Lunar Magic suggestions and discussion (LM v3.51) - Resource & Tool Releases

Vitor: Huh. What are those addresses the equivalents of in the vanilla game? I assume that two of them are equivalent to $00BE60 and $00BA9C, at least? I assume the Layer 2 tables are only half as long because Layer 2 levels only have half as many screens.

FuSoYa: Can secret exits 2 and 3 be triggered by setting $141C to 02/03 or $0DD5 to 03/04?

Both: Will we get some new information about used RAM addresses submitted to the memory map as well?

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I'm working on a hack! Check it out here. Progress: 64/95 levels.

Originally posted by imamelia

FuSoYa: Can secret exits 2 and 3 be triggered by setting $141C to 02/03 or $0DD5 to 03/04?

Yes.

Originally posted by imamelia

Both: Will we get some new information about used RAM addresses submitted to the memory map as well?

I thought they didn't want stuff like that added to the RAM map, and that the existing entries were just grandfathered in.

Originally posted by imamelia

Vitor: Huh. What are those addresses the equivalents of in the vanilla game? I assume that two of them are equivalent to $00BE60 and $00BA9C, at least? I assume the Layer 2 tables are only half as long because Layer 2 levels only have half as many screens.

Yeah. Layer 2 tables are shared with Layer 1 to reduce free RAM usage and the table is built differently when the level is either layer 1+2 or layer 1+3.

The equivalent are the huge tables from $00BA60 though $00BDA7. All of the horizontal ones are remapped to the RAM.

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Originally posted by FuSoYa

Originally posted by WhiteYoshiEgg

The reason I found those is a bug I'd like to report: when the main LM window is maximized, the right edge of the inner window is visible (instead of a scrollbar, or the lack of one.)

Can't replicate. Are you running LM with something non-standard (unofficial themes/WindowBlinds/Wine/etc)?

Ah, I actually am (a .manifest file to give controls a modern look). On the other hand, the screenshot I made is with that disabled, and now I can't replicate the effect either way, which is... strange?

It's nothing to worry about in any case. I just figured if it'd been an oversight that's replicable and easy to fix I might as well let you know.

Originally posted by FuSoYa

As the sprite tooltip says, for Y=0 (scroll range 12) you're supposed to set the BG init position to 0 (Absolute 0 in the new system... note that isn't the same thing as the BG= +00 setting). And yes, that means you'll only see the top screen or so of layer 2 visible at any time... that's what the sprite was made for.

The range 5 one you might have to start Mario near the top of the level to use. And again, you'll only see the top screen or so of layer 2.

Remember that just like with the tides, you're not meant to be able to scroll vertically with those. Not even in the original horizontal levels. Going by your screenshot, you might need to code a custom sprite for the effect you're really looking for, or modify the original sprite to support vertical scroll.

Thanks for the clarification! That makes sense. What I showed isn't my intended setup anyway - I was just messing around looking for obvious ways to break the system, and apparently I had forgotten layer 2 commands don't go well with vertical scrolling.

Originally posted by Vitor Vilela

LM 3.00 was made for keeping maximum compatibility possible. If it would require a remoderation I would not even have proposed to FuSoYa my ExLevel and ExSprites patches.

(Somehow) unrelated question: Will the code of these patches be published? Or is the official stance: What happens in LM stays in LM? How much does it depend on (closed source) patches from LM?

Asking for a friend.

Your layout has been removed.

Originally posted by Horrowind

Or is the official stance: What happens in LM stays in LM?

I don't know.

Originally posted by Horrowind

Will the code of these patches be published?

Sure, anyone can PM me asking for the implementation details. Thinking also on eventually publishing on my SMWCodeLib repository as well.

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Asking for a friend.

I wouldn't mind if you use my patches in your SMW level editor. Just ask ;)

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Why can't you just post the details instead of saying "anyone who PMs me can get them"

Originally posted by randomdude999

Why can't you just post the details instead of saying "anyone who PMs me can get them"

He did tho.

Your layout has been removed.

That's only pointer table changes and ram defines, not the actual asm.

Originally posted by randomdude999

That's only pointer table changes and ram defines, not the actual asm.

Tell us exactly what you need so we can flesh out the docs to better fit your needs.

If you just want the code for the sake of it, I don't really recall any LM updates that released its asm code anywhere.

Also it's not like the code isn't anywhere to be seen... worst case scenario you just gotta ask around like a whole load of stuff in this community. Better than the usual disassembly it yourself answer right?

Your layout has been removed.

I noticed that the mouse wheel doesn't work when trying to place highlighted objects behind pre-existing objects. It works in previous versions except 3.00 as all it does is move the scroll bars. I even looked in the "Lunar Magic Help" but it says it works the same way still so...

E: Oh well... it works now? That's so weird huh.

Want progress on 100 Rooms of Enemies: The Nightmare Edition? Go here to see.

(rip my other userbars momentarily)

What a fabulous update. Thank you for the many years of hard work you've put in.

Originally posted by FuSoYa

Originally posted by imamelia

Both: Will we get some new information about used RAM addresses submitted to the memory map as well?

I thought they didn't want stuff like that added to the RAM map, and that the existing entries were just grandfathered in.

I think that rule might have been changed, given the entries for $13D7, $145E, and $03BA02 among others.

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I'm working on a hack! Check it out here. Progress: 64/95 levels.

I don't think nobody has reported it yet but...

"No-Yoshi" intros are broken in every instance of vertical levels (Level Modes 7, 8, A and D), the FG doesn't appear at all, and it gets replaced by a row of question blocks. This applies to all Indexes with No-Yoshi intros (Castle, Ghost House and all Ropes).

Layout made by MaxodeX

Originally posted by Daizo Dee Von

I noticed that the mouse wheel doesn't work when trying to place highlighted objects behind pre-existing objects.
E: Oh well... it works now? That's so weird huh.

Possibly just a sticky shift key on your keyboard. In 3.00 holding it down can now make scrolling take precedence over changing object Z-ordering.

Edit: Actually I just encountered what you probably did and located the issue. Thanks, it's been fixed for the next version.

Originally posted by Shiny Ninetales

I don't think nobody has reported it yet but...

"No-Yoshi" intros are broken in every instance of vertical levels (Level Modes 7, 8, A and D), the FG doesn't appear at all, and it gets replaced by a row of question blocks. This applies to all Indexes with No-Yoshi intros (Castle, Ghost House and all Ropes).

Ah ok, I know what's causing that. Thanks, it'll be fixed for the next version.

I remember that when you placed custom sprites in a level (extra bit 2 or 3) without those sprites actually being inserted, they would crash the game when playing. With LM 3.0 (?) they no longer crash, falling back to standard sprites instead. Just curious here... does LM 3.0 make any changes to the custom sprite system that would explain that, or is this caused by something unrelated? We do have the new extra-bit-using goal tapes so it doesn't seem that far out, but it'd be nice to have official confirmation.

And unless I'm misinterpreting, here's another minor issue unrelated to the new version:
Saving level C5 using the "Display level message 1" sprite without the fix installed doesn't trigger a warning, but importing it through the "Import multiple levels from files" option does. Looks like the latter is an oversight?

Originally posted by WhiteYoshiEgg

I remember that when you placed custom sprites in a level (extra bit 2 or 3) without those sprites actually being inserted, they would crash the game when playing. With LM 3.0 (?) they no longer crash, falling back to standard sprites instead. Just curious here... does LM 3.0 make any changes to the custom sprite system that would explain that, or is this caused by something unrelated? We do have the new extra-bit-using goal tapes so it doesn't seem that far out, but it'd be nice to have official confirmation.

Well you'll notice that even without using a sprite tool, sprites that wouldn't show up before with extra bits set now do, but it'd be best to ask Vitor if you want more details.

Originally posted by WhiteYoshiEgg

And unless I'm misinterpreting, here's another minor issue unrelated to the new version:
Saving level C5 using the "Display level message 1" sprite without the fix installed doesn't trigger a warning, but importing it through the "Import multiple levels from files" option does. Looks like the latter is an oversight?

Yes, looks like the new level number wasn't being set quite early enough so the check was being run when it shouldn't. Thanks, that'll be cleared up in the next version.

Not sure if this has been answered somewhere else or if I'm just missing something obvious when I ask this but since we can effectively use horizontal level modes to shape the level however we want, is there a point to ever using the vertical level modes now? I would gladly welcome that considering the weird oddities of vertical level modes and the headaches they've given me when coding stuff.

I think someone else asked me about that as well but I forgot which who was... The only advantage to using real vertical levels is the sprite cacher/accelerator that takes in consideration the vertical screens (so speedup is warranted if there's over than, uh, 60 sprites on a regular ROM) and the different behavior on certain sprites (like the goal sphere not making the player walk at all for obvious reasons). Of course the latter you can adapt, while the former not really due of how sprite data is sorted.

Of course, if you have smart sprite spawn enabled, you will only have a real performance gain during scrolling (which pushes a bit of CPU as well by smkdan's patch).

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I've been reading up on this tool. Is there anything I should be made aware of before beginning a new hack?

Are there any remaining compatibility issues with custom sprite tools, blocks, music, patches or other resources on this site?

I'll be using SA-1 and cramming a lot of stuff into the game. I don't have a base ROM yet, so when I put my ideas into practice it will be starting a fresh.