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Lunar Magic suggestions and discussion (LM v3.31)
Forum Index - SMW Hacking - Resource & Tool Releases - Lunar Magic suggestions and discussion (LM v3.31)
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Yeah, the same could be said for the sprite Map16 data.


In fairness it could probably be made an editor setting, right? Just one that's turned off by default so it doesn't confuse newcomers, but leaves the option available for those that know what they're doing.

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Originally posted by AnasMario130
1) Let us select multiple copies of the exact same color in the palette editor so that any change we make to any copy of said color applies to the other copies. This is useful for, say, editing the palette of a layer 3 BG where some of the same colors are spread out through different palettes. As of right now, doing so manually is quite confusing.


That's as simple as using a control-left click to copy and right clicking where you want to paste. Doing it the way you described mostly just changes the order of the clicking and which mouse button you're using.

Originally posted by AnasMario130
2) Make it so that all the separate text boxes where you enter the animation or palette frames in both the global and local ExAnimation windows are one giant text box like in the direct Map16 remapping window so that editing, copying, and pasting all our frames will be much quicker. Of course, each frame should be separated by a comma.


I suppose it'd be better in some ways, like if you wanted to copy your animated frames to a text file or shuffle them around. But if you lose the grid view and have a lot of frames, it can get harder to figure out which number is for which frame.

Or I could throw in a button to switch between both views. The question is, would the new view get enough use to be worth putting in.

Originally posted by AnasMario130
It would also be even quicker if the color or animation frames we select through the palette or 8x8 tile editors are automatically added to the text box.


You can already control-left click to copy a color to the clipboard in the palette editor then paste it as text. I could maybe do something similar with copy in the 8x8 tile selector of the Map16 editor...

Originally posted by Anorakun
I'm not sure if it's feasible, but I would like the 8x8 editor to let me see all the tiles by default. Maybe this was asked before, but I find a bit of a hassle always have to put CTRL + SHIFT + DOWN. If is not possible, why is the reason that we need to put that command to access internal GFX Data? Just out of curiosity.


It's mainly to avoid newbie issues. It's an 8x8 tile editor, yet it doesn't actually edit those other tiles. It ended up serving a dual role as a tile viewer, from before the 8x8 tile selector of the Map16 editor existed.

Though ironically it probably causes a bit of an issue when people new to the program wonder how to view the source animated tiles and don't bother reading the help file.

Originally posted by imamelia
Yeah, the same could be said for the sprite Map16 data.


Mostly the same thing. When some people first see the sprite Map16 they think they can edit the sprites in the game with it, when it's just meant for display in LM.

Originally posted by Thomas
In fairness it could probably be made an editor setting, right? Just one that's turned off by default so it doesn't confuse newcomers, but leaves the option available for those that know what they're doing.


Yes, that's what I'm thinking.


Speaking of options, does anyone bother to turn off the "Display Menu for Zoom Buttons" option these days? I originally put that one in for people used to the old behavior from back when LM only had x2 zoom with no menu on the button. But that was quite a while ago and I've been thinking lately the option for turning it off can probably go away now.
I'm gonna be honest I didn't even realize turning it off was an option, but I also never looked for an option to turn it off since it doesn't impact anything.
Fanatical like a Demon
Was hoping of maybe adding a function copying specific slots in exanimation for pasting them in different levels rather than only copying 1 or copying all. Say if I have 10 slots of exanimation but only need 1,2,7, and 9 it'd be easier to be able to multicopy those and paste them rather than do it one by one or doing it all and manually deleting the ones I don't need. It could manually reorder those slots too so it'd now be 1 thru 4. Another thing that I run into a lot (accidentally) is when importing multiple levels but I forget to insert all exgfx prior and have endless messages prompts I have to okay spanning multiple levels. I think it'd be nice to maybe put an option like "do this for all future messages etc" option similar to when copy pasting multiple files on windows. Definitely better than spamming enter over and over until the importing process is finished.

EDIT: Forgot to ask for this one. It may be a far stretch, but what about giving users the freedom to edit the 3rd party patches that have been integrated into LM? Like for me, it was a pain constantly hunting down the hijack for the layer 2 palette in caves. I was only able to find it bc the VRAM plus patch is public and really hasn't been changed at all by LM so I could just follow from the initial hijack and follow all those JSL's. It'd be nice to be able to have the freedom of editing those 3rd party patches (not including the LM asm hacks by you tho that'd be also nice but they seem to always be in the same place so eh).
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For the above, but omit the whole "Reorder" part as some people actually utilize the Exanimation Frame Engine that is incorporated. There's actually a lot of reasons why some people will put an ExAnimation in a specific slot, so reordering the slots would cause a lot of issues for those who want an exanimation in say, Slot 00, 08, 10 and 18, and others in 01, 09, 11, 19, and etc.
Fanatical like a Demon
Originally posted by Skewer
For the above, but omit the whole "Reorder" part as some people actually utilize the Exanimation Frame Engine that is incorporated. There's actually a lot of reasons why some people will put an ExAnimation in a specific slot, so reordering the slots would cause a lot of issues for those who want an exanimation in say, Slot 00, 08, 10 and 18, and others in 01, 09, 11, 19, and etc.

I guess adding a checkbox in either the LM options would suffice?
Major thanks to Suika Ibuki for layout!
SMAS Soundtrack Status: 100% finished
YI Soundtrack Status: 100%
YI Unsampled Soundtrack Status: 100%
NSMB Soundtrack Status: 7.89%
Killer Instinct Soundtrack Status: 14.63%
SPC Thread
From our family to you, keep your pants dry, your dreams wet, and remember, hugs not drugs.
Not sure if it's been mentioned before or if it's intended behavior: for secondary entrances in tall horizontal levels, the screen numbers in the dialog don't match with those shown in the level editor. When I place a secondary entrance at screen 1D it won't show up, and when I place it in screen 0 and then move it to 1D, the dialog ends up saying "screen 0" and "Y position 32C".

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Originally posted by LadiesMan217
Was hoping of maybe adding a function copying specific slots in exanimation for pasting them in different levels rather than only copying 1 or copying all.


With 2 copies of LM open, you can use the copy button to copy a slot from one to paste into the other. It doesn't take very long.

Originally posted by LadiesMan217
Another thing that I run into a lot (accidentally) is when importing multiple levels but I forget to insert all exgfx prior and have endless messages prompts I have to okay spanning multiple levels. I think it'd be nice to maybe put an option like "do this for all future messages etc" option similar to when copy pasting multiple files on windows. Definitely better than spamming enter over and over until the importing process is finished.


Maybe, but you can just hold down escape to abort the current insertion, insert the graphics, then redo the level insertion.

Originally posted by LadiesMan217
Forgot to ask for this one. It may be a far stretch, but what about giving users the freedom to edit the 3rd party patches that have been integrated into LM? Like for me, it was a pain constantly hunting down the hijack for the layer 2 palette in caves. I was only able to find it bc the VRAM plus patch is public and really hasn't been changed at all by LM so I could just follow from the initial hijack and follow all those JSL's. It'd be nice to be able to have the freedom of editing those 3rd party patches (not including the LM asm hacks by you tho that'd be also nice but they seem to always be in the same place so eh).


No I'm not going to create a second patching system just for a couple patches. Also note that the VRAM patch has been tweaked/fixed more often than any other patch in LM.

Originally posted by WhiteYoshiEgg
Not sure if it's been mentioned before or if it's intended behavior: for secondary entrances in tall horizontal levels, the screen numbers in the dialog don't match with those shown in the level editor. When I place a secondary entrance at screen 1D it won't show up, and when I place it in screen 0 and then move it to 1D, the dialog ends up saying "screen 0" and "Y position 32C".


"Screen Exits" are not always the same thing as "Screens" in horizontal levels since LM 3.00+. Screen exits are only used by exits, everything else in horizontal levels including entrances goes by horizontal screens. Use "F2" to view both screens and subscreens.
Not sure if anyone else occasionally runs into this problem but I sometimes forget to check off Enable Custom Palette in the Palette Editor, and end up editing a bunch of shared palettes without realizing I'm doing so. Maybe an optional warning message that the user is about to edit a shared palette?
Are there any plans for Lunar Magic to support other background modes? I wouldn't think 0 and 3 would be that hard, since they don't have any extra specific features. 2 and 4 would require implementing proper interaction for the offset-per-tile stuff. 5 might not be that bad either, depending on how Map16 tiles would be affected by the hi-res display. 6 would require both the OPT and hi-res stuff, but only for one layer. 7 is technically already in SMW, just with a lot of funky boss-specific stuff.
Originally posted by Golden Yoshi
Not sure if anyone else occasionally runs into this problem but I sometimes forget to check off Enable Custom Palette in the Palette Editor, and end up editing a bunch of shared palettes without realizing I'm doing so. Maybe an optional warning message that the user is about to edit a shared palette?


Yes that's probably happened to a few people on occasion, as wanting to edit custom palettes tends to be more common than editing the shared ones. Rather than a warning option though, I've sometimes thought an "auto-enable custom palette on edit" option would be more useful.

Originally posted by imamelia
Are there any plans for Lunar Magic to support other background modes?


No plans at the moment, though there's already unofficial support for mode 0 with the first 2bpp mode in LM.
Originally posted by FuSoYa
Originally posted by Golden Yoshi
Not sure if anyone else occasionally runs into this problem but I sometimes forget to check off Enable Custom Palette in the Palette Editor, and end up editing a bunch of shared palettes without realizing I'm doing so. Maybe an optional warning message that the user is about to edit a shared palette?


Yes that's probably happened to a few people on occasion, as wanting to edit custom palettes tends to be more common than editing the shared ones. Rather than a warning option though, I've sometimes thought an "auto-enable custom palette on edit" option would be more useful.


Yea I think that could be helpful.
One thing I think would help a lot for people who make large hacks would be the ability to tell the level to get its palette data from another level; that way if one level is using an exact copy of the palette from another, it would save quite a good bit of data in the long run. Sometimes in large hacks, every bit of space you can manage to save will help a lot in the long run. Same can be said for ExAnimations.
Originally posted by FuSoYa
Originally posted by AnasMario130
1) Let us select multiple copies of the exact same color in the palette editor so that any change we make to any copy of said color applies to the other copies. This is useful for, say, editing the palette of a layer 3 BG where some of the same colors are spread out through different palettes. As of right now, doing so manually is quite confusing.


That's as simple as using a control-left click to copy and right clicking where you want to paste. Doing it the way you described mostly just changes the order of the clicking and which mouse button you're using.

Originally posted by AnasMario130
2) Make it so that all the separate text boxes where you enter the animation or palette frames in both the global and local ExAnimation windows are one giant text box like in the direct Map16 remapping window so that editing, copying, and pasting all our frames will be much quicker. Of course, each frame should be separated by a comma.


I suppose it'd be better in some ways, like if you wanted to copy your animated frames to a text file or shuffle them around. But if you lose the grid view and have a lot of frames, it can get harder to figure out which number is for which frame.

Or I could throw in a button to switch between both views. The question is, would the new view get enough use to be worth putting in.

Originally posted by AnasMario130
It would also be even quicker if the color or animation frames we select through the palette or 8x8 tile editors are automatically added to the text box.


You can already control-left click to copy a color to the clipboard in the palette editor then paste it as text. I could maybe do something similar with copy in the 8x8 tile selector of the Map16 editor...


Very, very late reply here, but as for the the first suggestion in this quote, you may have misunderstood me. Allow me to reiterate: this suggestion is meant to save time and avoid confusion in editing different copies of the same color spread out through different palettes in very complex L3 BGs. To do this, one should use, say, use Space + left click on a certain color, and if there are copies of that exact same color throughout the entire palette, those copies will be highlighted. Then, once you edit the color you selected, that edit will apply to all the other copies. Simple concept, no?

As for the second one, why would the new dialog not be worth be using? It's meant to a convenient alternative to the current ExAnimation dialog. A button to switch between the view would be very nice-- after all, options are options.

As for the third and last suggestion, I never actually knew you could copy colors as text. But it should be automatic, of course. Same should go for the 8x8 tile viewer for ExAnimation.

--------------------
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Originally posted by Skewer
One thing I think would help a lot for people who make large hacks would be the ability to tell the level to get its palette data from another level; that way if one level is using an exact copy of the palette from another, it would save quite a good bit of data in the long run. Sometimes in large hacks, every bit of space you can manage to save will help a lot in the long run. Same can be said for ExAnimations.


Maybe, though you may not save as much as you think. Palettes don't take a whole lot of space compared to graphics, and neither do animated frame references.

Originally posted by Anas
Very, very late reply here, but as for the the first suggestion in this quote, you may have misunderstood me. Allow me to reiterate: this suggestion is meant to save time and avoid confusion in editing different copies of the same color spread out through different palettes in very complex L3 BGs. To do this, one should use, say, use Space + left click on a certain color, and if there are copies of that exact same color throughout the entire palette, those copies will be highlighted. Then, once you edit the color you selected, that edit will apply to all the other copies. Simple concept, no?


Oh, I understood what it was for alright. The part you should have been more specific on was the implementation. I thought you meant selecting each color one by one, then editing one color to apply to all of them. Not having the program detect all the copies of the color for you.

I'd have to think about that one, since you're still only saving a handful of clicks (unless you're in the habit of tweaking the same colors over and over and viewing the results to get what you want).

Originally posted by Anas
As for the second one, why would the new dialog not be worth be using? It's meant to a convenient alternative to the current ExAnimation dialog. A button to switch between the view would be very nice-- after all, options are options.


I didn't ask if it was worth using, I asked if it would get enough use to be worth putting in. Options and code don't create and maintain themselves, and my free time for doing so is not infinite.

And there are of course other considerations like UI clutter and keeping things simple. More is not always better.

Originally posted by Anas
As for the third and last suggestion, I never actually knew you could copy colors as text. But it should be automatic, of course. Same should go for the 8x8 tile viewer for ExAnimation.


I think you had better be more specific as to what you mean by "automatic". Remember, implementation matters.
Originally posted by FuSoYa
Maybe, though you may not save as much as you think. Palettes don't take a whole lot of space compared to graphics, and neither do animated frame references.
Perhaps so, but counter point: I've filled roms up to the brim with data and information, that often enough I have had to go through levels and optimize them as best as I can, often turning levels that are unused into 0x18 KB's of data; turning off custom palettes where possible; even saving up to 0x200 is worth it in my opinion.

Often enough when I finish making levels, they can come up to this many bytes: "0x1139 bytes"; and coupled with ASM, music, custom sprites/blocks, etc... you'll find that your space gets eaten up by level data very quickly. Likewise, if I turn off my ExAnimations and Custom Palettes, that same level takes up...

"0xEAF bytes", which in decimal is 650 bytes, or 28A in hex, which is almost a background's worth of data.

Now, this might not seem like a lot, but hear me out on this; imagine making a 70+ exit hack where each level takes up around this many bytes, and single room levels like bonus rooms and what not taking up about 0x600+ because of background information, palette, etc. If there was a way for levels to "use" the information of other levels, like background tile arrangement, palette information or exanimation arrangement, each level could save up to 0x400+, especially given backgrounds take up around 0x300+ bytes of information; this would end up freeing a significant amount of space.

Sure it won't look good in the editor to look at an empty background or at a default palette that clearly doesn't work with the graphics, but when it comes to advanced features like something like this, I don't think level creators would care too much.
Perhaps there could be more support for manually specifying a level's insertion address? That would allow the end user to overwrite the original level data and things like original backgrounds and bosses if they're not using them.
Originally posted by Skewer
Perhaps so, but counter point: I've filled roms up to the brim with data and information


You should probably first verify that you don't have a free space leak from some tool or patch. You can check by porting everything to another ROM. If the amount of free space is vastly different afterwards, then you have a leak.

But if it turns out you really are just using up that much space, we do have support for 6 and 8 MB SA-1 ROMs available.

Originally posted by Skewer
often enough I have had to go through levels and optimize them as best as I can, often turning levels that are unused into 0x18 KB's of data;


If you're not using a level number, just don't ever save it. That takes up 0 bytes in the expanded area of the ROM (assuming you haven't used the "Clear Original Level Data Area" command).

Originally posted by Skewer
Now, this might not seem like a lot, but hear me out on this; imagine making a 70+ exit hack where each level takes up around this many bytes, and single room levels like bonus rooms and what not taking up about 0x600+ because of background information, palette, etc. If there was a way for levels to "use" the information of other levels, like background tile arrangement, palette information or exanimation arrangement, each level could save up to 0x400+, especially given backgrounds take up around 0x300+ bytes of information; this would end up freeing a significant amount of space.


The actual savings will depend on how many of those levels really do use the same palette, etc. That's going to vary from hack to hack. When you take into account the fact that adding another level also usually means using more ExGFX and possibly other resources, you're probably only looking at saving a few levels worth of space in the average hack. Space that the average hack already doesn't run out of.

Not that I might not add something for it at some point, as it has crossed my mind before. Though if it turns out you really do have a free space leak, this won't save you.

Originally posted by imamelia
Perhaps there could be more support for manually specifying a level's insertion address? That would allow the end user to overwrite the original level data and things like original backgrounds and bosses if they're not using them.


No, I'm not going back to the early LM 1.00 days of being able to overwrite arbitrary ROM data. That's just asking for trouble.

If they want to use that area, they can always ask LM to clear out the original level data then reuse it for something else.
Originally posted by FuSoYa
Originally posted by Anas
Very, very late reply here, but as for the the first suggestion in this quote, you may have misunderstood me. Allow me to reiterate: this suggestion is meant to save time and avoid confusion in editing different copies of the same color spread out through different palettes in very complex L3 BGs. To do this, one should use, say, use Space + left click on a certain color, and if there are copies of that exact same color throughout the entire palette, those copies will be highlighted. Then, once you edit the color you selected, that edit will apply to all the other copies. Simple concept, no?


Oh, I understood what it was for alright. The part you should have been more specific on was the implementation. I thought you meant selecting each color one by one, then editing one color to apply to all of them. Not having the program detect all the copies of the color for you.

I'd have to think about that one, since you're still only saving a handful of clicks (unless you're in the habit of tweaking the same colors over and over and viewing the results to get what you want).

Originally posted by Anas
As for the second one, why would the new dialog not be worth be using? It's meant to a convenient alternative to the current ExAnimation dialog. A button to switch between the view would be very nice-- after all, options are options.


I didn't ask if it was worth using, I asked if it would get enough use to be worth putting in. Options and code don't create and maintain themselves, and my free time for doing so is not infinite.

And there are of course other considerations like UI clutter and keeping things simple. More is not always better.

Originally posted by Anas
As for the third and last suggestion, I never actually knew you could copy colors as text. But it should be automatic, of course. Same should go for the 8x8 tile viewer for ExAnimation.


I think you had better be more specific as to what you mean by "automatic". Remember, implementation matters.


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Again, pardon me for the 13-day-late reply, but as for the second quote, I misunderstood you in the first place. Anyway, I think the new ExAnim. dialogue would be useful enough to warrant putting in.

As for the third and last quote, by 'automatic', I mean that if you select a certain color or tile for copying, it should automatically go into the necessary ExAnim. frame text box. I hope I didn't misword myself once again.

--------------------
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My Discord server. It has a lot of archived ASM stuff, so check that out!

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