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Staff Sensitivity - Suicide
Forum Index - Donut Plains - General Discussion - Staff Sensitivity - Suicide
Pages: « 1 2 » Thread Closed
> This site has a SERIOUS sensitivity problem. <

Now I sent relatively this same message directly to Scrydan but I'm going to make this public right now because I wasn't CLEAR enough when I was BREAK DOWN SUICIDAL.

How dare someone make it seem like I would post something like that in a moment of weakness. In a moment of despair and anger. My deepest and darkest time I've ever been... for attention?

Let me tell you something. I've suffered from anxiety and depression my entire life and I've never once self harmed or thought hard about suicide but yesterday was the first time I ever did and let me tell you I came damn close.

Close enough that I made a new hole in my belt to wrap my neck. For attention? You should be ashamed. The reason I didn't provide any details was because I was distraught and lost and in a bad mental state. And couldn't put into words what I was feeling or what I was planning to do exactly. But now you know.

A LOT of you don't understand how depression works and how it effects the mind. How it can make you do stupid things in times of weakness. Sure maybe I should have explained more but I was in such a horrid mental state at the time that I just couldn't. To clarify, I don't give a damn about it being thrown in the trash. As a matter of fact I asked Scrydan to delete the thread entirely so HIS response would disappear.

The fact is I was an hour from ending my life. And I didn't. And just to come on and basically be accused of being an attention seeker really is a BB to the balls.
Actually, I understand how depression works. Your head is full of negative thoughts. If you really feel like that, you should see a doctor imo. There's no need to do what you tried to do.
You just need not to take everything seriously, of course, some stuff can be taken seriously, but if you want to be mentally better and happier, don't listen to destructive negative opinions, unless they are constructive. I can consider some comments made by others could have been harsh, but I can't give an opinion because I don't know much about what happened.
Anyway, I don't think you're looking for attention, you just need some mental break. Relax your mind and everything will be fine. Don't use Internet for a while if necessary, but these are just suggestions.
Another way to feel better is doing what you like: game speedruns for example.
You can improve this. Feel better soon.
First off, Scrydan screened his post in the staff Discord channel and I told him to post it. So this is also my fault, and I apologize.


You created a thread that literally just said you were thinking about committing suicide and nothing else, with no details or anything. You received an offer from N450 in the thread to talk about it in PM, which so far as I can tell you didn't take (unless you did so outside the site). And then you posted that you were fine, again with no details.

From the outside looking in, that thread did look at least partially motivated by attention. That may not be correct, but it *is* consistent with your recent post history. And from a moderator's perspective it doesn't matter *why* your thread lacks content, only that it does. It's worth noting that for whatever reason you didn't include the details in the first post, you didn't come back later to edit it in once you said you were fine.

None of this is to say you're lying. I don't believe you are. Honestly I think you should just... step away and take a break from SMWC for a while. Voluntarily. It's just not good for your mental health, and probably contributing to any issues you may have.


(P.S. Non-admins can't delete threads.)
N450 advise is good advise. I don't think is a good idea to generalise and say that the site has a sensivity problem. It doesn't feel right for all the people here or on discord that always try to help other users in their personal problems.

I think, as Scrydan said, that if you give us more details of what is happening in you live that's causing you such a bad mental state maybe we can help you.

Peace and love #smrpg{y}
That thread literally adds nothing to the site. It adds just as much content to the site as the flex meme thread that was recently closed just now. It's not Scrydan's fault for doing his job. (or Noivern's, for that matter) That thread needs more details. Why are you suicidal? What led you to being this way? That's what it boils down to.

If you're truly in such a destructive state, yet still have the time to post a thread like that, then you also have the time to go out and get help from an actual professional. They may not relate to you on an emotional level, sure, but it's a lot better than reading something some random person on the internet says. We're just people living our normal lives. We're not PhDs. So a doctor who actually has experience in that field would be of a lot more help than we would.

Arash
Extraordinaire of Farming Self-Sacrifice

I've got nothing interesting to add. Woe is me.
Scrolling past and noticed this thread. From an outsider perspective (I dont know what happened in the last thread), it does seem like all of the responses in this post are kind of against the OP in terms of the actions he's done, and are responses that are actually insensitive to a suicidal/depressed individual.

Since my absence from this website, I've had a wide range of experiences. One of those was being truly depressed and suicidal. I myself have had calls for attention to my friends and they shunned me for it. It seems that this situation is sorta similar, and has received some backlash.

Now, making posts for attention that have no substance is bad and you should try avoiding that OP and fight your suicidal thoughts as much as you can. Everyone else should be more understanding in some ways that sometimes the mind just needs to scream.

Originally posted by Falaflame
If you're truly in such a destructive state, yet still have the time to post a thread like that, then you also have the time to go out and get help from an actual professional. They may not relate to you on an emotional level, sure, but it's a lot better than reading something some random person on the internet says. We're just people living our normal lives. We're not PhDs. So a doctor who actually has experience in that field would be of a lot more help than we would.


We may not be doctors, but having someone to just talk to can help immensely. Adding onto that, a person being suicidal can have many reasons, and even if they're completely aware of what it is they cant just get rid of it.

---

If you guys see a thread that says "I'm about to kill myself", at least just try remedy the situation first before immediately accusing him of attention seeking (this is what I assume the previous thread was about). Of course it's attention seeking, we know this, the OP would know this. However, you're playing with the literal loss of a life, and you should treat that very carefully. It isn't as simple as "if we get rid of the thread the problem is gone".
Originally posted by Falaflame
That thread literally adds nothing to the site. It adds just as much content to the site as the flex meme thread that was recently closed just now. It's not Scrydan's fault for doing his job. (or Noivern's, for that matter) That thread needs more details. Why are you suicidal? What led you to being this way? That's what it boils down to.

If you're truly in such a destructive state, yet still have the time to post a thread like that, then you also have the time to go out and get help from an actual professional.

This demonstrates such level of ignorance regarding the mental health issue that is to have depression that I can't even. I do hope you're not one of those who say "you just need to be positive!". I mean, you honestly think that comparing their thread to the FLEX FANS thread was reasonable?
I'm not one to say you need to be positive, because it's not that easy. Depression is a serious issue, and I have several friends who suffer from it. One of them is my girlfriend. So before you call ignorance, no, I know how terrifying it is to go from being fine one moment, to becoming an utter wreck the next.

But what truly matters is, the thread contributed nothing, and the staff didn't have anything to apologize for. Sure, it may not have been handled perfectly (I personally would've dropped a reference to call for help or something because that's how sensitive the subject is), but it was handled well enough IMO.

If you want to agree to disagree, fair. Either way, I still stand by the comparison to the flex thread.

Arash
Extraordinaire of Farming Self-Sacrifice

I've got nothing interesting to add. Woe is me.
I'm a bit concerned with all of this seeing as while this discussion has been ongoing, Plasmodium themselves has not been online for 5 days... Despite his clear issues, I hope he's alright wherever he is.

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Originally posted by Minuy600
I'm a bit concerned with all of this seeing as while this discussion has eben ongoing, Plasmodium themselves has not been online for 5 days... Despite his clear issues, I hope he's alright wherever he is.

You know, I hadn't noticed that until just now. Hopefully he's getting the help he needs.

Arash
Extraordinaire of Farming Self-Sacrifice

I've got nothing interesting to add. Woe is me.
My problem is how the OP adamantly denies seeking attention with his previous thread. If there were no truth to the claim that he made that last thread for attention, he wouldn't be nearly as defensive as he was in this thread. If he did some self-reflection, realized "Hey yeah I was in a dark place and I made a kind of attention seeking thread" and apologized for that while still making it clear he's struggling, I'd be perfectly satisfied with that. I've been guilty of attention seeking when I've been in dark places myself so I can't necessarily blame him for doing so, the difference is I recognized I had a problem and did something about it. The OP has a history of pointing the finger at everyone but himself so threads like these make me roll my eyes.

As someone who's struggled with clinical depression for a few years (and had to be taken out of school and put in a mental health unit for a few days because of it), I think he has to start doing some self-reflection and actually put in an effort to change. Threads like this just demonstrate he's incapable of doing that right now, and frankly it gets tiresome. I feel like some of us (myself included) could probably be less hard on him and actually reach out to try and help him, but at the same time he has to be grounded in reality and know that this type of behavior isn't going to do him any good in the long run.

In any case, I do hope he's alright. As much as he frustrates me sometimes I really do hope he gets better.

Originally posted by mockingod
From an outsider perspective (I dont know what happened in the last thread), it does seem like all of the responses in this post are kind of against the OP in terms of the actions he's done, and are responses that are actually insensitive to a suicidal/depressed individual.


Context helps explain everyone's frustration. Not gonna unload the OP's dirty laundry in this thread, but if you dig enough you'll probably get a better picture.

Originally posted by mockingod
Everyone else should be more understanding in some ways that sometimes the mind just needs to scream.


I definitely feel like there's truth to this, but at the same time the OP doesn't exactly have the most positive history here and people have their limits.
Update on this issue.

I and other staff members weren't too happy with how this went down either. However, nobody presently on the staff team is a professional able to properly both understand and help with active suicide risks, which creates difficulty in how we deal with it.

Our current plan is to disallow suicide threads in reality corner, and implement a system (probably something baked into the site) to direct users posting suicide threads to help hotlines, etc. as well as recommending talking with trusted people in private about it.
Ultimately in a public thread the responses from staff (and users) are going to be very mixed and could have a net negative effect in such a volatile situation, something nobody posting can really tell in advance. While in your average reality corner thread, a mix of opinions can be filtered through by the op and discussed, when someone is thinking of committing suicide what is or isn't said can have a huge and immediate effect.
Because of this, our hope is that the planned changes will minimize the risk to suicidal users and help by directing them to people who will be able to properly help with their situation.


Of course, we'd like to know what you think of these changes to before we implement them.
Originally posted by Impetus
Update on this issue.

I and other staff members weren't too happy with how this went down either. However, nobody presently on the staff team is a professional able to properly both understand and help with active suicide risks, which creates difficulty in how we deal with it.

Our current plan is to disallow suicide threads in reality corner, and implement a system (probably something baked into the site) to direct users posting suicide threads to help hotlines, etc. as well as recommending talking with trusted people in private about it.
Ultimately in a public thread the responses from staff (and users) are going to be very mixed and could have a net negative effect in such a volatile situation, something nobody posting can really tell in advance. While in your average reality corner thread, a mix of opinions can be filtered through by the op and discussed, when someone is thinking of committing suicide what is or isn't said can have a huge and immediate effect.
Because of this, our hope is that the planned changes will minimize the risk to suicidal users and help by directing them to people who will be able to properly help with their situation.


Of course, we'd like to know what you think of these changes to before we implement them.


I think that system would work wonders. It would help the suicidal users get the help they need from someone who can actually provide it, and it would likely create less situations like this in the future. Because I'm going to be real, this was a no-win situation, for both the staff, and for the suicidal user themselves. The suicidal user doesn't get the help they need, and the staff can't provide the help they need even if they wanted to.

Arash
Extraordinaire of Farming Self-Sacrifice

I've got nothing interesting to add. Woe is me.
I'm 100% in support of these changes
Originally posted by Falaflame
But what truly matters is, the thread contributed nothing, and the staff didn't have anything to apologize for. Sure, it may not have been handled perfectly (I personally would've dropped a reference to call for help or something because that's how sensitive the subject is), but it was handled well enough IMO.

If that's how you feel, you should have done that to begin with, and regardless of whether the staff or anybody here has training and experience for dealing with suicidal individuals, that's quite literally the fucking least Scrydan and Noivern could have done, so don't run your mouth that they "have nothing to apologize for," even if it is your opinion. I fail to see how you think it was "handled well enough" when you just admitted you could have handled the situation better with a simple reference to the Suicide Hotline.

Also fuck your attempt to compare this issue to a meme thread, for real.

@Impetus: I support this idea as well.
Not everyone here is a licensed therapist or psychiatrist.

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Every single level I will ever make in SMM2 will be easier than Ultra Necrozma.
Originally posted by Impetus
Update on this issue.

I and other staff members weren't too happy with how this went down either. However, nobody presently on the staff team is a professional able to properly both understand and help with active suicide risks, which creates difficulty in how we deal with it.

Our current plan is to disallow suicide threads in reality corner, and implement a system (probably something baked into the site) to direct users posting suicide threads to help hotlines, etc. as well as recommending talking with trusted people in private about it.
Ultimately in a public thread the responses from staff (and users) are going to be very mixed and could have a net negative effect in such a volatile situation, something nobody posting can really tell in advance. While in your average reality corner thread, a mix of opinions can be filtered through by the op and discussed, when someone is thinking of committing suicide what is or isn't said can have a huge and immediate effect.
Because of this, our hope is that the planned changes will minimize the risk to suicidal users and help by directing them to people who will be able to properly help with their situation.


Of course, we'd like to know what you think of these changes to before we implement them.

Here’s my feedback as someone who:
-Is a certified psychologist and has profesional experience with sucidal people.
-Has dated someone with suicidal thoughts.
-Has suffered herself from suicidal ideation in the past.

I understand the idea behind this is to protect suicidal people from being exposed to negative responses that would just make their situations worse. This is a good start, but it needs to be improved.

Suicide hotlines change from country to country and not all of them can be trusted. Even those that can be trusted may not be enough to help a suicidal person because there's only so much a person over the phone can do. Many times, suicide hotlines refer their callers to mental health institutions where they can get the help they need. It would be best to simply tell them to look for professional help instead.

When you are at the border of suicide, you don't usually think rationally, you are oversensitive and you can make things bigger than they really are. A suicidal person making a thread is looking for help (not attention) and if they receive and automated response telling them to look for help, they might see it as "we don't care about your problems" or even worse "nobody cares about your problems". If you're going to do that, you need to be careful about how you word it to avoid giving people more reasons to kill themselves.

Finally, here are some tips to talk to a suicidal person. Take in mind knowing this won't automatically make you a therapist, but it can help if you ever meet someone with suicidal thoughts. You can use this for suicidal threads here or otherwise.

1. Don't judge, in any way - this will make them feel misunderstood and you can give them more reasons to kill themselves.
2. Don't minimize their feelings - again this will make them feel misunderstood. Don't say things like "it's not that bad" or "think positive".
3. Make them feel you are worried and care about them - this can help more than you think.
4. If you don't know what to say stay silent - saying nothing is always better than saying something harmful.
Originally posted by Ice Kirby
If that's how you feel, you should have done that to begin with, and regardless of whether the staff or anybody here has training and experience for dealing with suicidal individuals, that's quite literally the fucking least Scrydan and Noivern could have done, so don't run your mouth that they "have nothing to apologize for," even if it is your opinion. I fail to see how you think it was "handled well enough" when you just admitted you could have handled the situation better with a simple reference to the Suicide Hotline.


The thread was closed before Falaflame could have done anything so lol. I don't know if you've been paying attention to this user at all, but Roto-Disco has been causing the community trouble for months now, constantly starting fights with other users and attacking people for no legitimate reason (e.g. Shitting on Ryaa for the VLDC11 judging miscalculations because "he's new to judging therefore it's all his fault and he's an idiot"). I've given Roto the benefit of the doubt and assume that he either doesn't intend to come across the way he does, or because he's struggling so much in the real world he takes it out on people online, which is something I've been guilty of doing in the real world and ON THIS VERY SITE. That said, however, after a user repeatedly shits on others and is constantly in hot water for good reason, blames the users for him feeling suicidal (source), and then makes a thread talking about wanting to kill himself, it's pretty easy to assume it's just an attention ploy. Frankly I do still think it's an attention play, but more in the sense that he made that thread as a desperate cry for help because seemingly no one is offering him any emotional support. I've been there and done that, and seen it time and time again in the real world and online.

Quite frankly I think the staff were handling the situation as they would any other user with a problematic history making threads like that. If nambona890 or 2016/2017 era me made a thread like that, the staff would have handled in the exact same way and no one would have batted an eye. I don't really understand why this particular situation is causing the outrage it is. That's not to say it's wrong for people to worry about Roto or think that the situation could have been handled better, but there have been users in the past who've acted just like Roto who were (And in some cases still are) ostracized from the community completely. Why didn't people make a fuss then? Why was nothing done? Like I feel like I'm missing something here so I'm genuinely asking. If someone has an answer, please tell me.




On another note, for anyone worrying about Roto, I can confirm he's alive and seemingly doing okay. With some convincing I got him to add me back on Steam and we've been communicating there and on Discord. He plays a lot of TF2 so I haven't gotten much of a chance to talk to him.
Originally posted by Sokobansolver
Not everyone here is a licensed therapist or psychiatrist.

You aren't really wrong on that one, but people with depression should at least get some support like a simple conversation or something to make them feel better.
I'm not saying you aren't, but I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be happy with stuff such as "you don't have depression if you work" and "only crybaby people have depression". It's insensitive shit like this that convince them to kill themselves.

Glad to see the OP is apparently fine by the way.
Originally posted by Decoy Blimp
post

Alright I'm gonna have to stop you right there, chief. I specifically asked Decoy Blimp to delete this post because it's full of disinformation and slanders a user who is A) Suicidal and B) not around. So I figured I'd set the record straight since he's refused to do what I've asked of him.

Originally posted by Decoy Blimp
The thread was closed before Falaflame could have done anything so lol.

It may have been closed before he could do anything, but FalaFlame went on to compare my suicide thread to a meme thread which in and of itself is immensely hurtful and speaks to a larger issue of non-understanding regarding depression. He very easily could have said what Ice Kirby said in a later post but he didn't.

Originally posted by Decoy Blimp
but Roto-Disco has been causing the community trouble for months now

Isn't it great when you have that one user who refuses to let the past remain the past so someone actually has a chance to heal the wounds they've created?

Originally posted by Decoy Blimp
constantly starting fights with other users and attacking people for no legitimate reason (e.g. Shitting on Ryaa for the VLDC11 judging miscalculations because "he's new to judging therefore it's all his fault and he's an idiot").

First of all you're full of shit. That's the most broad generalization of that whole debacle I could possibly imagine and it shows to me that you're only trying to make me look bad. Not an exact quote, but you still put it in quotes (showing your immaturity, and lack of knowledge in grammar), and the fact is, I said something along the lines of 'Ryaa is new to judging, so if he made a mistake I'm not surprised.' It's true that I could have been more gracious and nicer in what I had said and I apologize but I Never said that he was an idiot. Those words never came out of my mouth and how dare you accuse me of sinking that low and spreading that fake news around. It's as simple as looking it up, people. And not taking it at this guy's word.

Originally posted by Decoy Blimp
That said, however, after a user repeatedly shits on others and is constantly in hot water for good reason, blames the users for him feeling suicidal (source)

The statement "repeatedly shitting on others" is a major overstatement and I'm sure there are many that would back me up on this. I've been trying to make up for my past and I am a hot button guy that finds it hard not to speak up when he feels like he's being treated wrongly, and I'm sorry for overdoing it, but this again, is another instance of not letting wounds just heal naturally. I didn't outright blame anyone for making me feel suicidal, but all of the negative comments were certainly CONTRIBUTING to my suicidal ideation, and I'm sure it would be the same way for any severely depressed individual.

Quote
Frankly I do still think it's an attention play, but more in the sense that he made that thread as a desperate cry for help because seemingly no one is offering him any emotional support.

You can't call it an attention "play" and then go on to to justfy it by saying that you believe I did it for good reason. By saying 'play' you're proving you don't believe a single word coming out of my mouth. Which is fine. You can't make someone believe you. But often times that's what gets the mentally ill killed.

Originally posted by Decoy Blimp
Quite frankly I think the staff were handling the situation as they would any other user with a problematic history making threads like that. If nambona890 or 2016/2017 era me made a thread like that, the staff would have handled in the exact same way and no one would have batted an eye. I don't really understand why this particular situation is causing the outrage it is. That's not to say it's wrong for people to worry about Roto or think that the situation could have been handled better, but there have been users in the past who've acted just like Roto who were (And in some cases still are) ostracized from the community completely. Why didn't people make a fuss then? Why was nothing done? Like I feel like I'm missing something here so I'm genuinely asking. If someone has an answer, please tell me.

Are you really comparing me to nambona890? Really? This thread and his bullshit meme garbage are nothing alike. So don't act like you don't know why this is getting a serious discussion and those weren't. I've never acted anything remotely like that asshole so don't try to say I have. I wasn't even as bad as you were when you were brown banned twice so don't get me started, buddy.




I'll say here what I told Decoy directly. SMWCentral is growing as a community and I'm so proud to witness it. You guy are showing a willingness to change current policy to accommodate the niche few who are struggling with mental illness and who, in my case, show it in aggression sometimes due to the lack empathy of love and respect I am greeted with in the real world and I sincerely apologize.

I thank all of you for the attention this thread has gotten. I'm doing okay. I'm getting therapy and practicing bio-feedback techniques. But this still isn't the proper environment for me right now. I just needed to come on and make a few things perfectly clear.

I hope this thread can stay open and the discussions can continue.
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Forum Index - Donut Plains - General Discussion - Staff Sensitivity - Suicide

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