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Nachos and Fried Oreos
Forum Index - SMW Hacking - Full Hack Releases - Nachos and Fried Oreos
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Hey everyone!

Nachos and Fried Oreos is officially submitted! Created by MiracleWater and myself, this is a 15 exit, very-hard platforming hack with a unique life-based gimmick! The submitted version is also v1.2, so if you are using the C3 version, make sure to use the version submitted on SMWC.



If you haven't played the hack before, here's a bit of information about it from the release thread!

Originally posted by MiracleWater
Nachos and Fried Oreos is a 15-exit "vanilla with ASM sprinkles" hack. The levels are short and sweet with a focus on action-packed platforming (inspired by the Japanese style of hacking). However, this hack is not your typical platformer. In Nachos and Fried Oreos, a game-over is truly a game-over! If you lose all your lives, your save file is deleted and you must start from the beginning.

The game includes 4 difficulties that determine the amount of lives you will start with. In addition, every level has 5 dragon coins and a moon. Collecting them will grant you a different reward based on your difficulty.

If you are a casual player and you would never touch a "hard" or "very-hard" hack, that's okay! That's exactly why we have created beginner mode. On this difficulty, you will be given infinite lives and can enjoy the hack at your leisure. Still, be aware that this hack is pretty tricky, even on beginner mode. If you are a more advanced player and love the adrenaline and excitement of beating a challenging segment, then playing on advanced/expert/master is for you!


Incompatibility notice! This hack has been known to crash on both the SNES Classic and the Super Famicom. Play at your own risk.


If you have played the hack already, we would love to hear about your experiences with it, good or bad. Since this isn't an "official release thread" or anything, I'll take the time to go more in-depth into the hack here, and perhaps provide a bit of backstory for this hack's creation. If you aren't really interested in this hack, you can just skip this next part. However, if you are interested in hearing more about it, read on. You'll get some backstory for the hack, as well as my incoherent musings on hacking.

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The idea for Nachos and Fried Oreos emerged from a few different events at once. One of these was lolyoshi mentioning a video of him trying to see how far he could progress in The Depraved Stronghold on 1 life. A bit earlier than that, ft029 and cozyduck were discussing Colossus and how the absurdly long levels created an immense feeling of satisfaction when beating them - a satisfaction that (to them) was often even greater than beating a Kaizo level. These ideas interested me because I had never thought of them before. I was also inspired by levelengine's hacks, jolpe and lolyoshi's levels in JUMP, Not So Sadistic Mario, and some of Morsel's works.

At around the same time, MiracleWater was talking about how he had many level ideas, but struggled to make an entire completed hack. I felt the same way; my last released hack was in early 2016, and I had struggled with making a completed hack by myself. We decided to team up and create Nachos.

The entire process of creating this hack was a learning experience. The entire time, we were both "outside of our comfort zones". MiracleWater and I were used to creating so called "JUMPy" stuff, so much that I didn't even know what it meant to design a "normal" level anymore. I had to take everything I knew about hacking and throw it out the window. I also had to knock myself off my high horse. I had to realize that I didn't know everything about design, and that I actually knew very little. It was a learning experience, but a good one.

As explained above, the entire premise behind Nachos is that you have limited lives. We hoped that, when playing the hack, there would be a sense of excitement and exhilaration when trying to beat the hack on limited lives. This, in theory, should come from the fact that you must tread carefully in every move. Because of this, we were basically forced to remove every aspect of trial and error. Think of something like Ninja Gaiden, or Ghosts n' Goblins, or even Pac-Man or Galaga. By playing on limited lives, the excitement increases as you progress through the game. In turn, the risk/reward of grabbing collectables shifts constantly as you progress through the game.

The issue with Super Mario World, and modern SMW hacking in general, is that it is not friendly towards this type of design. SMW is a casual game by heart, one that is designed incredibly well, but focuses on fun platforming, exploration-based maps, and finding neat hidden secrets. One of the obstacles we faced is that lives are essentially useless in SMW, and especially in modern SMW hacking. In case you have been living under a rock, nearly 90% of the hacks being released nowadays are Kaizo and make use of the instant retry patch. The instant retry is probably the most ubiquitous tool in modern SMW hacking besides Lunar Magic. Modern Kaizo is all about getting players into the action as fast as possible.

Another obstacle is that SMW could never be styled like a Roguelike without very high level ASM (to essentially randomize the enemies and layouts). Because of this, playing a Nachos level over and over might get stale. Funny enough, playing levels over and over is a cornerstone of modern SMW hacking; in Kaizo hacks like Invictus or Fly Me to the Stars, it's all about grinding out a level over and over until you master it. As a result, the retry prompt is essential and the average level has become shorter and shorter. The problem, however, is that Nachos has long levels and rewards you for not dying. This will definitely create some frustration with people, and for good reason. Hopefully though, some people will like this mechanic.

Finally, this brings me to my main point. This hack's creation was all about stepping out of our comfort zone. Just for some encouragement, to anyone else that is considering making a hack that is different than what you usually make, just do it. Don't be afraid about how people will react because hacking is about having fun. I used to have some incorrect ideas about what hacking is, but that has all changed. I realize now that if you are having fun and enjoying your hobby, you are doing just fine.

In the end, it was a super fun experience to make this hack with MiracleWater. Thanks to everyone who helped out with this hack, especially Lazy (who made the awesome overworlds and gave advice on music and stuff). In addition, cozyduck was very helpful in the early stages on giving advice for life amounts (and discussed the initial premise of the hack with me as well). Even though this is just a small little insignificant hack, it's been so much fun working on it. If you read all of this, than you are a nerd like me who cares way to much about hacking a 20+ year old game. Oh well lol
I'd like to give props to both of you guys, Gbreeze and MiracleWater, for creating Nachos and Fried Oreos. I posted a very long review over on the hack's page, which contains nearly all of my thoughts on this hack.

Though I've been even less active on SMWCentral over the past two or so years, I somehow caught wind of this hack's release, and I really enjoyed it! It's inspired me to take another look into the SMW hacking scene.

Also, I beat this hack on master difficulty a few hours ago. It was a tough but great experience overall, with only four lives to spare on the final level. As I said in my giant wall-of-text review, I'd love to see more hack authors take inspiration from this hack!

I definitely agree that limited lives makes the players second-guess everything. Sure, it can be annoying to replay everything all over again once you die, but I think you lose something if you just give players an infinite amount of chances. There's this "tension" that's lost with infinite lives. It's not a style everyone likes, but for me, I found out that I enjoy that kind of thing. You just have to make sure your game isn't too long, otherwise, the prospect of replaying everything is even more ugh-inducing. I'd say this hack strikes a good balance.

I'd write more, but I have to head out for the day.

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Originally posted by UTF
I'd write more, but I have to head out for the day.

Don't worry, you gave plenty of feedback on the hack's post and we very much appreciate it!

Thanks for trying out the hack, and especially taking on the hardest difficulty - I'm sure it was no easy feat. We have noticed that generally those who played the game on a non-infinite lives difficulty have enjoyed the hack more. And as you mentioned, the tension you feel as you progress in the hack really changes the dynamic of the game versus playing with infinite lives. Yeah, of course it's an intimidating thought to have to restart everything for getting a game-over, but our hope is that players of sufficient skill will push themselves with a harder difficulty, and as a result, have a more rewarding experience.

I really like your comparison of the hack to Ninja Gaiden and Battletoads. It's something I hadn't really thought of until you mentioned it, but Nachos does kind of have an arcade-y feel.

Anyways, if we ever feel there's enough content to update the game to v1.3, we'll take your suggestions on board. Though with the soft lock you mentioned in Iron Toss, can't you just jump into the muncher ceiling instead of running out the timer?

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Originally posted by MiracleWater
Originally posted by UTF
I'd write more, but I have to head out for the day.

Don't worry, you gave plenty of feedback on the hack's post and we very much appreciate it!

Thanks for trying out the hack, and especially taking on the hardest difficulty - I'm sure it was no easy feat. We have noticed that generally those who played the game on a non-infinite lives difficulty have enjoyed the hack more. And as you mentioned, the tension you feel as you progress in the hack really changes the dynamic of the game versus playing with infinite lives. Yeah, of course it's an intimidating thought to have to restart everything for getting a game-over, but our hope is that players of sufficient skill will push themselves with a harder difficulty, and as a result, have a more rewarding experience.

I really like your comparison of the hack to Ninja Gaiden and Battletoads. It's something I hadn't really thought of until you mentioned it, but Nachos does kind of have an arcade-y feel.

Anyways, if we ever feel there's enough content to update the game to v1.3, we'll take your suggestions on board. Though with the soft lock you mentioned in Iron Toss, can't you just jump into the muncher ceiling instead of running out the timer?

Ah man, you're right. Dying to the munchers is much faster. Somehow missed the most obvious solution.

I'll admit that I forgot exactly what I was going to type before heading out a few days ago, but you mentioned a v1.3. Now that I beat master mode, I'd say that my opinions on this hack's difficulty have changed a little bit. I'll go over a few things from my review, plus a few other things:

Putting a midpoint in Tower of Babel may or may not be a good idea. When I thought about it, I realize that you could almost consider the marathon nature of that level as its gimmick, like how endlessly falling/rising platforms is a level gimmick, or pogo Shy Guys is another level gimmick. Maybe that's a bit of a reach... Wait, maybe the gimmick is that the lower parts of the level disappear.

Putting a midpoint on Tower of Babel would weaken the long climb feeling of the level, but man, it probably would save a bit of frustration for some players. I guess it's your guys' call. Is there anyone else who would want a midpoint on Tower of Babel? For me, I'm pretty used to its difficulty and length by now, so I'm not sure if it's necessary, though I did have some trouble with that level when I played it for the first time. If a midpoint were to be added, I imagine it'd be placed at the 500m mark.

Iron Toss is still sort of a jump on the difficulty curve, and I think it's simply due to the innate difficulty of dealing with Hammer Bros. It would feel a little weird to see it made easier though. What would an easier version look like, anyway? My only idea was adding throw blocks/Koopas/Buzzy Beetles so players have another way to deal with Hammer Bros, but that seems like a pretty big change that require further modifications to the level layout. Also, I still would find a way to fix that softlock location.

The wind room in Heaven's Kitchen is still pretty rough, due to a general lack of wind block practice throughout the hack. I can't really think of an elegant solution to train players for it without making an entirely new level, so it might be best the way it is. It's a shame, because that room is really satisfying to play through when you get it down correctly, but it felt like one of the very few things in this hack that was difficult to play without some trial-and-error deaths. Maybe I always rush through it too much, or I'm just salty because that room caused my first game over. Did anyone else have trouble with it? Well, I guess it's in the final level for a reason! The next room was certainly easier.

A minor thing, but the fireball-spitting Piranha room in Heaven's Kitchen could use a big ol' A spelled out in coins at the part where you have to spin jump on a saw to keep moving forward.

Something I only recently noticed: The moon in El Pogo Loco is pretty easy to get! It might be a good idea to change the positions of the red Shy Guys patrolling the moon, so their timing becomes a little tighter.

Speaking of moons, this is more of an observation instead of a suggestion, but I noticed that a decent amount of moons can be easily acquired if the player has a mushroom and is willing to take a hit, since some of the moons are guarded by enemies instead of being near instant death zones. Enemy guarded moon examples are levels like Reelin' in the Blue, Party in the Pantry, El Pogo Loco, and Iron Toss. Outdoor Dining's moon is surrounded by black hurt blocks, though it can still be tanked like the enemy guarded moons. I guess this can be thought of as a reward for making it to the end while big?

Typically, having extra lives is more valuable than starting a new level with an extra hit, though this strategy is more effective on expert and advanced difficulty, where moons give more lives. Tower of Babel even starts you off with two mushrooms, so if you took a hit from getting the moon on ACME Explosions, it's a net gain (two mushrooms and lives) disguised as a risk! Well, I guess blind players wouldn't know that, and the timing for ACME Explosion's moon is still pretty tricky. I wonder what this hack's life balance would be like if most (or all) moons were placed near instant kill areas, so failure to get the moon always results in death?

Wow, I wrote a lot again. This post became a bit of a mess, but I'll post it regardless. Anyway, good luck to both you guys, MiracleWater and Gbreeze, on your future SMW hacking endeavors!

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