway, and personally, I'd recommend to approach the overall SMW's default time limit in order to avoid said score loss possibility. Recommending is different than enforcing, though. So, if you feel comfortable in making a longer level, then go for it.

Originally posted by Lespna1
Blond Devil


i don't even have hair lol
MK2TDS
oh boy i'm super excited to join this contest. though i'm not too confident, color pallete wise. ever since i joined the smw central community i have always had trouble with this (i know there is a thread giving advice about it but it doesn't help.) what do you guys think of this palette?


I gotta stop reading these very old forums... they are really making me paranoid...
What about removing the timer completely?
Super Mario Travelers

It's okay to remove it. Mind that, by gameplay time, it considers as the average time to effectively beat the level. If you, for example, wish to encourage exploration in your level, you can do so despite having a set time limit or not - in the end it all depends on how the player progresses.
MK2TDS
are fake partners allowed

like crediting someone as a partner (and thus them also receiving the trophy/whatever if victory is achieved), but in reality they did nothing or are not even aware of the contest
I'll go ahead and start my new level...even there's actually a birthday month ahead!
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This would be the first time I would actually do a submission for a contest... so I'm not really familiar with the specifics of a Chocolate Contest. I know kind of the rules of the VLDC's (in which I wanted to do something too, but it was way too late when I got aware of that), but I'm not sure if the VLDC and CLDC are mainly similar or a total different thing.

Anyway, I have the following questions:

Is there some sort of "base patch" like in VLDC or are we free to choose what patches we want to use, as long as the submission can be played with the patch in the end?

Is there a limit on custom stuff (like are we not allowed to change Marios GFX etc.)? Probably this is a dumb question but how far can the entry be custom/chocolate? Are there things I shouldn't change?


Not sure if I'm going to have the time/motivation to finish an entry, but I can try to do something... even if I know I wouldn't have any chance of winning.
Originally posted by Hiro-sofT
Is there some sort of "base patch" like in VLDC or are we free to choose what patches we want to use, as long as the submission can be played with the patch in the end?


No, there's no base patch. This means that you are free to implement your own.

Originally posted by Hiro-sofT
Is there a limit on custom stuff (like are we not allowed to change Marios GFX etc.)? Probably this is a dumb question but how far can the entry be custom/chocolate? Are there things I shouldn't change?


You can go as far as you want with them. You can change graphics, physics and anything else, too - as long as the level is still played in its default game mode* (as in, title screen/overworld/non-level gimmicks aren't evaluated).

*just a clarification that custom game modes are allowed, as long as they play a fitting role in the entry.
MK2TDS
Ah... that actually answers some of my questions. I have still a few questions (probably really dumb ones):

Is it actually possible to work with someone on this, who isn't registered on SMWC? My brother would join me in making a level for this, but he isn't registered here.

As far as I got it, only the level itself counts (as it's a level design contest) so we can make the title screen and OWs as simple as we want (for example just put one level point on the OW and fill it out with water tiles). The main priority is that you can get into the level we made, right?

And this from the rules thread:
Originally posted by Blind Devil
Are there any graphical/musical clashes?

I'm not sure what exactly a musical clash means now... does it mean, that the music styles need to fit with each other (also not something like having Mega Man 3 rock music and Zelda a link to the past orchestra music in the level) or does this just means picking a fitting music, depending on the current situation (like how a cheerful love song wouldn't fit a horrific chase sequence). Is it now that I should pick music that are in a similar style or just music that fits to the theme/sequence of the level?
Originally posted by Hiro-sofT
Is it actually possible to work with someone on this, who isn't registered on SMWC?


Yes, it's possible.

Originally posted by Hiro-sofT
As far as I got it, only the level itself counts (as it's a level design contest) so we can make the title screen and OWs as simple as we want (for example just put one level point on the OW and fill it out with water tiles). The main priority is that you can get into the level we made, right?


Yep, only the level will be evaluated. You can keep the title screen/overworld intact. Just make sure your entry level can be accessed.

And about musical clashes, that means if the music/ambiance fits the theme for the level. For example, an 8-bit-ish level that uses a realistically sampled song can be considered clashy. Also, custom SFX/sample usage are also evaluated, but more in a way that we check if they aren't broken (for example, if the default coin SFX gets messed up because a sample was badly replaced, points can be deducted from presentation).
MK2TDS

Level Design

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