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The State of Things.tm.asar

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so people keep yapping on about how smw hacking is dying, etc, and so on and so forth. they might blame mario maker (lol), or kieran's snafu, or something. the main issue is saturation. i have said this before in another thread, and im gonna repeat it: vanilla alone cannot sell SMW hacking. that is not its forte. its cool and all how you can make awesome levels that surpass nintendo quality using only lumbar magic, but thats not gonna garner an audience. we need things that cause IMPACT.

ive made fun of smwc having a pr team before. however, i believe they can really serve a vital purpose here. what are they doing right now? afaik its only 1 dude running twitter and thats it; the yt channel is dead af kiddo. they (pr team, emphasis on TEAM it should be a crapton of people) can essentially serve as a marketing team; marketing hacks and stuff to a wider community and thus marketing smw hacking as a whole. you actually dont need a pr team for this now that i think of it; just people on the site dedicated to that task. its just that having them on staff means you can force them to do the job. thus we need good leadership and admins able to get people to do stuff

now... you cant just market everything. you need to sell quality. "here are our hacks of the day/week!" <- no. sell the best of the best. RESELL OLD STUFF. this is where we failed before. like i said earlier: we need to be racist. we need to market the chocolate stuff over the vanilla ones, not because theyre better, but because they have greater marketing potential. and this is where YOU the hacker comes in. MAKE COOLER SHIT. dont just think about yourself; think about the wider field. things like sicari are on the right track, and if we were in a better spot that hack couldve caused waves (not just sicari; im too out of the loop to name other hacks)

yeah thats it. im tired of hearing people complaining and not enough action being taken. in a sense im just a messenger


also it would really help if lm wasnt our ceiling
Originally posted by Ladida
and this is where YOU the hacker comes in. MAKE COOLER SHIT. dont just think about yourself; think about the wider field.


This basically defeats the entire purpose of SMW hacking as a hobby, though. If I do it just to bait some people to the site, then I'm no longer doing it for myself and thus no longer as a hobby, but as a job, and at that point, I'd probably prefer to just drop out of SMW hacking entirely. Above all else, hobbyists do stuff for themselves, not for other people - but if other people just so happen to enjoy their stuff as well, that's just a plus, and when someone makes a hack that they themselves would love to play, chances are other people are also going to find some enjoyment in it.
Feel free to visit my website/blog - it's updated rarely, but it looks pretty cool!
Originally posted by RPG Hacker
Above all else, hobbyists do stuff for themselves, not for other people

Many people actually create something with the main goal being entertainment for others. Of course you should always prioritize your own enjoyment of the actual creation progress. Otherwise you could always play the billions of hacks available.


On another note:
About the PR stuff. I had a little talk with FPZero in early april when I got added to Youtube PR-Team (yeah that was a thing but it was never announced or anything iirc so whatev) and I could prolly do some stuff but I still gotta get all the programs I got from school running.
And I also had in mind that editing some resources a bit might be a good idea but that requires arrangement and work and motivation
help
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Originally posted by RPG Hacker
Originally posted by Ladida
and this is where YOU the hacker comes in. MAKE COOLER SHIT. dont just think about yourself; think about the wider field.

Above all else, hobbyists do stuff for themselves, not for other people - but if other people just so happen to enjoy their stuff as well, that's just a plus, and when someone makes a hack that they themselves would love to play, chances are other people are also going to find some enjoyment in it.


The interesting thing is, when you do stuff for your own selfish and self-interested gain you actually are benefiting unintentionally the larger market out there by creating and modifying supply and demand. It is basically the Invisible Hand Theory that is at play here.

What Ladida said doesnt defeat the purpose of SMW hacking because it is the purpose, like it or not. There is a demand for creative projects that can potentially create the impact (much like BM did in the past) and the people who do make their hacks may as well be creating the demand for such works, intentionally or not.
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If people want things like Sicari, or other chocolate hacks, then their voices are not loud enough because a lot of the craze seems to be centered around Vanilla hacks.

As things are, Vanilla+ASM is where the market seems to be right now. Yes, there are some exceptions, but these things seem to be leading the direction. There are very few SMW Hackers who can actually get away with doing their own thing, and those are usually the big names like SNN, Worldpeace or FPI.

If you're not making the next big thing or something like JUMP, you may as well sit yourself out. If you're new to SMW Hacking, yeah, you can get behind the craze easily, but if you've been around for a while, you'll find that more difficult than it seems.

Anybody remember A E S T H E T I C, and the whole "Design over Decoration" craze during the VLDCX days? Yeah, I have reason to believe that is part of the reason where this has lead us, because man was that shoved down our throats.
I hesitate to blame any particular trend or attitude. Do remember that people have been hacking SMW for like 20 years now. It can't last forever.

That said, I also hesitate to say it's dying. People have been saying that forever too. Maybe the community is shrinking, maybe not, but I expect there to be a few hobbyists around for quite some time.


One thing I may actually say is reducing participation is the growing ease of making one's own video games elsewhere. Lunar Magic's user friendliness and SMW's readily made assets were a huge draw back in the day, before Unity, before Game Maker. Now due to the massive number of tools and their various versions, and of course the push for higher and higher sophistication, it's hard to call hacking SMW to be easy to jump into anymore, especially compared to the large and growing number of user friendly game engines.
Not to sound like a douche, but looking at this completely objectively here, who's to say that SMW hacking "dying" is inherently a bad thing in the first place? I'm not necessarily saying it's a good thing either, mind you, but it's not like this is a serious industry that people make money off of and whose jobs rest on this being active.

Actually, most of the talk I've seen from people despondent over this issue seem to be referring to the community itself dying (i.e. old members leaving the site) more-so than over hacks being made less often. Perhaps that's a little bit of a generalization, but it's what I've observed nonetheless (and I've seen people talk about this a lot).


I agree with RPG Hacker that this is just a hobby and really shouldn't be taken super seriously as a whole lot more. Remember that a hack of Super Mario World still isn't really your own creation (at the very least, you can't call it your own "game" anyway), even if you edit all the levels and insert some ExGFX. I'm not really surprised that people interested in genuine game design are gravitating toward .. actually making their own games.
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I always feel a lil selfish when I say this cause I'm basing it on my own experience and not much else, but I just thought people collectively lost interest in hacking. Most of us who are active around here have been doing it for years and I feel it's none but natural to lose the drive at some point

If you still like it keep doing it, but looking for ways to drag more people in, especially when these ways rely on the creative skills of the mass, seems like something silly to invest in. The only thing you can do is really... make contests, so the people who are looking for reasons to make stuff will make stuff. And the people who lost interest, well, they lost interest.
It's easily the best thing I've done
So why the empty numb?
Just want to pop in here and say sorry that the YT channel has been dead lately. We lost some of our content when Dan stepped down since he was doing the Greatest Hits and Content Spotlight videos. Additionally, I've been extremely busy with college this semester, meaning I haven't really had time to devote to the channel or podcast like I want to. My semester and all its associated projects are coming to an end though, and I should be able to start making content for it again. I have plans to possibly livestream my CLDC judging (which has also been delayed thanks to schoolwork) on the YT channel so we can a little bit of new stuff going. Tob has also joined the PR team to help with youtube, but I never really got a chance to walk him through everything before becoming super busy. That's something else I hope to address soon.
I really like some of the content that is on the YT channel actually, including the coolest hits and some of the live streams. As a user who has only been here for nearly 4 months making ports and hanging around on CaffieCraft, it kind of irritates me that I'm hearing things about the community becoming quiet, or that everyone's too busy and what not on the PR team. I'm only annoyed by this because it feels like I'm "missing out" on what makes this place fun. I haven't been here for as long as most people here... but then that could explain why I'm not really feeling bored of it.

Also, if content for the YT channel was lost because Dan stepped down, doesn't that mean he could still have it?
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I don't mean lost as in he lost the raw videos or anything, I meant lost in that he was the only one making those videos, so we lost out on a regular source of channel content. We'll have to come up with new ways to make them ourselves in his absence.
Originally posted by RPG Hacker
This basically defeats the entire purpose of SMW hacking as a hobby, though. If I do it just to bait some people to the site, then I'm no longer doing it for myself and thus no longer as a hobby, but as a job, and at that point, I'd probably prefer to just drop out of SMW hacking entirely. Above all else, hobbyists do stuff for themselves, not for other people - but if other people just so happen to enjoy their stuff as well, that's just a plus, and when someone makes a hack that they themselves would love to play, chances are other people are also going to find some enjoyment in it.

im not saying everyone has to do it. notice where i posted this; not in the smw hacking forums where its more relevant, but in general discussion, where the community hangs around. because here:s the thing. yes, its a hobby to some (most?). but its also more than that to others. if it was just a hobby, then why bother having a whole forum? just have the resources, a lil help desk, and thats it.

those that are just in for the hobby are not part of the equation. this thread, and this discussion, is not for them. im telling the people that actually care that things need to happen. they're the ones that matter here, and they're the ones not doing anything.

Originally posted by K.T.B.
Actually, most of the talk I've seen from people despondent over this issue seem to be referring to the community itself dying (i.e. old members leaving the site) more-so than over hacks being made less often. Perhaps that's a little bit of a generalization, but it's what I've observed nonetheless (and I've seen people talk about this a lot).

i kinda touched upon it above but the "community" is very important, because they are the most likely to innovate and create content. so old farts leaving is more or less relevant to this

Originally posted by Koopster
make contests

contests are memes. just a temporary solution (not like many participate in anything minus the major ones)
I feel like this is just a natural progression moreso than a lack of effort from hackers themselves.

We've squeezed SMW dry for all its worth. There isn't really anything amazing that can be done that hasn't already been done in some form or capacity.

With that being said, the hobby of SMW hacking in itself will never be dead so long as the site remains and continues to host all of the resources.
Originally posted by Ladida
because here:s the thing. yes, its a hobby to some (most?). but its also more than that to others. if it was just a hobby, then why bother having a whole forum? just have the resources, a lil help desk, and thats it.


I don't think this has to be a contradiction. If something is a hobby for you, you like to share it with other people, so you like to attract new people, that's why you make a larger forum since it potentially attracts more people. This doesn't mean that attracting people is the main reason for doing your hobby - you still do it mainly for yourself, not to get other people into it.
Feel free to visit my website/blog - it's updated rarely, but it looks pretty cool!
I think a lot of people just hack for good feedback, I don't know how up to date this view is since the SS&V thread is basically dead compared to how flooded it used to be.

We would probably have a lot more unique projects if people made hacks that they didn't feel like they needed feedback on to keep themselves going.

I noticed this when I started working on 'the. I suddenly didn't feel like I had to show anything off, I felt like even if I ended up never showing the hack to anyone I would still be happy having just worked on it and having it for myself.

Extrinsically motivated hacks will generally tend to be samey and play it safe, intrinsically motivated hacks will be more likely to break the mold and be truly unique.
let it die!
This has probably been said before, but lots of ideas being put into practice already + many old members fading to the background or entirely leaving + a split in the community ideals= a site that's still gonna be alive for quite a while, but not as in the good old days.
Originally posted by idol
let it die!

this
If people would like to see more hacks that actually have an impact then I can't help but wonder why we aren't seeing more collaborations.

When you look at something like Extra Mario World or 'the or even VLDC9's overworld it's clear that there are plenty of talented people on this site but most of them are simply content to stick to themselves.
The thing about collaborations is that you've got to have strong leadership behind it, and people with strong wills to work on the project. If one limb lags behind, or basically doesn't feel like working or demotivated, the whole project will fall apart. Why else is SMWCP2 in the state it's been in for the last few years now.

I can see teams of five working on a hack at some point, but collaborations are usually only successful when all the members are strong, not carrying others, instead carrying each other.

Originally posted by Gregor
it's clear that there are plenty of talented people on this site but most of them are simply content to stick to themselves.
Because sometimes the only person you can count on is yourself.
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