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Influx of low quality hacks.
Forum Index - SMW Hacking - SMW Hacking Discussion - Influx of low quality hacks.
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I dont know if anybody else has noticed this, but it seems like there's just a ton of more low quality hacks being submitted than there was years ago. I had a gap of a couple years of not being interested in smw hacking, so maybe my taste could have just gotten better or something in between. I'd look at hacks being played on Self-made-island, since he seems to play a lot of recent ones, and they just seem really.. ehhh. Maybe it's because of popular streamers, and hacks getting attention through things like ADGQ where they have hacks featured, letting more inexperienced people in. eh, I dunno. maybe I'm just bein a negative nancy, or learning a bit about what makes good level design has sorta changed how I view a lot of these hacks.
It is to the hack moderators whether or not a hack is good or bad in level design and quality. I wouldn't think that most of the recent hacks are low quality for this reason, unless they're getting lots of rejections as of lately. I wouldn't know exactly, but then again, it's a matter of opinion.
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Originally posted by Romano338
But who are you to judge?


I think what yev-san means is why there seems be a large influx in more "generic" hacks.
They are completely fine and playable but they do not stray or change much about the original SMW formula.



Looking at the titles of these hacks alone only one of them has me interested in checking it out.
I've seen a lot of hacks recently that are peoples first hacks so they are just learning the ropes with hacking.

There is nothing inherently wrong with this but like I said previously they play it safe and with that comes the issues of blending in with a large amount of similar and simple hacks.
I agree with what yev-san has commented on and with that said I don't know what kind of "solution" could be made to tackle the issue.
Originally posted by Giftshaven
It is to the hack moderators whether or not a hack is good or bad in level design and quality.

I think we have the ability of opinions too actually

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Very very very shortly, this drab, workaday world and everything in it will be changed forever! Follow us into the golden country, into the empire of the senseless!
SMW Central always had an influx of low quality hacks across the different standards of hack moderation. Hell even the hacks that are accepted in the database need not be high quality, they just need to be functional in terms of not being completely unplayable with regards to level design/asm usage (and that has always been a constant since the times in 2007).

Originally posted by "1UPDudes"
There is nothing inherently wrong with this but like I said previously they play it safe and with that comes the issues of blending in with a large amount of similar and simple hacks.
I agree with what yev-san has commented on and with that said I don't know what kind of "solution" could be made to tackle the issue.


The solution is for people to actually take creative risks in their hack in a way that is unique and memorable in identity. And no, its not just level design but also on how the individual parts make the whole. No wonder why Brutal Mario, TSRP(R), Super Mario Omega, VIP series, ASMT, and JUMP are still played and talked about on the Internet, regardless if those hacks are bad, they at least had creative identity going for them.

There is also plenty of gems within the hack section buried under the junk and it would help that you actually discover them and give it the attention they need.

BTW I talked about a similar thing last night which I want featured hacks be their own section if because that can also help people to make better quality hacks.

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On Pixel Art Requests: I generally do not accept work unless I either have the time, if I see your project worth my time to contribute towards, and that is usually me doing the approaching to you on that.
-I also do not accept speculative work as I do have various art I made on-hand with me.
-I am more receptive to equivalent exchange of resources in which case, you can DM me wherever I have an active presence on for the details.
-Other times I'm availible for your project is C3 request threads I may run.




Hm. If think they all suck, make your own. Problem solved.
Originally posted by zacmario
Hm. If think they all suck, make your own. Problem solved.


What if what you make also sucks? You are just adding on to the piles of junk at that point. Also what you consider to be good may not be to others and even then opinion changes as one's hack age over time.

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On Pixel Art Requests: I generally do not accept work unless I either have the time, if I see your project worth my time to contribute towards, and that is usually me doing the approaching to you on that.
-I also do not accept speculative work as I do have various art I made on-hand with me.
-I am more receptive to equivalent exchange of resources in which case, you can DM me wherever I have an active presence on for the details.
-Other times I'm availible for your project is C3 request threads I may run.




It takes a lot less time and a lot less effort to make a, and I quote, low quality hack, hence why a lot more of the subject comes out compared to higher quality ones.

High quality hacks take close to a year to perhaps even four if an individual is working on his/her own. The exception seems to be collaboration hacks where a lot of people work together, the most successful ones having good communication and team work.

And even then, individual works can be considered "team worked" hacks due to the contributions of others, whether private or downloaded on the section.

A portion (no set number) of the seasoned SMW Hackers have pretty much moved on, which is another contributing factor as to why the number has gone down for hacks like TSRP and what not, so it's up to the new hackers to stick with this hobby and gain experience, sooner or later producing their own well perceived work.
Originally posted by StrikeForcer
Originally posted by zacmario
Hm. If think they all suck, make your own. Problem solved.


What if what you make also sucks? You are just adding on to the piles of junk at that point. Also what you consider to be good may not be to others and even then opinion changes as one's hack age over time.

Then why would you complain? If you think other content is lack-luster, it's actually great motivation to make something better. For instance I find alot of hacks to difficult, so I decided to make my own . Not saying the other hacks arnt better, because many are. But I make is fun for me, if others like it great, if not so be it.
Not one single hack will always be liked by all.
I'm not sure what you mean by hacks aging, they all do that. Unless of course you have a time machine?
It's not because the name of a hack is "generic" that it's a bad hack. The list posted previously, I've seen a few, those are good hacks, well polished and built. Storks Ape and Crocodile is just made by Morsel, who is quite a romhacker. Sheffy World is polished, and Hark Bros too. I've seen Dode World, I can't remember everything but I think it's was good too.
Plus, generic doesn't mean anything. People use it to describe something they don't like. But it's not because you don't like something that's it's not good, or "low quality".

I think it's pretty easy to trash hacks, calling them "low quality". Some hacks look like they haven't been worked on a lot. But quite a few are quite polished, espeially lately I think (although I mostly talk about kaizos and higher difficulty ones). Also I think new people are "coming onto the hack scene" and they are learning.
I just don't like people coming in here to say "those hacks are trash". That's weak. Nobody forces you to play them, watch them, download them.

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Super Mario Pants World
Luigi's Lost Levels
New Super Mario Pants World
VLDC12 - 72HoKaizo#1
Originally posted by Romano338
It's not because the name of a hack is "generic" that it's a bad hack. The list posted previously, I've seen a few, those are good hacks, well polished and built. Storks Ape and Crocodile is just made by Morsel, who is quite a romhacker. Sheffy World is polished, and Hark Bros too. I've seen Dode World, I can't remember everything but I think it's was good too.
Plus, generic doesn't mean anything. People use it to describe something they don't like. But it's not because you don't like something that's it's not good, or "low quality".

I think it's pretty easy to trash hacks, calling them "low quality". Some hacks look like they haven't been worked on a lot. But quite a few are quite polished, espeially lately I think (although I mostly talk about kaizos and higher difficulty ones). Also I think new people are "coming onto the hack scene" and they are learning.
I just don't like people coming in here to say "those hacks are trash". That's weak. Nobody forces you to play them, watch them, download them.


To clarify I never stated any of the hacks in the list I posted were bad.
I was just commenting on the fact that their names are pretty unoriginal which like you said has nothing to do with how they play or how well they are made.
The point was that from a first glance they just all blend together.



When I and others use the word "generic" it is not to trash or insult hacks.
Its to say they share a lot of common elements such as the graphics used and even the naming themes.

I think the initially point of this thread was to comment on how common short little hacks are and not to say they are necessarily low quality.
It is to say that they are common which is another way you can address something been generic.
Probably because theres lots of kaizo hacks going on lately, and many people are not too found of this style of hack. Specially to the point of evaluating what make this kind of hack have low or high quality.

About hacks in general i think this is pretty much a perception thing. As time goes by new hacks set a new standard for presentation/level design. If you take the Vldc compilation as an exemple, its easy to see how level design/presentation changed over the years. We just get used by the new standards/techs and start to expect it from hacks.
Something similar can be said about hacks that blew my mind some time ago and nowdays are just "meh" to me.
It's just the boom of kaizo hacks

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they say... i forgot
Speaking of which, there also seems to be an influx of Kaizo light hacks named after Twitch speedrunners.

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Legacy custom music


How am I so creative? I think taking walks might have something to do with it.
Every single level I will ever make in SMM2 will be easier than Ultra Necrozma.
Mario maker has died down on twitch and everyone is moving into romhacks now. A lot of these are peoples first hacks... and yeah i am getting tired of all the "super <name> world" .... even though i probably helped start it....

Tool-less kaizo has exploded in popularity recently. Which is great. I think inspiration is fine but I always try to encourage people to try to come up with their own ideas and break free of the kaizo norm, because every hack i play doesnt need an ultra star or a 50 shell jump level.
Originally posted by zacmario
Hm. If think they all suck, make your own. Problem solved.

No, never use this argument, it is both unecessarily snarky and wrong and I'm surprised people stick to it so often. It's like telling someone who thinks today's pop music is boring to make a band and do better, or telling someone they should learn cooking if they don't like someone's food. You don't need to dominate something to criticise it. Not food, music, any kind of art, anything.


Personally I thought I was also not feeling it with any of the more recent hacks, but I realised I just got bored of hacking in general. I don't think the quality of hacks has changed for the worse over the years, I think it's our standards over the years that change instead. I know back then it was much easier for me to enjoy anybody's brain juice hack with the same Nintendo-wannabe formula cause the idea of making your own game on SMW was just so new and fresh and cool to me.
My taste has more recently moved to the thoughtful design and innovative vanilla exploits that are characteristic from JUMP, but there's not a lot of that around and most people can't pull that style off well. [I think that especially after watching the overly perfectionist phase JUMPhalf is going through in its development lol] I also haven't grown too huge on the "one single way to pull an obstacle off and lots of reset doors" part of that design school, which is a pretty significant portion of it now, so yeah...
Originally posted by zacmario
Then why would you complain? If you think other content is lack-luster, it's actually great motivation to make something better. For instance I find alot of hacks to difficult, so I decided to make my own .

Well, you can in fact make something "better" that you yourself can enjoy developing, but never ever think your hack is better than others just because they "suck". You cannot change people's skills on a whim. And as you said, if they like it, good for them. If they don't, it's their opinion and also their choice to pick another hack.


You (OP) may have a point, but what StrikeForcer said is also correct. As many people mentioned, our standards change with time, and seeing the large influx of hacks like the ones we're receiving is nothing new, especially since the "Super [insert name] World" trend has exploded among speedrunners. Even though these names are pretty boring at this point. It's not easy to make a high quality hack, it requires a lot of effort, and it may or may not result in what you were going for (and to the point of somehow changing our standards [ala JUMP], but I don't think that's gonna happen very soon).

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Twitter
I probley shouldn't post on here much, as I'm often misunderstood.
I didn't mean to sound snarky, but it kinda did. Just trying to motivate the user, I have a hunch we will see something good from them someday.
I don't think my hacks are better or worse then anyone elses. I do have more fun with my hacks as they are tailored for me though.
However honestly come to think of it much of the recent hacks have not gotten my attention either.
Originally posted by zacmario
I do have more fun with my hacks as they are tailored for me though.
I think that goes without saying for everybody who hacks, there will always be a personal bias towards your own creations.
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