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Chocolate Level Design Contest 2018 - Discussion

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Level Design

I definitely doubt the judges are going to take into account whether or not a specific person/Youtuber was able to finish your level, that's a pretty subjective way to measure its quality.

As long as the difficulty isn't outright unfair as opposed to just being "kind of hard" then that's no issue..
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How would the judges even measure that?

"This level is fantastic, but I don't think raocow can finish this. 33/60"
We have many judges so *they* can critique the level based on how they, themselves, feel about it.

Being subjective with your own feelings is fine, because in the end that's what art kind of is about. That's one of the factors in any art critique alongside the appraisal of what the intended audience (aka *who* would enjoy a given level or game) would be.

But you can't just arbitrarily have each judge base their judging considering *one* person - yes, even if that person is raocow. If you did that, variety in art would flat out die tomorrow.

Difficulty will always be a divise spectrum by its very nature. Go on either extreme and you'll end up excluding a hell of a lot of people.

But things that are super difficult aren't bad because they are super difficult. Of course, a level in which you will die over and over will logically have a player exposed to for exponential amounts of time longer than an easier one. With that much more time of exposure, the experience becomes much bolder in one of two ways - either the experience gets worse and worse with each life spent, or the experience gets better and better. Someone who designs super hard stuff will strive to make the latter happen - but just because your level is hard does not mean that it automatically is more satisfying to play. You have to use difficulty in synergy with smart ideas to make your player engaged in mastering the obstacles; things like giving them the agency to learn how to keep a hit point for longer and the likes is only scratching the surface!
Originally posted by Mandew
We have many judges so *they* can critique the level based on how they, themselves, feel about it.

Being subjective with your own feelings is fine, because in the end that's what art kind of is about. That's one of the factors in any art critique alongside the appraisal of what the intended audience (aka *who* would enjoy a given level or game) would be.

But you can't just arbitrarily have each judge base their judging considering *one* person - yes, even if that person is raocow. If you did that, variety in art would flat out die tomorrow.

Difficulty will always be a divise spectrum by its very nature. Go on either extreme and you'll end up excluding a hell of a lot of people.

But things that are super difficult aren't bad because they are super difficult. Of course, a level in which you will die over and over will logically have a player exposed to for exponential amounts of time longer than an easier one. With that much more time of exposure, the experience becomes much bolder in one of two ways - either the experience gets worse and worse with each life spent, or the experience gets better and better. Someone who designs super hard stuff will strive to make the latter happen - but just because your level is hard does not mean that it automatically is more satisfying to play. You have to use difficulty in synergy with smart ideas to make your player engaged in mastering the obstacles; things like giving them the agency to learn how to keep a hit point for longer and the likes is only scratching the surface!


I was just asking b/c I think they said that's how they did it last time, and last time I did the math problems. Raocow had trouble w/it.
Oh right, I forgot I wanted to submit something for this. Thank god for delays. I guess I can take some old junk and polish it up for the contest.
Originally posted by Gregor
Oh right, I forgot I wanted to submit something for this. Thank god for delays. I guess I can take some old junk and polish it up for the contest.


If we find 200 other people, which only submit something to participate, without any other aims we´ll get a 2nd VLDCX.

Please at least try to submit something decent. 100 uncreative, generic "junk-levels" will ruin the fun for the judges.








Originally posted by Sariel
If we find 200 other people, which only submit something to participate, without any other aims we´ll get a 2nd VLDCX.

kek

Originally posted by Sariel
Please at least try to submit something decent. 100 uncreative, generic "junk-levels" will ruin the fun for the judges.

Relax, I was planning on submitting something at least halfway decent. It was just a small joke.
all entries are bundled up here

you can also just download individual ones here

they all have codenames so you'll have to refer to this to know who did what. i thought itd be more fun than just using dumb numbers to anonymize them.
Will we get updates on the judging as it happens? Or do we have to wait until the judging is done to get information on judges' opinions?
I, for one, will be often updating my title with the number of submissions judged. But all comments and scores will only be made public when all judges are done with all entries.
MK2TDS
I do not expect to win this or even get top 10. But I am interested to see where I DO place when this is all over, and hope I did well.

I know there are levels better than mine for sure; at least, they are better in my opinion. But, I don't expect I did the worst, either. If I could timetravel and skip straight to the end of judging to see the results, I would, because I am certainly excited to see how everyone did.

Originally posted by Blind Devil
I, for one, will be often updating my title with the number of submissions judged. But all comments and scores will only be made public when all judges are done with all entries.

Good enough for me. At least this gives me an estimated timeline.

It's been 3 days, status currently says 6/35, for an average of 2 per day, but I can't assume all will be judged at the same speed; longer levels may take longer. An estimate puts the results at the end of the month, which definitely works for me, and is exciting. I would probably be much slower...
Oh I totally forgot - some judges in other contests used to record livestreams including comments and scores, and that's also possible for this one (not from my part but maybe from others'). Do take in mind that scores are subject to change until they're officialy published, though.
MK2TDS
Originally posted by idol

I liked the codenames according to the theme of each level, really, a sequence of boring numbers would not be very good. :O
Originally posted by Manofer
Originally posted by idol

I liked the codenames according to the theme of each level, really, a sequence of boring numbers would not be very good. :O

Not all of the codenames fit the themes, but that's fine. I'm not complaining about MY codename.
Originally posted by Flabort
Originally posted by Manofer
Originally posted by idol

I liked the codenames according to the theme of each level, really, a sequence of boring numbers would not be very good. :O

Not all of the codenames fit the themes, but that's fine. I'm not complaining about MY codename.

hm
Eeeee! I can't wait for the results. :D I'm excited to see the judge's favorites, and their criticisms.

The 30/35 in Blind Devil's title is making me antsy. At this point, there's only 5 left for him (no news from the other judges yet), which means pick any given level and the odds that he's played and judged it are higher than the odds he hasn't. I'm on the edge of my seat waiting for the results.

If the other judges have recorded livestreams, I haven't seen them, but I don't really want to see them; I want to wait until the results are published to see the scores.
Let's not get too antsy P:

There's no guarantee that other judges even got started. You have to be patient and mind that, under ideal conditions, judging for such small contests usually takes 4 months or so, otherwise the judges are at risk of being too pressured and the judging quality will suffer as a result

Don't expect the results until next July, is what I would say. And if they're not out by July, don't expect them until September.
I'm not at all anxious. As I said, my level was very short due to lack of time and lack of ideas and it will be very difficult for him to stay in a good position.
Luckily I have some ideas in mind for the VLDCX and I hope to be faster. (That's if there really is VLDCX this year)
The X was the roman numeral for 10. The next would be 11 (or XI).
Originally posted by Zandro
The X was the roman numeral for 10. The next would be 11 (or XI).

Is this serious? I thought the X was an unknown number lol.

Level Design

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